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Team Sky Discussion thread

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Re:

09 Sep 2017 17:08

Poursuivant wrote:I reckon Froome's Vuelta team was stronger that his Tour team, at least in the mountains.


It's funny, yes, Froome's team is strong and often the strongest on paper at the Tour at this Vuelta, but he rarely has everything go to plan. Thomas inevitably crashes or gets attempted-murdered by Barguil, and at least one of their team goes AWOL for an entire GT (Koenig and Kennaugh 2015 Tour, Henao 2017 Tour).

This Vuelta, you rarely saw Moscon do a long pull, then Lopez, then Rosa, then Nieve, then Poels, then Froome attack, which is the classic Skytrain tactic. Instead Moscon was, like Kwiatkowski at the Tour, performing better in the mountains than he was probably supposed to, Nieve and Poels essentially swapped their level after the second rest day (as you would expect when one did the Tour and the other hadn't), and they never had all of Nieve, Lopez, Rosa and Poels with Froome at the same time - which meant Moscon needed to be better than expected at climbing and maybe the Vuelta would have gone differently if he hadn't been. Two of the true climbers were always dropped when it mattered.

I suppose I'm trying to say, Sky throw 8 great helpers at their teams. The 2-3 flat/rouleur guys rarely put a foot wrong, but the 5-6 climbers are rarely all good at the same time.

1. you'd think Sky with all their alleged sports science would work out to have Poels AND Nieve AND Rosa AND Lopez being at their best level during the same three weeks.

2. if they do ever crack that formula imagine how scary they'll be.
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Re: Re:

09 Sep 2017 17:13

TMP402 wrote:
Poursuivant wrote:I reckon Froome's Vuelta team was stronger that his Tour team, at least in the mountains.


It's funny, yes, Froome's team is strong and often the strongest on paper at the Tour at this Vuelta, but he rarely has everything go to plan. Thomas inevitably crashes or gets attempted-murdered by Barguil, and at least one of their team goes AWOL for an entire GT (Koenig and Kennaugh 2015 Tour, Henao 2017 Tour).

This Vuelta, you rarely saw Moscon do a long pull, then Lopez, then Rosa, then Nieve, then Poels, then Froome attack, which is the classic Skytrain tactic. Instead Moscon was, like Kwiatkowski at the Tour, performing better in the mountains than he was probably supposed to, Nieve and Poels essentially swapped their level after the second rest day (as you would expect when one did the Tour and the other hadn't), and they never had all of Nieve, Lopez, Rosa and Poels with Froome at the same time - which meant Moscon needed to be better than expected at climbing and maybe the Vuelta would have gone differently if he hadn't been. Two of the true climbers were always dropped when it mattered.

I suppose I'm trying to say, Sky throw 8 great helpers at their teams. The 2-3 flat/rouleur guys rarely put a foot wrong, but the 5-6 climbers are rarely all good at the same time.

1. you'd think Sky with all their alleged sports science would work out to have Poels AND Nieve AND Rosa AND Lopez being at their best level during the same three weeks.

2. if they do ever crack that formula imagine how scary they'll be.


Poels must have been there all day everyday given his 6th on the GC, no?
Inquitus
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Re: Re:

09 Sep 2017 17:16

movingtarget wrote:
Poursuivant wrote:I reckon Froome's Vuelta team was stronger that his Tour team, at least in the mountains.


Yes that's probably right. Landa was the standout in the Tour while in the Vuelta, Sky was more consistent in the mountains.


People on here argued as to why some riders were left off this Tour team. The simple answer is they put the team together specifically designed for each stage. I would say...mission accomplished.
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Re: Re:

09 Sep 2017 17:16

TMP402 wrote:
Poursuivant wrote:I reckon Froome's Vuelta team was stronger that his Tour team, at least in the mountains.


It's funny, yes, Froome's team is strong and often the strongest on paper at the Tour at this Vuelta, but he rarely has everything go to plan. Thomas inevitably crashes or gets attempted-murdered by Barguil, and at least one of their team goes AWOL for an entire GT (Koenig and Kennaugh 2015 Tour, Henao 2017 Tour).

This Vuelta, you rarely saw Moscon do a long pull, then Lopez, then Rosa, then Nieve, then Poels, then Froome attack, which is the classic Skytrain tactic. Instead Moscon was, like Kwiatkowski at the Tour, performing better in the mountains than he was probably supposed to, Nieve and Poels essentially swapped their level after the second rest day (as you would expect when one did the Tour and the other hadn't), and they never had all of Nieve, Lopez, Rosa and Poels with Froome at the same time - which meant Moscon needed to be better than expected at climbing and maybe the Vuelta would have gone differently if he hadn't been. Two of the true climbers were always dropped when it mattered.

I suppose I'm trying to say, Sky throw 8 great helpers at their teams. The 2-3 flat/rouleur guys rarely put a foot wrong, but the 5-6 climbers are rarely all good at the same time.

1. you'd think Sky with all their alleged sports science would work out to have Poels AND Nieve AND Rosa AND Lopez being at their best level during the same three weeks.

2. if they do ever crack that formula imagine how scary they'll be.


They had Froome, Poels, Nieve, Moscon, Rosa and Lopez all together today in a group of 13 so I'm pretty sure they are all good here. Only Pellizzotti, Nibali, Zakarin, Kelderman, Woods, Kruijswijk and Carapaz were left. That is incredible strength if you ask me.
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Re: Re:

09 Sep 2017 17:17

Inquitus wrote:
TMP402 wrote:
Poursuivant wrote:I reckon Froome's Vuelta team was stronger that his Tour team, at least in the mountains.


It's funny, yes, Froome's team is strong and often the strongest on paper at the Tour at this Vuelta, but he rarely has everything go to plan. Thomas inevitably crashes or gets attempted-murdered by Barguil, and at least one of their team goes AWOL for an entire GT (Koenig and Kennaugh 2015 Tour, Henao 2017 Tour).

This Vuelta, you rarely saw Moscon do a long pull, then Lopez, then Rosa, then Nieve, then Poels, then Froome attack, which is the classic Skytrain tactic. Instead Moscon was, like Kwiatkowski at the Tour, performing better in the mountains than he was probably supposed to, Nieve and Poels essentially swapped their level after the second rest day (as you would expect when one did the Tour and the other hadn't), and they never had all of Nieve, Lopez, Rosa and Poels with Froome at the same time - which meant Moscon needed to be better than expected at climbing and maybe the Vuelta would have gone differently if he hadn't been. Two of the true climbers were always dropped when it mattered.

I suppose I'm trying to say, Sky throw 8 great helpers at their teams. The 2-3 flat/rouleur guys rarely put a foot wrong, but the 5-6 climbers are rarely all good at the same time.

1. you'd think Sky with all their alleged sports science would work out to have Poels AND Nieve AND Rosa AND Lopez being at their best level during the same three weeks.

2. if they do ever crack that formula imagine how scary they'll be.


Poels must have been there all day everyday given his 6th on the GC, no?


He rode his own race in the first week and a half, rarely helping Froome. Look at the results, he first shows something on Stage 11, where he finished a minute behind Froome and 45 seconds behind Nieve.
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Re: Re:

09 Sep 2017 17:19

b.broadhurst wrote:They had Froome, Poels, Nieve, Moscon, Rosa and Lopez all together today in a group of 13 so I'm pretty sure they are all good here. Only Pellizzotti, Nibali, Zakarin, Kelderman, Woods, Kruijswijk and Carapaz were left. That is incredible strength if you ask me.


Well, that was because Sky were well-positioned on the final descent, no? I saw Lopez pulling at the front, but not Moscon, today, and either there was an ad break or they showed the group in front but when the camera went back to the Froome group, he went from having four teammates to just Poels, then shortly after we saw Nieve get back to them, but he didn't take a turn before Pellizotti got rid of him again.
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09 Sep 2017 18:21

Moscon 13th today in the hardest MTF of the race.
Are you still convinced that he's not suddenly turned in a climber?
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09 Sep 2017 18:26

5th at Roubaix and 13th at the Angliru. Have we ever seen such a combination?
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Re: Team Sky Discussion thread

09 Sep 2017 18:44

Amazing team performance. Nieve will be missed a lot but a new monster was discovered on this Vuelta in Moscon.
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Re:

09 Sep 2017 19:12

Nirvana wrote:Moscon 13th today in the hardest MTF of the race.
Are you still convinced that he's not suddenly turned in a climber?

When has he not been a good climber?
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Re: Re:

09 Sep 2017 19:55

Squire wrote:
Nirvana wrote:Moscon 13th today in the hardest MTF of the race.
Are you still convinced that he's not suddenly turned in a climber?

When has he not been a good climber?

Before this summer he has never showed climbing skills in the mountains.
He was considered one of brightest young prospect but as rouleur/time trialist with punchy skills for hilly races, anyone could have thought of him as a climber.
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09 Sep 2017 20:11

His racism time-out probably gave him food for thought, and he decided he should become a climber instead of a cobblestone rider. Or both.
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Re: Re:

09 Sep 2017 20:13

Nirvana wrote:
Squire wrote:
Nirvana wrote:Moscon 13th today in the hardest MTF of the race.
Are you still convinced that he's not suddenly turned in a climber?

When has he not been a good climber?

Before this summer he has never showed climbing skills in the mountains.
He was considered one of brightest young prospect but as rouleur/time trialist with punchy skills for hilly races, anyone could have thought of him as a climber.

Certainly those watching him in the Tour de l'Avenir could easily imagine him as a pretty decent climber.
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Re:

09 Sep 2017 20:16

Dekker_Tifosi wrote:5th at Roubaix and 13th at the Angliru. Have we ever seen such a combination?

Not in the same season, but Wiggins has top-10 in both.
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09 Sep 2017 20:25

This Vuelta showcased the value of a super team more than ever before. Froome would have had it much more difficult if he didn't have guys around him constantly. What a team, ridiculous.
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Re: Re:

09 Sep 2017 20:27

ice&fire wrote:
Dekker_Tifosi wrote:5th at Roubaix and 13th at the Angliru. Have we ever seen such a combination?

Not in the same season, but Wiggins has top-10 in both.

Ofcourse I've meant same season. There are plenty of historic greats who even have GT wins and Roubaix wins.
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Re:

09 Sep 2017 20:27

Dekker_Tifosi wrote:5th at Roubaix and 13th at the Angliru. Have we ever seen such a combination?


Thomas for instance, in recents times, and in the past lot of people, but of course is amazing, specially in a young rider.

I agree with Contador there should be a limit of budget for teams. SKY has his merit outside budget to be so strong, but a big part is budget and this is bad for cycling.
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Re: Re:

09 Sep 2017 21:46

Squire wrote:
Nirvana wrote:
Squire wrote:
Nirvana wrote:Moscon 13th today in the hardest MTF of the race.
Are you still convinced that he's not suddenly turned in a climber?

When has he not been a good climber?

Before this summer he has never showed climbing skills in the mountains.
He was considered one of brightest young prospect but as rouleur/time trialist with punchy skills for hilly races, anyone could have thought of him as a climber.

Certainly those watching him in the Tour de l'Avenir could easily imagine him as a pretty decent climber.

Watching him lose almost twenty five minutes in La Toussuire?
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Re: Re:

09 Sep 2017 21:59

b.broadhurst wrote:
TMP402 wrote:
Poursuivant wrote:I reckon Froome's Vuelta team was stronger that his Tour team, at least in the mountains.


It's funny, yes, Froome's team is strong and often the strongest on paper at the Tour at this Vuelta, but he rarely has everything go to plan. Thomas inevitably crashes or gets attempted-murdered by Barguil, and at least one of their team goes AWOL for an entire GT (Koenig and Kennaugh 2015 Tour, Henao 2017 Tour).

This Vuelta, you rarely saw Moscon do a long pull, then Lopez, then Rosa, then Nieve, then Poels, then Froome attack, which is the classic Skytrain tactic. Instead Moscon was, like Kwiatkowski at the Tour, performing better in the mountains than he was probably supposed to, Nieve and Poels essentially swapped their level after the second rest day (as you would expect when one did the Tour and the other hadn't), and they never had all of Nieve, Lopez, Rosa and Poels with Froome at the same time - which meant Moscon needed to be better than expected at climbing and maybe the Vuelta would have gone differently if he hadn't been. Two of the true climbers were always dropped when it mattered.

I suppose I'm trying to say, Sky throw 8 great helpers at their teams. The 2-3 flat/rouleur guys rarely put a foot wrong, but the 5-6 climbers are rarely all good at the same time.

1. you'd think Sky with all their alleged sports science would work out to have Poels AND Nieve AND Rosa AND Lopez being at their best level during the same three weeks.

2. if they do ever crack that formula imagine how scary they'll be.


They had Froome, Poels, Nieve, Moscon, Rosa and Lopez all together today in a group of 13 so I'm pretty sure they are all good here. Only Pellizzotti, Nibali, Zakarin, Kelderman, Woods, Kruijswijk and Carapaz were left. That is incredible strength if you ask me.


It's baffling to me that this even has to be stated.
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Re:

09 Sep 2017 22:04

Dekker_Tifosi wrote:5th at Roubaix and 13th at the Angliru. Have we ever seen such a combination?


I can a!most guarantee that we haven't especially as his was the result of riding with elite the entire stage and not from a break. It's quite extraordinary.
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