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General Doping Thread.

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

Moderators: Irondan, Eshnar, Red Rick, Valv.Piti, Pricey_sky, Tonton, King Boonen

22 Sep 2017 10:15

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/21/sports/the-home-run-explosion-is-not-exactly-beyond-suspicion.html?

I've long said that the doping culture in baseball, American football and "rest of the world" football is even more secretive and advanced than in cycling. risk/reward ratio is ridiculous. Little risk unless you're an idiot = mind-boggling rewards.
Bolder
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22 Sep 2017 13:05

At least in soccer they still do doping controls like back in 1998 I think. Ya'll know how ineffective those controls were. So actually the soccer players are still able to use the very same doping products that set like every climbing record in cycling until the motor doping spiced up things again after like 15-20 years. I honestly dunno whether that's so different in tennis. At least in the NHL according to Lance Armstrong they weren't even testing for HGH & IGF-1 properly few years back.

Cycling was and properly still is the most progressive sport regarding doping. Both because new products are tried out earlier and the steadily actualized controls makes need for new doping methods. But with EPO in it's different varieties (Eprex, Aranesp, Cera) still being the best drug ever a sport like soccer where it's still possible to play old-school is probably more rotten nowadays!
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24 Sep 2017 06:51

If a drug is banned for race horses then why is it allowed for cyclists?

http://capovelo.com/Tramadol-34Doping-in-Cycling34/
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24 Sep 2017 16:18

DON CATLIN (Founder, UCLA Olympic Lab):

"They are all doping. Every single one of them"
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12 Oct 2017 12:59

Higenamin? (or Norcoclaurine HCl) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higenamine

https://www.dn.se/sport/svensk-elitspelare-i-amerikansk-fotboll-avstangd-for-dopning/

Swede banned for Higenamin - 3 American Footballers banned for it. Been banned by WADA since 1st Jan.
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12 Oct 2017 15:40

What is the chance van Avermaet will get in trouble with this talk regarding the Ozone doctor?
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Re:

12 Oct 2017 15:55

staubsauger wrote:At least in soccer they still do doping controls like back in 1998 I think. Ya'll know how ineffective those controls were. So actually the soccer players are still able to use the very same doping products that set like every climbing record in cycling until the motor doping spiced up things again after like 15-20 years. I honestly dunno whether that's so different in tennis. At least in the NHL according to Lance Armstrong they weren't even testing for HGH & IGF-1 properly few years back.

Cycling was and properly still is the most progressive sport regarding doping. Both because new products are tried out earlier and the steadily actualized controls makes need for new doping methods. But with EPO in it's different varieties (Eprex, Aranesp, Cera) still being the best drug ever a sport like soccer where it's still possible to play old-school is probably more rotten nowadays!


Is it that secretive in the NFL. Hunter S. Thompson exposed it in the 70's, ludicrously short suspensions are handed out, it's a case of being sensible and not getting caught.

Apologies, quoted incorrectly!
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20 Oct 2017 23:31

WADA updates the Prohibited List for 2018
https://www.ukad.org.uk/news/article/wada-updates-the-prohibited-list-for-2018/

Alcohol to be removed from the List. Alcohol will no longer be prohibited in 2018.


Cheers! (hic!) :D

(Full 2018 WADA prohibited list at https://www.wada-ama.org/sites/default/files/prohibited_list_2018_en.pdf )
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24 Oct 2017 03:10

Oh, this is lovely:

The Iditarod Trail Committee today revealed four-time champion Dallas Seavey as the musher behind four dogs who tested positive for illegal opioids during this year’s race. (Seavey came in second place behind... his dad, Mitch Seavey, who beat him by nearly three hours to become both the oldest and fastest winner in race history.) While the younger Seavey will not be punished—under the rules that were in effect at the time of the race, a musher cannot be punished for doping if intent cannot be proven—he announced his intent to withdraw from next year’s Iditarod in protest over how the drug results have been handled.


he believes that someone else gave his dogs the opioid “maliciously.”


https://deadspin.com/former-iditarod-champ-dallas-seavey-revealed-as-musher-1819790524
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Re:

27 Oct 2017 15:12

Merckx index wrote:Oh, this is lovely:

The Iditarod Trail Committee today revealed four-time champion Dallas Seavey as the musher behind four dogs who tested positive for illegal opioids during this year’s race. (Seavey came in second place behind... his dad, Mitch Seavey, who beat him by nearly three hours to become both the oldest and fastest winner in race history.) While the younger Seavey will not be punished—under the rules that were in effect at the time of the race, a musher cannot be punished for doping if intent cannot be proven—he announced his intent to withdraw from next year’s Iditarod in protest over how the drug results have been handled.


he believes that someone else gave his dogs the opioid “maliciously.”


https://deadspin.com/former-iditarod-champ-dallas-seavey-revealed-as-musher-1819790524

I just watched this on CNN as I heard about it for the first time today.

Whatever's going on up there in Alaska you can bet that the dogs are the losers in this case, they're the only ones being cheated out of quality care and humane treatment. If Seavey's telling the truth about some sort of conspiracy (as likely as Tyler's twin) then shame on the wretched souls who sabotage dog sledding by harming a defenseless animal, or if Seavey's lying then may he rot in hell.

http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2017/10/27/iditarod-dogs-banned-substance-seavey-cooper-ac-ridiculist.cnn/video/playlists/ac360-ridiculist/
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28 Oct 2017 09:02

Sorry but how is giving tramadol to dogs inhumane?
Craigee
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Re:

28 Oct 2017 11:03

Robert5091 wrote:If a drug is banned for race horses then why is it allowed for cyclists?

http://capovelo.com/Tramadol-34Doping-in-Cycling34/


Lots of meds are species specific in what they do, it would be ridiculous to ban any drug you found a performance enhancing effect with in another animal because I'm sure somewhere is an animal that responds to aspirin in a PED fashion....doesn't mean it would be the same for humans.

Likewise this conflation of horse steroids (when talking about prednisolone) is also ridiculous, lots of the same meds are used both in veterinary medicine and human medicine but with very different results...clenbuterol in an Alberto Contador will cause weight loss but in cattle it acts more like an anabolic and causes massive tissue growth.

Then there is the TUE process...rightly or wrongly should the only analgesia available to a cyclist be aspirin or acetaminophen?...they're pretty weak, if i was soldiering on with a broken collarbone, cracked pelvis etc I'd want something stronger too...so there has to be some balance.
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Re:

28 Oct 2017 15:21

Craigee wrote:Sorry but how is giving tramadol to dogs inhumane?

It's the circumstances under which it was given.

I can think of lot's of analogies to help explain why this is inhumane but I'm just going to go with common sense.
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Re: Re:

29 Oct 2017 09:35

Irondan wrote:
Craigee wrote:Sorry but how is giving tramadol to dogs inhumane?

It's the circumstances under which it was given.

I can think of lot's of analogies to help explain why this is inhumane but I'm just going to go with common sense.



Are there any charges for being inhumane in this case?
Craigee
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29 Oct 2017 10:19

I'm failing to get as excited about Iditarod as others. I mean, dogs dope. They dope with coke. They dope with EPO. They dope with ketamine, amphetamines, pesticides and cobalt.

And it's not just dogs. Pigeons do it. Horses do it. Fighting cocks do it.

Want to bet that bulls, foxes and hares aren't doped too?
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06 Nov 2017 19:41

Philipa York (aka Robert Millar) on her doping


.....for all York’s new openness, there is a frustrating coyness on this thorny subject. “I have a doping conviction,” York does acknowledge of the 1992 Vuelta. An excess of testosterone was recorded, and a punishment meted out of a £1,100 fine, a ten-minute penalty and a three-month suspended ban.

York disputes the findings, the levels discovered, but, pressed on the issue, says: “I was a rider of those times. How you present that is up to you. You lived by the culture of the people round about you. You lived by their morals. If they became your morals . . .

“You are a victim in a way. A victim of a system that allows no way of informing anyone outside what was happening on the inside. A willing victim, I would say. When you want to do something that much you take the bad bits with the good bits.”


I dont see any change from York's time to now.

"a rider of those times"

"lived by the culture of the people round about you"

"lived by their morals. If they became your morals"

"A victim of a system"

"When you want to do something that much you take the bad bits with the good bits.”

Cycling has not changed its cultre as it has not changed the type of person who inhabits the sport, the Lefevre, Unzue, Vinos, Saronni, Vaughters, Och and Brailford. These people enable and demand the doping (inc motors) to get the results.
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