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Norman Alvis - Master's Hour Recoed

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Norman Alvis - Master's Hour Recoed

04 Oct 2017 10:11

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/former-tour-pro-sets-masters-hour-record/

So many red flags...do they bother doing any testing at all with masters?
idunno
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04 Oct 2017 10:20

Wow. That's a name I haven't heard in a long time...

John Swanson
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Re: Norman Alvis - Master's Hour Recoed

04 Oct 2017 10:54

idunno wrote:So many red flags...do they bother doing any testing at all with masters?
Oh do wave them so we can all see them, please...
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Re: Norman Alvis - Master's Hour Recoed

04 Oct 2017 11:33

idunno wrote:http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/former-tour-pro-sets-masters-hour-record/

So many red flags...do they bother doing any testing at all with masters?


viewtopic.php?f=20&t=11457
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Re: Norman Alvis - Master's Hour Recoed

04 Oct 2017 17:05

idunno wrote:http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/former-tour-pro-sets-masters-hour-record/

So many red flags...do they bother doing any testing at all with masters?


Of course they do. Testing is required for a world record to be ratified and starting this year for national records also.

You can see for yourself that he was tested earlier in the year when he set the US hour record at 48.122 in June or so. If you check back in a week or so you'll see that number go up to reflect his test from last Friday.

Also, you understand that the record was set at altitude (~6,000') and indoors (front disk).
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Re: Norman Alvis - Master's Hour Recoed

05 Oct 2017 15:13

Way to go Norm! You kicked @$$
You crushed K. Metcalfe and the CA anti-aging crowd that spent $100,000 last July.
This time you did it without water, on a bike that anyone can buy and took a whiz quiz.
Always a fan......
UncleChainwhip
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Re: Norman Alvis - Master's Hour Recoed

05 Oct 2017 15:51

UncleChainwhip wrote:Way to go Norm! You kicked @$$
You crushed K. Metcalfe and the CA anti-aging crowd that spent $100,000 last July.
This time you did it without water, on a bike that anyone can buy and took a whiz quiz.
Always a fan......


Hi. Kevin Metcalfe here. I hate to break it to you, but we probably spent less on our attempts than Norm. Loaner bike (BMC TM01 road bike), borrowed wheels, the attempt cost including airfare and lodging was cheaper than what Colorado Springs would have cost.
Airfare: $571
Hotel: $25/night per person
Attempt cost: $1400
Drug testing: $450

For my 2km record the next day, the cost was an additional $100 for the attempt and another $450 for the drug test.

Colorado Springs wanted $2500 for the attempt. USADA would be no cost in the US, but still cheaper to fly to Mexico vs. fly to Colorado Springs. And I only did it once. Norm did it in the spring and then just last week, so I'm thinking that he's spent more on this adventure than I have.

Norm and I had lunch in Colorado Springs in August when I was in town for Pikes Peak. I passed on whatever I could of the things I had learned from others that might help him. (skin suits, tires, pressure, socks, chain prep, etc.) He went farther than I did, though he's in a younger group than me. (I'm 56.) Next year he may very well take my record from me. If so, I'll be sad, but Norm is a good guy, a great rider and would deserve it.

For the record, I rode 49.121 km. Norm rode 49.392km.

Since this is "The Clinic" you all might be interested to know that I brought my own packaged chicken from home for meals as clenbuterol in livestock is a known issue in Mexico.

https://www.usada.org/clenbuterol-and-meat-contamination/

Also, though I know that the clinic doesn't think this means anything, I've been drug tested a total of three times this year. Once after breaking the 55+ 40km record in June and twice in Mexico.

I'd love to hear how you came up with $100,000 for our cost...
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Re: Norman Alvis - Master's Hour Recoed

05 Oct 2017 20:10

Whoops, apologize for 'fat cat' reference, meant total entourage.
You listed $2500 but there is so much more......
Thought you paid for the bike and ancillary equipment, had a job you missed, stayed there more than 1 day, and had someone helping you. Several athletes raced there, no? No family or sponsors there? Estimate was based on 20 people x $5,000. Drug testing has got cheaper in the last 30yrs. UCI commisaires used to be rare. Mexican vacation cheaper than i thought. Not afraid of chicken though, just buy your way around testing down there, well-documented.
Your record certainly more hardscrabble than Norm's to me. He is very well connected to pro sponsorship, USAC darling and lives by the track. They even put up the circus tent early this year! Glad he didn't get 'chicked' by E. Stevens' 47.9km ride up there in 2016------now THAT was an expensive effort. Way to go Kevin! You're an evergreen!!
UncleChainwhip
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05 Oct 2017 23:12

Kevin, I think he's valuing your time at $1000/hr. Be flattered.
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Re: Norman Alvis - Master's Hour Recoed

08 Oct 2017 01:51

nslckevin wrote:
UncleChainwhip wrote:Way to go Norm! You kicked @$$
You crushed K. Metcalfe and the CA anti-aging crowd that spent $100,000 last July.
This time you did it without water, on a bike that anyone can buy and took a whiz quiz.
Always a fan......


Hi. Kevin Metcalfe here. I hate to break it to you, but we probably spent less on our attempts than Norm. Loaner bike (BMC TM01 road bike), borrowed wheels, the attempt cost including airfare and lodging was cheaper than what Colorado Springs would have cost.
Airfare: $571
Hotel: $25/night per person
Attempt cost: $1400
Drug testing: $450

For my 2km record the next day, the cost was an additional $100 for the attempt and another $450 for the drug test.

Colorado Springs wanted $2500 for the attempt. USADA would be no cost in the US, but still cheaper to fly to Mexico vs. fly to Colorado Springs. And I only did it once. Norm did it in the spring and then just last week, so I'm thinking that he's spent more on this adventure than I have.

Norm and I had lunch in Colorado Springs in August when I was in town for Pikes Peak. I passed on whatever I could of the things I had learned from others that might help him. (skin suits, tires, pressure, socks, chain prep, etc.) He went farther than I did, though he's in a younger group than me. (I'm 56.) Next year he may very well take my record from me. If so, I'll be sad, but Norm is a good guy, a great rider and would deserve it.

For the record, I rode 49.121 km. Norm rode 49.392km.

Since this is "The Clinic" you all might be interested to know that I brought my own packaged chicken from home for meals as clenbuterol in livestock is a known issue in Mexico.

https://www.usada.org/clenbuterol-and-meat-contamination/

Also, though I know that the clinic doesn't think this means anything, I've been drug tested a total of three times this year. Once after breaking the 55+ 40km record in June and twice in Mexico.

I'd love to hear how you came up with $100,000 for our cost...


<applause>
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10 Oct 2017 16:33

Is there a reason we have age-specific "world records" at all? Surely, the whole point of a world record is it is the very best in the world - if you start adding criteria to it then it all becomes a bit diluted. Now, I realize here in California, masters cycling is more important than elite cycling (but that's another story) but having records for age groups strikes me as a bit needy.
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Re:

10 Oct 2017 16:58

TrackCynic wrote:Is there a reason we have age-specific "world records" at all? Surely, the whole point of a world record is it is the very best in the world - if you start adding criteria to it then it all becomes a bit diluted. Now, I realize here in California, masters cycling is more important than elite cycling (but that's another story) but having records for age groups strikes me as a bit needy.


Is there a reason we have old people at all? Surely the whole point of living is domination--if you start considering old people as valuable then it all becomes a bit diluted. Now, I realize there in California, old people are a little more respected than elsewhere (but that's another story) but caring about old people at all strikes me as a bit needy.
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Re: Re:

10 Oct 2017 17:27

MarkvW wrote:
TrackCynic wrote:Is there a reason we have age-specific "world records" at all? Surely, the whole point of a world record is it is the very best in the world - if you start adding criteria to it then it all becomes a bit diluted. Now, I realize here in California, masters cycling is more important than elite cycling (but that's another story) but having records for age groups strikes me as a bit needy.


Is there a reason we have old people at all? Surely the whole point of living is domination--if you start considering old people as valuable then it all becomes a bit diluted. Now, I realize there in California, old people are a little more respected than elsewhere (but that's another story) but caring about old people at all strikes me as a bit needy.


:lol:
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Re:

10 Oct 2017 18:36

TrackCynic wrote:Is there a reason we have age-specific "world records" at all? Surely, the whole point of a world record is it is the very best in the world - if you start adding criteria to it then it all becomes a bit diluted.

All records have criteria attached, even elite WRs, which means they too are only about the best that meet certain arbitrary criteria. I suppose in your world women don't count?

In the olden days there were 6 different elite world hour record categories, covering indoor/outdoor, pro/amateur and above/below 600m altitude. 12 if you added gender to the mix.

Now days you have to meet a range of other criteria such that it excludes many from even making an attempt.

Then there are a whole range of criteria for WRs in various other athletic endeavours....

This thread, or more to the point it's placement, is ridiculous.
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Re: Re:

10 Oct 2017 22:03

MarkvW wrote:
TrackCynic wrote:Is there a reason we have age-specific "world records" at all? Surely, the whole point of a world record is it is the very best in the world - if you start adding criteria to it then it all becomes a bit diluted. Now, I realize here in California, masters cycling is more important than elite cycling (but that's another story) but having records for age groups strikes me as a bit needy.


Is there a reason we have old people at all? Surely the whole point of living is domination--if you start considering old people as valuable then it all becomes a bit diluted. Now, I realize there in California, old people are a little more respected than elsewhere (but that's another story) but caring about old people at all strikes me as a bit needy.


The difference between "real life" and sport is that by the time you get to masters age it should be about fun - you've had your crack at being an elite in your 20s/30s - anything else should be recreational fun. Although I do not think there is anything remotely suspicious about these attempts, there is a wider issue of people taking USA masters racing too seriously that HAS led to doping by amateur old guys. Meanwhile, the sport is withering on the vine because there aren't enough juniors or elite age racers coming through, or the ones that do get very little moral or practical support from the masters who are too busy aiming for late-years glory. Contrast that with other countries where there is healthy "passing the baton" attitude from masters.
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Re: Norman Alvis - Master's Hour Recoed

14 Oct 2017 04:43

Whew!
Just when i started cranking up the sympathy machine, turns out that Danish junior riding at sea level didn't take 3' out of Alvis.
He failed the $450 test, must have been an amateur......
Back to the lab, Dexter
UncleChainwhip
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Re: Re:

14 Oct 2017 10:50

MarkvW wrote:
TrackCynic wrote:Is there a reason we have age-specific "world records" at all? Surely, the whole point of a world record is it is the very best in the world - if you start adding criteria to it then it all becomes a bit diluted. Now, I realize here in California, masters cycling is more important than elite cycling (but that's another story) but having records for age groups strikes me as a bit needy.


Is there a reason we have old people at all? Surely the whole point of living is domination--if you start considering old people as valuable then it all becomes a bit diluted. Now, I realize there in California, old people are a little more respected than elsewhere (but that's another story) but caring about old people at all strikes me as a bit needy.


When you become old you may think differently. Maybe everyone should be sent to Valhalla when they reach 30 a la Logans Run ?
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Re: Norman Alvis - Master's Hour Recoed

16 Oct 2017 15:36

UncleChainwhip wrote:Whew!
Just when i started cranking up the sympathy machine, turns out that Danish junior riding at sea level didn't take 3' out of Alvis.
He failed the $450 test, must have been an amateur......
Back to the lab, Dexter



Ooops, big mistake, THAT positive drug test for DMBA was yesterday's Chrono Des Nations winner, Martin Toft Madsen, back in January 2017 when he went 52.114km.
The 18yo, current U23 World TT champ is NOT a junior, but is a professional. Mikkel Bjerg to be applauded for his 52.311km mark at sea level at Odense with scintillating world championship form. As a professional, perhaps a greater achievement is his contract for next year which is rumored to be one of the most lucrative ever for a second year senior rider.
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16 Oct 2017 16:28

Excellent explanation Kevin, it's nice to get some behind-the-scenes info that a lot of us here would probably be unaware of otherwise.
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Re: Norman Alvis - Master's Hour Recoed

16 Oct 2017 16:38

nslckevin wrote:
UncleChainwhip wrote:Way to go Norm! You kicked @$$
You crushed K. Metcalfe and the CA anti-aging crowd that spent $100,000 last July.
This time you did it without water, on a bike that anyone can buy and took a whiz quiz.
Always a fan......


Hi. Kevin Metcalfe here. I hate to break it to you, but we probably spent less on our attempts than Norm. Loaner bike (BMC TM01 road bike), borrowed wheels, the attempt cost including airfare and lodging was cheaper than what Colorado Springs would have cost.
Airfare: $571
Hotel: $25/night per person
Attempt cost: $1400
Drug testing: $450

For my 2km record the next day, the cost was an additional $100 for the attempt and another $450 for the drug test.

Colorado Springs wanted $2500 for the attempt. USADA would be no cost in the US, but still cheaper to fly to Mexico vs. fly to Colorado Springs. And I only did it once. Norm did it in the spring and then just last week, so I'm thinking that he's spent more on this adventure than I have.

Norm and I had lunch in Colorado Springs in August when I was in town for Pikes Peak. I passed on whatever I could of the things I had learned from others that might help him. (skin suits, tires, pressure, socks, chain prep, etc.) He went farther than I did, though he's in a younger group than me. (I'm 56.) Next year he may very well take my record from me. If so, I'll be sad, but Norm is a good guy, a great rider and would deserve it.

For the record, I rode 49.121 km. Norm rode 49.392km.

Since this is "The Clinic" you all might be interested to know that I brought my own packaged chicken from home for meals as clenbuterol in livestock is a known issue in Mexico.

https://www.usada.org/clenbuterol-and-meat-contamination/

Also, though I know that the clinic doesn't think this means anything, I've been drug tested a total of three times this year. Once after breaking the 55+ 40km record in June and twice in Mexico.

I'd love to hear how you came up with $100,000 for our cost...

Not everyone in the Clinic thinks everyone that rides a bike is a doper, although it's not surprising that lot's of Masters get busted.

Thanks for breaking down your costs and giving us insight into your record ride. It's not often we get to hear the facts straight from the horses mouth.

Cheers :)
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