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The pedaling technique thread

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Re: Re:

07 Dec 2017 02:26

Do you realize you could have insulted researchers with those statements. For your information your data could be considered flawed because they were all pedalling natural style not non round ring style.


Again, we look at data, not opinion.
Hamish Ferguson
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Re: Re:

07 Dec 2017 02:28

backdoor wrote:
CoachFergie wrote:
Those of us who do have tried this and it is neither effective (more power) or more efficient (less O2 cost for a given power). These things are easily measured.


Impossible, first you need the special bike set up and then the technique.


Which makes your technique even more pointless if that is so.
Hamish Ferguson
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Re: Re:

07 Dec 2017 11:05

CoachFergie wrote:
backdoor wrote:
CoachFergie wrote:
Those of us who do have tried this and it is neither effective (more power) or more efficient (less O2 cost for a given power). These things are easily measured.


Impossible, first you need the special bike set up and then the technique.


Which makes your technique even more pointless if that is so.


Nonsense, regardless of what bike he was on, it was said that Anquetil always had the perfect bike set up and position, which can be explained by the fact that it is a self bike fitting technique.
backdoor
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Re: Re:

07 Dec 2017 15:29

backdoor wrote:...
If you were asked to pedal on your bike using only a forward force around TDC, how would you apply it ?

---------------------------
Why such a silly question?
In the sector between about 11:30 to 12:30, producing a meaningful "forward force around TDC" can only be accomplished by using a forward 'kicking' motion of the lower leg. Some amount of forward force might be generated by ankle movement if the foot is trained for that motion.
Do you think some other way is possible or performed?

Regarding the t-o-w athletes, I'm certain that they all have some experience riding a bicycle, and use whatever pedalling technique seems most 'natural and efficient/effective' to them.

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA
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Re: Re:

07 Dec 2017 16:37

backdoor wrote:
CoachFergie wrote:
backdoor wrote:
CoachFergie wrote:
Those of us who do have tried this and it is neither effective (more power) or more efficient (less O2 cost for a given power). These things are easily measured.


Impossible, first you need the special bike set up and then the technique.


Which makes your technique even more pointless if that is so.


Nonsense, regardless of what bike he was on, it was said that Anquetil always had the perfect bike set up and position, which can be explained by the fact that it is a self bike fitting technique.


Bold claims for someone who has no actual evidence. Where is the data to show this?
Hamish Ferguson
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Re: Re:

10 Dec 2017 01:21

JayKosta wrote:
backdoor wrote:...
If you were asked to pedal on your bike using only a forward force around TDC, how would you apply it ?

---------------------------
Why such a silly question?
In the sector between about 11:30 to 12:30, producing a meaningful "forward force around TDC" can only be accomplished by using a forward 'kicking' motion of the lower leg. Some amount of forward force might be generated by ankle movement if the foot is trained for that motion.
Do you think some other way is possible or performed?


Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA


That's what I have been trying to explain over the past few days, maximal torque can be applied at 12, 1 and 2 o'c by using the indoor to'w technique between 11-2 o'c instead of the useless kicking action between 11-1. As for that kicking action, it's more efficient to let the foot be pushed over TDC by the other leg than use the kicking action, counterweighted single leg pedalling confirmed that. My reason for asking that silly question was, if a t o'w man was asked the same question, I was wondering if he would attempt to use his t o'w technique there.
backdoor
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Re: Re:

10 Dec 2017 01:30

CoachFergie wrote:
backdoor wrote:
CoachFergie wrote:
backdoor wrote:
CoachFergie wrote:
Those of us who do have tried this and it is neither effective (more power) or more efficient (less O2 cost for a given power). These things are easily measured.


Impossible, first you need the special bike set up and then the technique.


Which makes your technique even more pointless if that is so.


Nonsense, regardless of what bike he was on, it was said that Anquetil always had the perfect bike set up and position, which can be explained by the fact that it is a self bike fitting technique.


Bold claims for someone who has no actual evidence. Where is the data to show this?


I'd say J. Bobet could help with the evidence.
backdoor
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Re: Re:

10 Dec 2017 19:16

backdoor wrote:
I'd say J. Bobet could help with the evidence.


Says it all really. Pathetic.
Hamish Ferguson
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Re: Re:

10 Dec 2017 19:19

backdoor wrote:That's what I have been trying to explain over the past few days, maximal torque can be applied at 12, 1 and 2 o'c by using the indoor to'w technique between 11-2 o'c instead of the useless kicking action between 11-1. As for that kicking action, it's more efficient to let the foot be pushed over TDC by the other leg than use the kicking action, counterweighted single leg pedalling confirmed that. My reason for asking that silly question was, if a t o'w man was asked the same question, I was wondering if he would attempt to use his t o'w technique there.


Do you even ride a bike? This is an ineffective method. You imagination is evidence of nothing but your stupidity.
Hamish Ferguson
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Re: Re:

10 Dec 2017 21:01

backdoor wrote:...
if a t o'w man was asked the same question, I was wondering if he would attempt to use his t-o-w technique there.

------------
My guess is that the t-o-w person would NOT try to do a STRONG 'kick foot forward' at TDC.
Would wait till just beyond 1 o'clock and then do STRONG combination 'kick forward' and 'push down'.
From about 11:30 to 1:00, there might be better than usual 'unweighting' to keep the foot moving in the desired circular pattern and speed (keeping momentum).

In actual t-o-w contests, does the knee/lower leg get bent as much as in cycling?
I doubt that the angle between lower and upper leg is ever 90 degrees or less.

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA
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Re: Re:

Yesterday 10:49

JayKosta wrote:
backdoor wrote:...
if a t o'w man was asked the same question, I was wondering if he would attempt to use his t-o-w technique there.

------------
My guess is that the t-o-w person would NOT try to do a STRONG 'kick foot forward' at TDC.
Would wait till just beyond 1 o'clock and then do STRONG combination 'kick forward' and 'push down'.
From about 11:30 to 1:00, there might be better than usual 'unweighting' to keep the foot moving in the desired circular pattern and speed (keeping momentum).

In actual t-o-w contests, does the knee/lower leg get bent as much as in cycling?
I doubt that the angle between lower and upper leg is ever 90 degrees or less.

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA


If you cannot generate a tangential force at TDC equal or greater than that around 3 o'c, you would be better off forgetting about that sector and concentrating on the downstroke. When you use kicking forward with the downstroke, you are using two independent actions and the result will be a later start to a weaker downstroke. When you use the powerful INDOOR t o'w technique with the downstroke, it is one continuous extended power stroke.
The amount of knee bend would depend on the speed they are moving backwards.
backdoor
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Re: Re:

Yesterday 17:25

backdoor wrote:
JayKosta wrote:
backdoor wrote:...
if a t o'w man was asked the same question, I was wondering if he would attempt to use his t-o-w technique there.

------------
My guess is that the t-o-w person would NOT try to do a STRONG 'kick foot forward' at TDC.
Would wait till just beyond 1 o'clock and then do STRONG combination 'kick forward' and 'push down'.
From about 11:30 to 1:00, there might be better than usual 'unweighting' to keep the foot moving in the desired circular pattern and speed (keeping momentum).

In actual t-o-w contests, does the knee/lower leg get bent as much as in cycling?
I doubt that the angle between lower and upper leg is ever 90 degrees or less.

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA


If you cannot generate a tangential force at TDC equal or greater than that around 3 o'c, you would be better off forgetting about that sector and concentrating on the downstroke. When you use kicking forward with the downstroke, you are using two independent actions and the result will be a later start to a weaker downstroke. When you use the powerful INDOOR t o'w technique with the downstroke, it is one continuous extended power stroke.
The amount of knee bend would depend on the speed they are moving backwards.


Do you even ride Noel? We have tried this. It's not as powerful as you think.
Hamish Ferguson
coachfergblog.blogspot.co.nz
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