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The pedaling technique thread

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Re: Re:

19 Dec 2017 06:17

backdoor wrote:
Alex Simmons/RST wrote:Anquetil, Merckx and Hinault had significantly different pedalling styles. All managed to do OK. Amazing. or not


The pedalling of Merckx and Hinault may have looked different but in reality they were both using the same basic technique in which greatest torque could only be applied around 3 o'c and both riders' legs were effectively idling around TDC.


Yet Merckx is the greatest rider of all time and Hinault is the greatest time trialist ever. Just goes to show how inconsequential your observations are.
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Re: Re:

20 Dec 2017 00:05

CoachFergie wrote:
backdoor wrote:
Alex Simmons/RST wrote:Anquetil, Merckx and Hinault had significantly different pedalling styles. All managed to do OK. Amazing. or not


The pedalling of Merckx and Hinault may have looked different but in reality they were both using the same basic technique in which greatest torque could only be applied around 3 o'c and both riders' legs were effectively idling around TDC.


Yet Merckx is the greatest rider of all time and Hinault is the greatest time trialist ever. Just goes to show how inconsequential your observations are.


That's understandable, Merckx raced for the glory of winning, to Anquetil cycling was a business from which he hoped to amass a fortune for least amount of effort. Anquetil won all 9 G P d N he competed in, Hinault won 3. High gears did not do Hinault's knees any favours, his greatest torque application in each pedal stroke had to come down from his knees, Anquetil's high gear power came from his rear end and was smoothly distributed over twice the range Hinault was restricted to.
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20 Dec 2017 17:43

Noel, data, or not interested. You can not support any of your claims with evidence.
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Re:

20 Dec 2017 18:13

CoachFergie wrote:Noel, data, or not interested. You can not support any of your claims with evidence.


How does the pedalling style you used as a child compare with your pedalling style today ?
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20 Dec 2017 18:38

I didn't measure the way I pedalled when I was a child, so that would be speculation.
Hamish Ferguson
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Re:

20 Dec 2017 19:07

CoachFergie wrote:I didn't measure the way I pedalled when I was a child, so that would be speculation.


You are obsessed with the measurement of everything, what I meant was, does your method of applying chain drive power to the pedal today differ from the way you applied it then.
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20 Dec 2017 19:13

Yes, I am obsessed, data is handy to back up my assertions. You should try it some time.

Again, I didn't measure my pedalling when I was a child. Infocrank didn't make a trike based model back then!
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20 Dec 2017 20:29

It's all about negative torque suck transference. If you perfect the art of trash talking, you can turn talk into torque. Hinault was a master of the technique.
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Re:

20 Dec 2017 23:35

CoachFergie wrote:Yes, I am obsessed, data is handy to back up my assertions. You should try it some time.

Again, I didn't measure my pedalling when I was a child. Infocrank didn't make a trike based model back then!


For your information you are using the same technique (mashing) that you first learnt as a child because like walking and running it was ingrained in your brain not long after you started to pedal. A child would select the most obvious or easiest way to get the cranks moving. Even if they wanted to, It would be impossible for them to use the most effective way because of their equipment set-up (bars above saddle etc) and no cleats. Years later as coaches, scientists and engineers this technique was so ingrained in their brains that they were incapable of even considering the idea that a more effective technique could exist, and so in an attempt to rectify the major fault in this childhood technique, they started the never ending merry-go-round of odd shaped chainrings and cranks.
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21 Dec 2017 06:56

So you keep saying Noel, but without data you can't actually prove anything you claim. You are deluded. You cling to this illusion of the perfection of one rider who lets face it, admitted he took drugs and clearly was the best rider of his time. Jacques lucked in and was born with the best VO2max, fractional utilisation of VO2 and efficiency of the day.

Jim Martin has provided a wealth of data that any form of equipment that claims to alter pedalling technique and special methods claimed to improve technique are mostly bogus and any potential gains are so small that even David Brailsford would not be impressed.

Personally, I have tried your method as described by you within the constraints of UCI rules for road cycling and time trial cycling and it is less powerful and far less efficient.
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Re:

22 Dec 2017 12:25

CoachFergie wrote:So you keep saying Noel, but without data you can't actually prove anything you claim. You are deluded. You cling to this illusion of the perfection of one rider who lets face it, admitted he took drugs and clearly was the best rider of his time. Jacques lucked in and was born with the best VO2max, fractional utilisation of VO2 and efficiency of the day.

Jim Martin has provided a wealth of data that any form of equipment that claims to alter pedalling technique and special methods claimed to improve technique are mostly bogus and any potential gains are so small that even David Brailsford would not be impressed.

Personally, I have tried your method as described by you within the constraints of UCI rules for road cycling and time trial cycling and it is less powerful and far less efficient.


What UCI TT rules ?
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Re: Re:

22 Dec 2017 15:33

backdoor wrote:
CoachFergie wrote:So you keep saying Noel, but without data you can't actually prove anything you claim. You are deluded. You cling to this illusion of the perfection of one rider who lets face it, admitted he took drugs and clearly was the best rider of his time. Jacques lucked in and was born with the best VO2max, fractional utilisation of VO2 and efficiency of the day.

Jim Martin has provided a wealth of data that any form of equipment that claims to alter pedalling technique and special methods claimed to improve technique are mostly bogus and any potential gains are so small that even David Brailsford would not be impressed.

Personally, I have tried your method as described by you within the constraints of UCI rules for road cycling and time trial cycling and it is less powerful and far less efficient.


What UCI TT rules ?


Well there you go.
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Re: Re:

22 Dec 2017 16:41

[quote=backdoor"][quote="CoachFergie"

What UCI TT rules ?[/quote]

Well there you go.[/quote]

Do you mean this type of safe equipment must be used.
http://road.cc/content/news/229200-video-pro-rider-takes-nasty-fall-handlebars-are-snapped-clean
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22 Dec 2017 17:29

Present a plausible statement. Draw all the possible logical conclusions that you can from it. Retreat back to the plausible statement when challenged. Lather, rinse, repeat. Year after year.

A priori "science" is the funniest science.
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Re:

28 Dec 2017 23:31

CoachFergie wrote:So you keep saying Noel, but without data you can't actually prove anything you claim. You are deluded. You cling to this illusion of the perfection of one rider who lets face it, admitted he took drugs and clearly was the best rider of his time. Jacques lucked in and was born with the best VO2max, fractional utilisation of VO2 and efficiency of the day.

Jim Martin has provided a wealth of data that any form of equipment that claims to alter pedalling technique and special methods claimed to improve technique are mostly bogus and any potential gains are so small that even David Brailsford would not be impressed.

Personally, I have tried your method as described by you within the constraints of UCI rules for road cycling and time trial cycling and it is less powerful and far less efficient.



When applying crank torque, at any instant how many teeth of a 52t chainring are involved in pulling the chain or how many degrees of any chainring are involved ?
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29 Dec 2017 01:23

Don't waste our time Noel.

Do you actually ride Noel, have you actually tried this. I have tried as you described, within the constraints of the UCI bike fitting regs and it is less powerful and less efficient.

If you actually had the balls to put your money where your mouth is and test your claims you would see how wrong you are.
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Re: Re:

29 Dec 2017 13:18

backdoor wrote:
CoachFergie wrote:So you keep saying Noel, but without data you can't actually prove anything you claim. You are deluded. You cling to this illusion of the perfection of one rider who lets face it, admitted he took drugs and clearly was the best rider of his time. Jacques lucked in and was born with the best VO2max, fractional utilisation of VO2 and efficiency of the day.

Jim Martin has provided a wealth of data that any form of equipment that claims to alter pedalling technique and special methods claimed to improve technique are mostly bogus and any potential gains are so small that even David Brailsford would not be impressed.

Personally, I have tried your method as described by you within the constraints of UCI rules for road cycling and time trial cycling and it is less powerful and far less efficient.


If you are so sure of your methods, why don't you just supply some data as everybody asks. You can't. You sound like a badly broken record
When applying crank torque, at any instant how many teeth of a 52t chainring are involved in pulling the chain or how many degrees of any chainring are involved ?
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Re: Re:

29 Dec 2017 14:40

backdoor wrote:...
When applying crank torque, at any instant how many teeth of a 52t chainring are involved in pulling the chain or how many degrees of any chainring are involved ?

--------------------
From an engineering view (not pedalling technique), the answer depends highly on how the chain and chainring have worn - and that depends of how precisely the dimensions of the chain's pitch and the chainring's teeth have been manufactured. If there is any dimensional variance in those dimensions, then the tooth and link that has the 'tightest' contact will do the pulling - until some other tooth link that has tighter contact comes along.

I think that typically the tightest contact of a tooth/link is when a roller of a link first becomes seated into the 'valley' between teeth. After that point the chain's 'stretch/wear' causes that link to lose tight contact with the tooth as the next link comes along. So probably, ONE tooth at a time does the majority of pulling - and for somewhat less than 360/52 degrees.

Jay Kosta
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Last edited by JayKosta on 29 Dec 2017 21:48, edited 1 time in total.
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29 Dec 2017 20:24

It's also completely irrelevant wrt pedalling "technique".
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Re:

30 Dec 2017 20:50

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:It's also completely irrelevant wrt pedalling "technique".


But pedalling technique can be very relevant where wearing and stretching of the chain is concerned,
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