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Re: U.S. Politics

16 Feb 2018 15:26

It is not that he is a complicated subject. Quite the opposite. It is that everything about him is so painfully obvious. He is a low-rent racist, a shameless misogynist, and an unbalanced narcissist. He is an unrelenting liar and a two-bit white identity demagogue. Lest anyone forget these things, he goes out of his way each day to remind us of them.



https://theintercept.com/2018/02/16/trump-russia-election-hacking-investigation
User avatar Bustedknuckle
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Re: U.S. Politics

16 Feb 2018 17:16

Bustedknuckle wrote:
It is not that he is a complicated subject. Quite the opposite. It is that everything about him is so painfully obvious. He is a low-rent racist, a shameless misogynist, and an unbalanced narcissist. He is an unrelenting liar and a two-bit white identity demagogue. Lest anyone forget these things, he goes out of his way each day to remind us of them.



https://theintercept.com/2018/02/16/trump-russia-election-hacking-investigation


Cool article, thanks! The historical aspects of the intelligence groups are fascinating.
The poster formerly known as yespatterns.
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16 Feb 2018 17:30

The NRA is awful, but the blame is 100% on politicians.
jmdirt
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Re: U.S. Politics

16 Feb 2018 17:41

Bustedknuckle wrote:
It is not that he is a complicated subject. Quite the opposite. It is that everything about him is so painfully obvious. He is a low-rent racist, a shameless misogynist, and an unbalanced narcissist. He is an unrelenting liar and a two-bit white identity demagogue. Lest anyone forget these things, he goes out of his way each day to remind us of them.



https://theintercept.com/2018/02/16/trump-russia-election-hacking-investigation



Quote: "There are four important tracks to follow in the Trump-Russia story. First, we must determine whether there is credible evidence for the underlying premise that Russia intervened in the 2016 election to help Trump win." - which is the aim of this article.

Quote: "There can be little doubt now that Russian intelligence officials were behind an effort to hack the DNC’s computers and steal emails and other information from aides to Hillary Clinton as a means of damaging her presidential campaign."

Except... That was proven wrong. A group, Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity, investigated this issue. Who are these guys? Well, other than CIA analysts, their numbers include William Binney. The architect for NSA's current data collection activities. Think about that for a minute. What was their conclusion? Whomever took those emails did so by means of physical access to the servers. So it wasn't a hack at all. It was a leak by someone who copied the data from an internal network. - https://consortiumnews.com/2017/07/24/intel-vets-challenge-russia-hack-evidence/

Quote: "Russian intelligence also used fake social media accounts and other tools to create a global echo chamber both for stories about the emails and for anti-Clinton lies dressed up to look like news." -Congress said go look and Facebook and Twitter said "Nope"! Awww. Schiff and Feinstein didn't like that. https://www.recode.net/2018/1/31/16955432/democrats-congress-adam-schiff-dianne-feinstein-russia-release-the-memo-bots-trolls

Quote: "To their disgrace, editors and reporters at American news organizations greatly enhanced the Russian echo chamber, eagerly writing stories about Clinton and the Democratic Party based on the emails" - Because now it is disgraceful to report the truth. Think about that and all that it means.

I'm including this because it is stunningly devoid of facts and information, but really long on assertion: "To anyone who has studied the history of the KGB, particularly during the Cold War, the attack on the Clinton campaign and the Democratic Party during the 2016 U.S. election looks like the contemporary cyber-descendant of countless analog KGB propaganda efforts. Back in the 1970s and 1980s, the KGB frequently engaged in ambitious disinformation campaigns that were designed to sow suspicion of the United States in the developing world. The KGB’s so-called “active measures” programs would use international front organizations, cutouts, and sometimes unwitting enablers in the press to disseminate their anti-American propaganda."

Quote: "While the DNC used CrowdStrike, a private contractor, to conduct an investigation, it did not give the FBI access to its computer systems." - Finally, something they got right!! CrowdStrike was founded by Dmitri Alperovitch, emigrated Russian and Senior Fellow at the Atlantic Council (ahem) think tank.

What follows is several pages of waffling based on the "facts" presumed above. Finally, we get to another piece of information that can be substantiated: The growing evidence that Russia was behind the attack on the Democratic Party now includes the confession of a Russian hacker in a Moscow court. The story of Konstantin Kozlovsky appears to be one of the most significant of the entire Trump-Russia saga". - https://www.thedailybeast.com/should-we-believe-a-russian-hacker-who-claims-he-did-the-dnc-for-a-rogue-operative-in-the-fsb

Kozlovsky is pretty much a nutter who tells some pretty tall tales. Even if you think he's credible, consider this. He would like you to believe that Russia, with considerable intelligence resources, contracted out the hijacking of an American election to him and his friends. Let that simmer for a bit. Not only that. It was Dmitri Dokuchaev himself (!!!) who ordered the hack. Can you imagine Clapper or Michael Rogers calling up some kid in Kansas, asking him to take out Iran's centrifuges? Because that's basically the equivalent.

Oh yeah. And Dokuchaev was arrested in Moscow for spying for the US. Ooops.

None of which supports any claim whatsoever of Russian interference in America's very poor decision to elect Trump.

John Swanson
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16 Feb 2018 18:18

News from the special counsel. Full indictment available at the link.

Special Counsel Robert Mueller's office said Friday that a grand jury indicted 13 Russian nationals and three Russian entities for alleged interference in the 2016 presidential elections, during which they boosted the candidacy of Donald Trump.
The indictment says that the defendants by early to mid-2016 were "supporting the presidential campaign of then-candidate Donald J. Trump ... and disparaging Hillary Clinton."

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/16/russians-indicted-in-special-counsel-robert-muellers-probe.html

Though it does appear the contacts in the Trump campaign *from this effort* were 'unwitting'. (AKA useful idiots)
https://twitter.com/srl/status/964559595401342978
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Re:

16 Feb 2018 18:25

djpbaltimore wrote:News from the special counsel. Full indictment available at the link.

Special Counsel Robert Mueller's office said Friday that a grand jury indicted 13 Russian nationals and three Russian entities for alleged interference in the 2016 presidential elections, during which they boosted the candidacy of Donald Trump.
The indictment says that the defendants by early to mid-2016 were "supporting the presidential campaign of then-candidate Donald J. Trump ... and disparaging Hillary Clinton."

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/16/russians-indicted-in-special-counsel-robert-muellers-probe.html

Though it does appear the contacts in the Trump campaign *from this effort* were 'unwitting'. (AKA useful idiots)
https://twitter.com/srl/status/964559595401342978


This is really weak tea. The charges are mostly regarding wire fraud, fraud, identity theft, etc. I really can't see how this partisan group of petty thieves is equivalent in any way to the National Endowment for Democracy or even RT in terms of funding or influence. Seriously, please tell me this is not what took down the American Republic.

John Swanson
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Re:

16 Feb 2018 18:40

jmdirt wrote:The NRA is awful, but the blame is 100% on politicians.

This week has been revealing in so many ways. just like tragedies before, Trump steps to a microphone to conclude that the underlying cause to gun violence is mental health. 200 school shootings since Sandy Hook but no real progress.
.VA chief made up an elaborate like about a fictional awards ceremony and paid for the charade with our money.
Team Trump still have the @650 men and women proudly and bravely serving our country as part of the DACA clump of undesirable..

Trump made cancellation of a birth control education program by saying it's ineffective only to spend more of my tax money on the tried and true fully effective abstinence only education model..all young teens are sure to positively respond for sure..
Our President makes even the most bipolar episode suffered by one our more of Sybil's personalities seem boring..
Now finding out that he doesn't or can't read and left the reading and handling of the most sensitive and important classified material to people without clearance is appalling.. to see Trump use his heavy vetting skills to pick liar after liar mixed in with wife beaters is on par with the rest of his contempt for our country..he is a disgrace..
Stop paying porn stars and playing golf and protect our children you fat oozing hole seep
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Re: Re:

16 Feb 2018 18:52

ScienceIsCool wrote:This is really weak tea. The charges are mostly regarding wire fraud, fraud, identity theft, etc. I really can't see how this partisan group of petty thieves is equivalent in any way to the National Endowment for Democracy or even RT in terms of funding or influence. Seriously, please tell me this is not what took down the American Republic.

John Swanson
See this is where I differ greatly with you. I have a lot more sympathy for organizations that are up front about their views. If the Russians involved had wanted to elect Trump, I would've had no problem if they admitted that they were Russians trying to elect Trump. That is the same reason that I don't really care what RT does. I definitely think that they have an agenda, but at least they are not going to great lengths to hide their motivations. (I realize that the US has done plenty of shady things to other countries' elections too).

Someone else made a point on twitter this week that the Russians have gotten more mileage out of being discovered trying to skew the election than if they had done so covertly. Look at how much discord this has opened up. IMO, allowing their effort to be discovered was a feature, not a bug. And to answer the obvious question.... I don't think they feared starting a war over this.
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Re: Re:

16 Feb 2018 19:04

djpbaltimore wrote:
ScienceIsCool wrote:This is really weak tea. The charges are mostly regarding wire fraud, fraud, identity theft, etc. I really can't see how this partisan group of petty thieves is equivalent in any way to the National Endowment for Democracy or even RT in terms of funding or influence. Seriously, please tell me this is not what took down the American Republic.

John Swanson
See this is where I differ greatly with you. I have a lot more sympathy for organizations that are up front about their views. If the Russians involved had wanted to elect Trump, I would've had no problem if they admitted that they were Russians trying to elect Trump. That is the same reason that I don't really care what RT does. I definitely think that they have an agenda, but at least they are not going to great lengths to hide their motivations. (I realize that the US has done plenty of shady things to other countries' elections too).

Someone else made a point on twitter this week that the Russians have gotten more mileage out of being discovered trying to skew the election than if they had done so covertly. Look at how much discord this has opened up. IMO, allowing their effort to be discovered was a feature, not a bug. And to answer the obvious question.... I don't think they feared starting a war over this.


You're an intelligent, reasonable guy. I'm open to being 100% wrong and will admit it publicly. Could you please list the reasons why you think that Russia (the government) was any way interfering with the election? Maybe I'm blind to it, but I haven't seen anything.

John Swanson
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16 Feb 2018 20:03

Likewise, I respect your opinion in the clinic and cafe as much as anyone else that posts on the site, even when we disagree. That being said, how the F would I know why they did it. I am as ill-equipped to answer questions about the psychology of this situation as I would be to divine the motivations of the Las Vegas shooter. From my link yesterday, Julian Assange seemed to believe that the Russians were pretty paranoid about potential US actions against them. Admittedly, Assange is the definition of the unreliable narrator, but it isn't far-fetched to think that a US house divided is less likely to exert influence on the world stage. From this indictment, the fact that the Russians started to turn their guns on Trump soon after the election would indicate that the partnership with Trump was mostly a temporary marriage of convenience. Possibly they thought he was the agent to create the most internal discord. Or maybe it was more about the sanctions. Or maybe their motivations evolved from 2014 when this part of the operation began before Trump and the election itself.
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16 Feb 2018 20:07

Justice Dept says that they have a payment history for political protests and activists working for Russia..Rosenstein careful to say that there is no evidence or criminal accusation that any American knowing participated in any activity financed or organized by Russia.
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Re:

16 Feb 2018 20:46

djpbaltimore wrote:Likewise, I respect your opinion in the clinic and cafe as much as anyone else that posts on the site, even when we disagree. That being said, how the F would I know why they did it. I am as ill-equipped to answer questions about the psychology of this situation as I would be to divine the motivations of the Las Vegas shooter. From my link yesterday, Julian Assange seemed to believe that the Russians were pretty paranoid about potential US actions against them. Admittedly, Assange is the definition of the unreliable narrator, but it isn't far-fetched to think that a US house divided is less likely to exert influence on the world stage. From this indictment, the fact that the Russians started to turn their guns on Trump soon after the election would indicate that the partnership with Trump was mostly a temporary marriage of convenience. Possibly they thought he was the agent to create the most internal discord. Or maybe it was more about the sanctions. Or maybe their motivations evolved from 2014 when this part of the operation began before Trump and the election itself.

I'm sorry. Your post is well reasoned and articulate - I even agree with the sentiment - but I failed at making my request.

What I meant, is could you please list the verifiable facts that make you believe any of this?

John Swanson
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Re: Re:

16 Feb 2018 23:54

ScienceIsCool wrote:
djpbaltimore wrote:Likewise, I respect your opinion in the clinic and cafe as much as anyone else that posts on the site, even when we disagree. That being said, how the F would I know why they did it. I am as ill-equipped to answer questions about the psychology of this situation as I would be to divine the motivations of the Las Vegas shooter. From my link yesterday, Julian Assange seemed to believe that the Russians were pretty paranoid about potential US actions against them. Admittedly, Assange is the definition of the unreliable narrator, but it isn't far-fetched to think that a US house divided is less likely to exert influence on the world stage. From this indictment, the fact that the Russians started to turn their guns on Trump soon after the election would indicate that the partnership with Trump was mostly a temporary marriage of convenience. Possibly they thought he was the agent to create the most internal discord. Or maybe it was more about the sanctions. Or maybe their motivations evolved from 2014 when this part of the operation began before Trump and the election itself.

I'm sorry. Your post is well reasoned and articulate - I even agree with the sentiment - but I failed at making my request.

What I meant, is could you please list the verifiable facts that make you believe any of this?

John Swanson


Trump & the Russians seemed very buddy-buddy in the infamous WH meeting. But I believe too it was Anti-Hillary more then pro-Trump by Putin. Flynn & Erik Prince's shenanigans https://theintercept.com/2017/11/28/blackwaters-erik-prince-met-with-ceo-of-russian-direct-investment-fund/will make interesting reading if the full story is known.
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Re: Re:

17 Feb 2018 01:01

ScienceIsCool wrote:Could you please list the reasons why you think that Russia (the government) was any way interfering with the election? Maybe I'm blind to it, but I haven't seen anything.

John Swanson


French say: no one can be more blind than the one who doesn't want to see.

#1: Hillary the hawk, her record, taking down Khadafi, a long-time friend of Russia, made her an ennemy.
#2: Democrats/Obama/HRC and Ukraine. Adolf's Sudetenland.
#3: Encourage alternative, anti-establishment: make America fight with each other. Support Trump and Sanders, independents.
#4: Send trolls to the forums, Fesses-Bouc, others. :)
#5: Back to reasons why: dossier. Tape in the hotel room? Like the Stormy affair but with pictures saying a thousand of words? Blackmail? Trump protecting Baron? If so, yikes.

I can go on and on, I digressed a lot, didn't stick to the scholar and fake posting of links...you see what I mean.
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Re: Re:

17 Feb 2018 02:40

macbindle wrote:


The first of those articles aligns with your take on things, I suspect.

I do wonder if the author is crediting the Trump administration with a little too much in the way of formulated ideological drive. So much of their approach seems like sheer and almost wilful incompetence to me.

But whatever, it was a good read, and the author is right to align Trump and Brexit in terms of their enabling drivers.


Yeah, more or less. He doesn’t fully drive or theorize potential reasons for an overall turn to authoritarianism in the world. Nor the potential of the populist backlash’s. Or touch fully on the argument that with the loss of a clear cold war enemy and economy, there was a concomitant domestic crackdown in the name of “security” to replace the enlightened civil ideals that governed the domestic cold war years—that crackdown which has led to a greater dissipation of any national public. And not being economically inclined, he doesn’t run through the splintered economic practices that followed the accumulation crisis of the 70s. Etc.

I put the second article there as my sense is most economists are thinking as if there’s one economy, not several. Even Trump is not that stupid even if it’s not clear what all he’s gaming. Or thinks he is. I think there’s some tactics in there. I’m not sure if he attributes ideology to the Trump admin, as the inherited direction in many cases of previous admins.
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17 Feb 2018 02:52

Tonton's list of observations is good.. could also add that Hillary was critical of Russia about the treatment of religious minorities .. basically told to STFU by Russian leadership and their UN reps
The work Russia is doing is made easier by Trump's lack of knowledge of history and basic government function.
If one Russian objective was to cast doubt on the ballot system, the use of illegal and straw voters I would say that they have achieved the goal. With a great deal of help from Trump.
Many espionage efforts are made harder by an evolving American culture were your sexual orientation and financial records are made more public from an earlier time in your life.
Trump has turned back time, not only denying most basic principles of transparency but having secrets in every aspect of his life. Been in office a year and it's public record that he has paid over $250,000 dollars in hush money. Nobody knows the extent of foreign cash in his professional, political and personal dealings.
I would have thought it almost impossible to get to high political office with so much baggage.. time will tell if the dirt turns into something solid or possibly criminal.
If anything materializes about secret recording\ videos of the Donald getting down with Russian hookers that may do him a favor..he is a filthy liar..
It would appear that Hillary's run was a one and done. She and Bill are probably happy and lucky to not be at the top of Putin's list.. if Clinton were in office, Bill's sexual misconduct would be an equal or greater distraction..
Time will tell if Russian operatives start to organize Bill's #metoo backlog.. for now anti Hillary has been effective but I think if it were to die down her husband's habits will have political polarization power of nuclear strength. I don't know to what extent a Russian led Hillary hate campaign was effective but my own observation is she and her husband did lots of work without Putin's influence.
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17 Feb 2018 03:01

The issue is that the only viable enemy to the US is China. Enemy, not potential aggressors. When the US superseded the UK as world Empire, their shared history and interests made that transtion relatively frictionless and beneficial on both sides. To those with interests. Whatever the grim austerity of UK postwar; sterling benefited when the dollar went free floating. At the the same cost to labor as a political body and then class. It’s not clear how that will play with China. Morever, Dems and Repubs are fractured as US interests are fractured and there are no clear forward goals, just regressive ideologies and life ghettos. Assange and Russians are merely exploiting that fissure and are only threats insofar as they signal its reality.
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17 Feb 2018 08:49

In terms of direct one-to-one war? Yes...but that isn't how things work at the moment. Proxy wars are the way to go. The Russians have done a pretty good job in the Middle East, which is most likely why Trump is shoring up with Israel in a move that will challenge Iran.

I hear the Chinese are busy in Africa, as well as making the moves that will push the US out of the South China Sea. The Chinese play a long game and it won't be Trump that faces a confrontation. Did I read recently that Trump was to meet with Kissinger? Interesting. Kissinger was recommending cautious coexistence with China a few years back in his book.

In the short term North Korea is probably the biggest challenge to the US. The hysterics over imminent nuclear attack on US cities are not the problem, it's the nuclear proliferation issue in and beyond the Korean peninsula. If the Norks are going to use nukes it will be against the South (much to US embarassment) but the bigger concern is that as soon as they have saleable technology it will be sold.

Of course some have it that the Norks are a pawn in a Sino-US proxy war.
(Warning: Posts may contain traces of irony)
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17 Feb 2018 11:43

(Warning: Posts may contain traces of irony)
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Re:

17 Feb 2018 13:51

jmdirt wrote:The NRA is awful, but the blame is 100% on politicians.


But almost $5 million going to members of Congress as bribes(campaign contributions)..nothing will happen, if killing 6 year olds didn't do it, this certainly won't.

And the best place to get that data is from the statistics section of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, which records how many weapons are manufactured by each US company each year. The data shows just over 2m rifles produced for domestic use by these manufacturers from 2000 to 2010 - the data does not come any more recent than that unfortunately.

One blogger points out that this could mean around 20% of rifles manufactured in the US are AF15-pattern weapons.


About 400,000 per year....

https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/dec/17/how-many-ar15-rifles-sold

Wonder if donnie has the balls to meet with Lori Alhadeff..doubt it..wonder if donnie will play golf while in FL(bet he will..)
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