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Andre Cardoso positive for EPO

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02 Jan 2018 14:25

Is him still with contract with Trek for the next season in case of a Bsample negative?
drebelo
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01 Mar 2018 14:55

According to ammattipyoraily on twitter, a Portuguese newspaper says the B-sample didn't confirm presence of EPO for sure

https://twitter.com/ammattipyoraily/status/969220074446999552

Case will now go to CAS as the Portuguese cycling federation still demand a ban. Seems like a very strange situation?

http://www.abola.pt/Nnh/Noticias/Ver/718622
User avatar LaFlorecita
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01 Mar 2018 15:45

Something fishy about the Cardoso case - A negative B sample MEANS no AAF.
yaco
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01 Mar 2018 17:34

The phrasing in the article is odd. I had assumed that an EPO test gave a binary present/not present result, but this sounds like there was some kind of ambiguity which sounds more like the kind of thing that can arise in a blood passport case or in a test for substances where the quantity rather than presence of a substance is at issue.
Zinoviev Letter
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Re:

01 Mar 2018 19:35

Zinoviev Letter wrote:The phrasing in the article is odd. I had assumed that an EPO test gave a binary present/not present result, but this sounds like there was some kind of ambiguity which sounds more like the kind of thing that can arise in a blood passport case or in a test for substances where the quantity rather than presence of a substance is at issue.


An EPO test results in bands of different shades.

Here's what it looks like

The band on the left is a negative test. The other two bands are positives. Cardoso's test apparently was somewhere in between.
User avatar GuyIncognito
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Re: Re:

01 Mar 2018 22:37

GuyIncognito wrote:
Zinoviev Letter wrote:The phrasing in the article is odd. I had assumed that an EPO test gave a binary present/not present result, but this sounds like there was some kind of ambiguity which sounds more like the kind of thing that can arise in a blood passport case or in a test for substances where the quantity rather than presence of a substance is at issue.


An EPO test results in bands of different shades.

Here's what it looks like

The band on the left is a negative test. The other two bands are positives. Cardoso's test apparently was somewhere in between.


Thanks for that.
Zinoviev Letter
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Re:

03 Mar 2018 16:36

LaFlorecita wrote:Case will now go to CAS as the Portuguese cycling federation still demand a ban.


The Portuguese newspaper article makes no mention to the Portuguese federation.

Its the CADS and LADS http://www.uci.ch/clean-sport/anti-doping/ both from the UCI itself who are requesting the suspension to be maintained.
iosonofuturista
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05 Mar 2018 01:18

If the newspaper report and the inferences we are drawing from it here are correct (two big ifs), it seems very likely that CAS will find in his favour.
Zinoviev Letter
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Re: Re:

05 Mar 2018 08:54

iosonofuturista wrote:
LaFlorecita wrote:Case will now go to CAS as the Portuguese cycling federation still demand a ban.


The Portuguese newspaper article makes no mention to the Portuguese federation.

Its the CADS and LADS http://www.uci.ch/clean-sport/anti-doping/ both from the UCI itself who are requesting the suspension to be maintained.

Sorry about that, I hadn't seen those abbrevations before so assumed they were Portuguese.
User avatar LaFlorecita
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05 Mar 2018 10:22

This story about the first EPO tests in cycling and different A and B results may be relevant here https://www.podiumcafe.com/2011/6/6/2209300/the-curious-case-of-the-iuml-and-the-epo-positive-that-wasnt
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05 Jul 2018 15:54

It seems Cardoso is inclined to give up on the appeal. Not enough money for lawyers. The B sample was inconclusive.

http://www.velonews.com/2018/07/news/cardoso-epo-case-highlights-inequalities-in-anti-doping-process_471394
carolina
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05 Jul 2018 16:06

So bad timing for Cardoso to have an ongoing case?
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05 Jul 2018 16:21

I wonder how many sporting associations exercise the power to disregard an inconclusive B Sample ? Is this standard across all sporting associations ?
yaco
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Re:

05 Jul 2018 19:29

carolina wrote:It seems Cardoso is inclined to give up on the appeal. Not enough money for lawyers. The B sample was inconclusive.

http://www.velonews.com/2018/07/news/cardoso-epo-case-highlights-inequalities-in-anti-doping-process_471394

This is so sad.
User avatar LaFlorecita
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05 Jul 2018 23:06

It is, but simultaneously it's quite convenient timing that he elects to give up on the appeal process right now. Either the Froome decision has highlighted to him that his only hope is fighting with enough money to take it to the system, money that he doesn't have, or he has been considering this for a while but the public reaction to the Froome case and its serious implications left him in the position where he could back down and still save face, as the little guy trying to fight his corner in the face of a machine that is being perceived as one rule for the rich and one for the poor.
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06 Jul 2018 01:35

the little fish gets done. It seems he has a good case. If he had the money he could get off. It is very sad.
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06 Jul 2018 07:19

This exact situation is described by Vaughters and Ross Tucker last few days. It won't have anything to do with the size of Cardoso's wallet if he gets off or not on this, as it's a lab and WADA review process not legal defence process required. If the lab says the B sample ATFd for EPO but the A sample is already an AAF for EPO, there's not much lawyers can do unless they prove the ATF and AAF lab process is flawed and there is no EPO in the samples. You can't fight good science with good lawyers on this in my opinion. I guess they could fight the rules that an AAF + ATF shouldn't be considered an ADRV, but that would be fighting the rules with something else, not the science, so unlikely.
samhocking
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Re:

06 Jul 2018 08:05

carolina wrote:It seems Cardoso is inclined to give up on the appeal. Not enough money for lawyers. The B sample was inconclusive.

http://www.velonews.com/2018/07/news/cardoso-epo-case-highlights-inequalities-in-anti-doping-process_471394

that's a bull sh1t situation..
rick james
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Re: Andre Cardoso positive for EPO

06 Jul 2018 08:29

I can't see how he could ever have fought this legally. His A sample will always have confirmed recombinant EPO in it. The B Sample ATF'd which means it has it too, but is not leaning enough into what was seen in the A sample and although doesn't happen often, he's certainly not the first this has happened to. I don't think if Froome had an AAF and ATF, even his money couldn't overturn WADA. That would need expert witnesses to basically say the EPO test not only doesn;t work, but can find recombinant EPO that isn't there as a false positive? Seems highly unlikely that could ever be fought legally to me?
samhocking
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06 Jul 2018 08:36

Rich or poor you still get De Boer. WTF?

And CAS does provide legal aid.
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