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World Championships Innsbruck 2018

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Re:

25 Apr 2018 14:06

Bardamu wrote:Poels said he wants to be team leader of the Netherlands at the WC RR and that this Ardennes week was a test for Innsbruck. Well, that didn't pan out lol.


Wait... how does that work?
I'm not an expert, but isn't a test for a big event usually either:

A: On a similar (or identical) route
B: Shortly before said event
C: Both

Not... several months before said event, and on a quite different - if I'm not mistaken - route.
Aka The Ginger One.
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Re: World Championships Innsbruck 2018

25 Apr 2018 14:26

DFA123 wrote:
Gigs_98 wrote:I actually don't think he stepped up a level from last year.

Perhaps not, I guess it's too early to tell. But, at the very least, winning his first classic should have given a boost to his confidence, and given him a stronger claim to be leader, or at least have a free role in the French team.

Alaphilippe stepped up a level this season if you're counting on number of wins, especially FW victory. I think he's gaining more experience and racing smarter(still learning though).

As for poor performance at Paris Nice mountain stage, the weather was terrible and he performs poorly in cold condition, plus the climb was too long. At PV, he was under team order to take it easy on the last stages of the race. Not to make excuses, but we can all agree that Alaphilippe is a puncheur and not a climber.

He's not schedule to ride La Vuelta so not sure how his condition be coming into WCRR.
Last edited by can3478 on 25 Apr 2018 17:47, edited 1 time in total.
can3478
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Re: Re:

25 Apr 2018 15:10

RedheadDane wrote:
Bardamu wrote:Poels said he wants to be team leader of the Netherlands at the WC RR and that this Ardennes week was a test for Innsbruck. Well, that didn't pan out lol.


Wait... how does that work?
I'm not an expert, but isn't a test for a big event usually either:

A: On a similar (or identical) route
B: Shortly before said event
C: Both

Not... several months before said event, and on a quite different - if I'm not mistaken - route.


If I'm not mistaken that was said by Poels himself (according to a poster) :rolleyes:

And what similar route, shortly before said event, would you choose? I can't think of any...
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Re: Re:

25 Apr 2018 15:16

RedheadDane wrote:
Bardamu wrote:Poels said he wants to be team leader of the Netherlands at the WC RR and that this Ardennes week was a test for Innsbruck. Well, that didn't pan out lol.


Wait... how does that work?
I'm not an expert, but isn't a test for a big event usually either:

A: On a similar (or identical) route
B: Shortly before said event
C: Both

Not... several months before said event, and on a quite different - if I'm not mistaken - route.

Lol
rick james
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25 Apr 2018 15:28

The main issue for the Dutch for me is that the ITT both suits Dumoulin perfectly and is too long to not affect him for the road race.
Veni, Vidi, Kirby

I came, I saw, I was dead wrong as per usual
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Re: Re:

25 Apr 2018 15:32

Blanco wrote:
RedheadDane wrote:
Bardamu wrote:Poels said he wants to be team leader of the Netherlands at the WC RR and that this Ardennes week was a test for Innsbruck. Well, that didn't pan out lol.


Wait... how does that work?
I'm not an expert, but isn't a test for a big event usually either:

A: On a similar (or identical) route
B: Shortly before said event
C: Both

Not... several months before said event, and on a quite different - if I'm not mistaken - route.


If I'm not mistaken that was said by Poels himself (according to a poster) :rolleyes:

And what similar route, shortly before said event, would you choose? I can't think of any...


Hence why it was either A (similar route), B (shortly before), or C (similar route and shortly before).
Never D (different route and long before). Don't use 'D', D doesn't work.

I believe Poels said it, just not sure how he could ever think it would be any use.
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25 Apr 2018 16:45

Well since Poels got injured in PN and only just returned in time for the Ardennes, he was never going to be in form there
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25 Apr 2018 17:10

Surely the French support Bardet or Pinot - And if Guimard leads the team he will provide total team support for one rider.
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Re: World Championships Innsbruck 2018

25 Apr 2018 17:51

can3478 wrote:
DFA123 wrote:
Gigs_98 wrote:I actually don't think he stepped up a level from last year.

Perhaps not, I guess it's too early to tell. But, at the very least, winning his first classic should have given a boost to his confidence, and given him a stronger claim to be leader, or at least have a free role in the French team.

Alaphilippe stepped up a level this season if you're counting on number of wins, especially FW victory. I think he's gaining more experience and racing smarter(still learning though).

As for poor performance at Paris Nice mountain stage, the weather was terrible and he performs poorly in cold condition. At PV, he was under team order to take it easy on the last stages of the race. Not to make excuses, but we can all agree that Alaphilippe is a puncheur and not a climber.

He's not schedule to ride La Vuelta so not sure how his condition be coming into WCRR.

He missed the Areennes last year. Before the Ardennes his 2017 campaign was imo more impressive than 2018. yeah, he didn't have the two PV stage wins but he was impressive in MSR and his 2017 PN was imo better than 2018. At least it wasn't worse.
Moreover his Fall last year was incredible. He was clearly the strongest rider in the worlds and could have won lombardia too if only Nibali hadn't been so strong. Has he shown anything more impressive this year? I don't think so
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Re: World Championships Innsbruck 2018

25 Apr 2018 18:14

Gigs_98 wrote:
can3478 wrote:
DFA123 wrote:
Gigs_98 wrote:I actually don't think he stepped up a level from last year.

Perhaps not, I guess it's too early to tell. But, at the very least, winning his first classic should have given a boost to his confidence, and given him a stronger claim to be leader, or at least have a free role in the French team.

Alaphilippe stepped up a level this season if you're counting on number of wins, especially FW victory. I think he's gaining more experience and racing smarter(still learning though).

As for poor performance at Paris Nice mountain stage, the weather was terrible and he performs poorly in cold condition. At PV, he was under team order to take it easy on the last stages of the race. Not to make excuses, but we can all agree that Alaphilippe is a puncheur and not a climber.

He's not schedule to ride La Vuelta so not sure how his condition be coming into WCRR.

He missed the Areennes last year. Before the Ardennes his 2017 campaign was imo more impressive than 2018. yeah, he didn't have the two PV stage wins but he was impressive in MSR and his 2017 PN was imo better than 2018. At least it wasn't worse.
Moreover his Fall last year was incredible. He was clearly the strongest rider in the worlds and could have won lombardia too if only Nibali hadn't been so strong. Has he shown anything more impressive this year? I don't think so


He beat freaking Valverde on the Mur de Huy! Something no one did for five years :eek: I rate this as his finest single performance in his whole career so far, and I think he said something similar.
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Re: World Championships Innsbruck 2018

25 Apr 2018 18:19

Blanco wrote:
Gigs_98 wrote:
can3478 wrote:
DFA123 wrote:
Gigs_98 wrote:I actually don't think he stepped up a level from last year.

Perhaps not, I guess it's too early to tell. But, at the very least, winning his first classic should have given a boost to his confidence, and given him a stronger claim to be leader, or at least have a free role in the French team.

Alaphilippe stepped up a level this season if you're counting on number of wins, especially FW victory. I think he's gaining more experience and racing smarter(still learning though).

As for poor performance at Paris Nice mountain stage, the weather was terrible and he performs poorly in cold condition. At PV, he was under team order to take it easy on the last stages of the race. Not to make excuses, but we can all agree that Alaphilippe is a puncheur and not a climber.

He's not schedule to ride La Vuelta so not sure how his condition be coming into WCRR.

He missed the Areennes last year. Before the Ardennes his 2017 campaign was imo more impressive than 2018. yeah, he didn't have the two PV stage wins but he was impressive in MSR and his 2017 PN was imo better than 2018. At least it wasn't worse.
Moreover his Fall last year was incredible. He was clearly the strongest rider in the worlds and could have won lombardia too if only Nibali hadn't been so strong. Has he shown anything more impressive this year? I don't think so


He beat freaking Valverde on the Mur de Huy! Something no one did for five years :eek: I rate this as his finest single performance in his whole career so far, and I think he said something similar.



Beating Valverde on the Mur de Huy is exceptionally impressive even with Valverde admitting that he made a couple of mistakes on the climb (he still finished 2nd). Thus Alaphilippe is the only person in 5 years to beat Valverde even with him having made mistakes. That is very impressive. Yes Alaphilippe said that beating Valverde at Fleche Wallone is the most special win of his entire career and does not believe that one can be out done.
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Re: World Championships Innsbruck 2018

25 Apr 2018 18:40

Blanco wrote:
Gigs_98 wrote:
can3478 wrote:
DFA123 wrote:
Gigs_98 wrote:I actually don't think he stepped up a level from last year.

Perhaps not, I guess it's too early to tell. But, at the very least, winning his first classic should have given a boost to his confidence, and given him a stronger claim to be leader, or at least have a free role in the French team.

Alaphilippe stepped up a level this season if you're counting on number of wins, especially FW victory. I think he's gaining more experience and racing smarter(still learning though).

As for poor performance at Paris Nice mountain stage, the weather was terrible and he performs poorly in cold condition. At PV, he was under team order to take it easy on the last stages of the race. Not to make excuses, but we can all agree that Alaphilippe is a puncheur and not a climber.

He's not schedule to ride La Vuelta so not sure how his condition be coming into WCRR.

He missed the Areennes last year. Before the Ardennes his 2017 campaign was imo more impressive than 2018. yeah, he didn't have the two PV stage wins but he was impressive in MSR and his 2017 PN was imo better than 2018. At least it wasn't worse.
Moreover his Fall last year was incredible. He was clearly the strongest rider in the worlds and could have won lombardia too if only Nibali hadn't been so strong. Has he shown anything more impressive this year? I don't think so


He beat freaking Valverde on the Mur de Huy! Something no one did for five years :eek: I rate this as his finest single performance in his whole career so far, and I think he said something similar.

Ok, I give you that. Still I wouldn't say his ardennes shape was clearly better than his bergen shape. And most importantly he didn't ride the Ardennes last year so we can't say whether he already could have done the same last season
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Re:

25 Apr 2018 18:44

yaco wrote:Surely the French support Bardet or Pinot - And if Guimard leads the team he will provide total team support for one rider.


Are Pinot and Bardet as "good friends" as Demare and Bouhanni?
Aka The Ginger One.
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Re: World Championships Innsbruck 2018

25 Apr 2018 19:27

Gigs_98 wrote:
DFA123 wrote:
Gigs_98 wrote:Did people miss Paris Nice, pais vasco and the tour of the alps or why are we still talking about alaphilippe. What we saw last week was the super easy version of the WC route and it was already hard enogh for three climbers to distance the rest. It's beyond me how people can still think alaphilippe should be the French team leader.

I think looking at performances from the last few days of a stage race is a poor predicter for one day success. It seems like Alaphilippe has pretty poor recovery relative to top stage racers, but that's not really a factor in one day races. The big factor is being able to put out big repeated aerobic and anaerobic efforts on one day for 250+km, something which he has excelled at in the last few years.

His performances at Lombardia last year and the Olympic RR both suggest he is a contender. And he seems to have stepped up another level since then this spring.

Maybe a contender. If all climber teams are falling asleep on the first few laps, the real racing starts very late and you have better climbers looking at each other in the finale, yeah then maybe he has a chance. You know, just like people like Marc Soler have a very small chance, or Wilco keldermann, or davide formolo. The difference is, nobody is hyping those guys as one of the favorites and the leader of one of the strongest teams.

If Alaphilippe is with the leaders at the finish, he’ll be a strong favourite in a sprint against anyone but Valverde, maybe Kwiatkowski. France will also have Bardet, Barguil and Pinot to play as attacking cards who can all win from groups of 4 or less, but can save themselves when in those attacks as they will have Alaf in the main group behind.

Put simply, France will have multiple options that, say, Italy or Netherlands or Denmark won’t.
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Re: Re:

25 Apr 2018 19:50

RedheadDane wrote:
yaco wrote:Surely the French support Bardet or Pinot - And if Guimard leads the team he will provide total team support for one rider.


Are Pinot and Bardet as "good friends" as Demare and Bouhanni?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhC0EV38ihA :D

I'd say that this is way better than Bouhanni and Demare on the friendly side, but rivalry is still a thing....
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Re: Re:

25 Apr 2018 20:15

Chrispol wrote:
RedheadDane wrote:
yaco wrote:Surely the French support Bardet or Pinot - And if Guimard leads the team he will provide total team support for one rider.


Are Pinot and Bardet as "good friends" as Demare and Bouhanni?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhC0EV38ihA :D

I'd say that this is way better than Bouhanni and Demare on the friendly side, but rivalry is still a thing....


Of course they have the advantage of their rivalry being much more straightforward than Demare and Bouhanni was at first. Two guys riding against each other on different teams is just much better than two guys walking against each other on the same team.

Could Pinot or Bardet be convinced to work for the other?
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Re: World Championships Innsbruck 2018

25 Apr 2018 20:34

Could Pinot or Bardet be convinced to work for the other?


I’m sure it would depend on circumstance. Bardet is the better descender, Pinot the better sprinter/rouleur, so surely the plan would be to get Bardet clear before the final summit, and if that can’t be done then Bardet does his best to set up Pinot in the finale.
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Re: Re:

25 Apr 2018 20:37

RedheadDane wrote:
Chrispol wrote:
RedheadDane wrote:
yaco wrote:Surely the French support Bardet or Pinot - And if Guimard leads the team he will provide total team support for one rider.


Are Pinot and Bardet as "good friends" as Demare and Bouhanni?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhC0EV38ihA :D

I'd say that this is way better than Bouhanni and Demare on the friendly side, but rivalry is still a thing....


Of course they have the advantage of their rivalry being much more straightforward than Demare and Bouhanni was at first. Two guys riding against each other on different teams is just much better than two guys walking against each other on the same team.

Could Pinot or Bardet be convinced to work for the other?



Could they? Yes. The better question is, Will they? If this was the Worlds course 4-5 years ago you could have had for the Spanish team: Valverde, Contador, S Sanchez, Purito, etc. Could they work together, yes, would they have, Who knows.
Truthfully I'm not sure what the level of rivalry is with Bardet and Pinot either.
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Re: World Championships Innsbruck 2018

25 Apr 2018 20:47

Leinster wrote:
Could Pinot or Bardet be convinced to work for the other?


I’m sure it would depend on circumstance. Bardet is the better descender, Pinot the better sprinter/rouleur, so surely the plan would be to get Bardet clear before the final summit, and if that can’t be done then Bardet does his best to set up Pinot in the finale.

I think Pinot would get dropped by almost any other contender on that last descent. I know he's supposedly 'cured' his fear of descending, but he's still technically not very good - as we saw at Lombardia last year. Which makes it very complicated for him to win, imo, even though his sprint is certainly dangerous.
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25 Apr 2018 20:52

Of course there are many strong teams but Italy is imho the strongest.

Their possible line up:

Nibali
Aru
Moscon
Pozzovivo
Formolo
Caruso
Rosa
De Marchi
Or eventually also Pellizotti, Ciccone, Villella.
Riposa in pace, Michele!
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