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Chris Froome Discussion Thread.

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Re:

14 May 2018 08:36

PremierAndrew wrote:Wouldn't write off Froome yet. He needs to make about 2 mins on Dumoulin and 2.30 on Yates with a TT to go. Dumo isn't looking great and Yates will lose 1-1.30 in the TT. Today was the day after a crash on the exact same side he already crashed on and he's proven himself over 3 weeks multiple times along with being the only true stellar climber in this field.

Not looking good but would still give him similar chance of winning overall as Pinot personally

Agree. I wouldn't rule out him attempting an ambush style move as well on a flatter stage. And it could work. The team may not be at its best in the mountains, but it still has some very strong rouleurs. And Froome has shown before (e.g. 2016 tour) that he can be opportunistic and find different ways to make time.

Of course, if his form doesn't improve, then he'll get dropped like a stone on Zoncolan and Finestre anyway. But, he's still got a week or so to sort himself out before then. I feel the other GC riders really should have done more to absolutely put him out of contention by now.
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Re:

14 May 2018 09:32

Brullnux wrote:I genuinely think it's not form. He was fine at Trentino, and on track. It's not like sky to mess up their prep so badly that he actually gets worse in those two weeks. He isn't at his best, no, but it's the crashes which have brought him low. I mean, we all knwo how badly he reacts to crashing.


I tend to agree with this analysis. Hitting the deck twice -- and the first crash was harder than he let on, I think -- in the first week has got to have an effect.

I am not writing him off at all. But right now you'd have to say he's an outside shot for the podium, let alone finishing. Realistically, he's 6th or 7th in the GC standings ATM -- I assume at some point Chaves or Yates will have to be sacrificed, Woods, Dennis and Bilbao will fade, and I'm not convinced that Pozzovivo at age 35 is a GC contender. Froome is ahead of MAL and Aru, and normally you'd say he's pretty well placed.
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Re: Re:

14 May 2018 09:37

Bolder wrote:
Brullnux wrote:I genuinely think it's not form. He was fine at Trentino, and on track. It's not like sky to mess up their prep so badly that he actually gets worse in those two weeks. He isn't at his best, no, but it's the crashes which have brought him low. I mean, we all knwo how badly he reacts to crashing.


I tend to agree with this analysis. Hitting the deck twice -- and the first crash was harder than he let on, I think -- in the first week has got to have an effect.

I am not writing him off at all. But right now you'd have to say he's an outside shot for the podium, let alone finishing. Realistically, he's 6th or 7th in the GC standings ATM -- I assume at some point Chaves or Yates will have to be sacrificed, Woods, Dennis and Bilbao will fade, and I'm not convinced that Pozzovivo at age 35 is a GC contender. Froome is ahead of MAL and Aru, and normally you'd say he's pretty well placed.

I think this is a good analysis. He is in a decent position in the standings; considering he can gain over a minute on those above him (apart from Dumoulin) in the TT.

The problem is that he just looks awful right now. If his struggles are mainly a result of the crashes - muscle soreness and swelling - then I think he is still a real danger overall. Because he could easily be recovered from that by Zoncolan. If it is mainly because he doesn't have the form and is building towards a third week peak, then he's done for I think. He's not going to improve his conditioning enough in such a short time.
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14 May 2018 10:20

He came into the Giro underprepared, and is now wasting excess energy on recovering from multiple crashes and and hanging on for dear life. He's much more likely to get worse than he is to get better.
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Re: Re:

14 May 2018 10:35

DFA123 wrote:
PremierAndrew wrote:Wouldn't write off Froome yet. He needs to make about 2 mins on Dumoulin and 2.30 on Yates with a TT to go. Dumo isn't looking great and Yates will lose 1-1.30 in the TT. Today was the day after a crash on the exact same side he already crashed on and he's proven himself over 3 weeks multiple times along with being the only true stellar climber in this field.

Not looking good but would still give him similar chance of winning overall as Pinot personally

Agree. I wouldn't rule out him attempting an ambush style move as well on a flatter stage. And it could work. The team may not be at its best in the mountains, but it still has some very strong rouleurs. And Froome has shown before (e.g. 2016 tour) that he can be opportunistic and find different ways to make time.

Of course, if his form doesn't improve, then he'll get dropped like a stone on Zoncolan and Finestre anyway. But, he's still got a week or so to sort himself out before then. I feel the other GC riders really should have done more to absolutely put him out of contention by now.


Don't usually agree with these two, but do here. Obviously a bit of a disaster so far for Froome, but he's not out of it yet. An excellent ITT could see him recoup all of his losses on all but TD. The stage 8 crash may have cost him most of his stage loss yesterday. IF he is aiming for a third week peak then there is still hope for Sky fans.

But did I read that right? "Ambush", in association with Froome?

Though if he attacks on Finestre and takes back minutes he might even win some of us Contador fans over :D
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14 May 2018 10:46

Last year at the TdF we had the nutrition excuse, now it's ...

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/portal-chris-froomes-battle-to-win-the-giro-ditalia-continues/

"His legs aren't as strong as they could be, and he's had the crashes, too."


Bad/wrong/insufficient preparation (hubris creeping in?) plus now a seemingly very dodgy knee etc. Froome needs to take back 2 minutes on TommyD, beat him in the ITT, and hold off/wheel suck the climbers. Likely?
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Re:

14 May 2018 10:55

Robert5091 wrote:Last year at the TdF we had the nutrition excuse, now it's ...

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/portal-chris-froomes-battle-to-win-the-giro-ditalia-continues/

"His legs aren't as strong as they could be, and he's had the crashes, too."


Bad/wrong/insufficient preparation (hubris creeping in?) plus now a seemingly very dodgy knee etc. Froome needs to take back 2 minutes on TommyD, beat him in the ITT, and hold off/wheel suck the climbers. Likely?


Tour of South Africa at the beginning of the year takes its toll and we still haven't found out how's his asthma, maybe a problem too?
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Re: Re:

14 May 2018 13:53

Rollthedice wrote:
Robert5091 wrote:Last year at the TdF we had the nutrition excuse, now it's ...

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/portal-chris-froomes-battle-to-win-the-giro-ditalia-continues/

"His legs aren't as strong as they could be, and he's had the crashes, too."


Bad/wrong/insufficient preparation (hubris creeping in?) plus now a seemingly very dodgy knee etc. Froome needs to take back 2 minutes on TommyD, beat him in the ITT, and hold off/wheel suck the climbers. Likely?


Tour of South Africa at the beginning of the year takes its toll and we still haven't found out how's his asthma, maybe a problem too?


Are we not just seeing the normal May version of Froome?

To me, it was a massive shock that he elected to ride the Giro, i never thought he would let anything get in the way of going for TDF no. 5. Obviously the money on offer was too good to resist.

But was he ever really commited to trying to win the Giro....he was never going to say it publicly was he, but it looks increasingly like he never prepared himself for a serious tilt at this race, and his annual training is still built around peaking in July.

I really hope he gets to ride the Tour, just so that we can get some answers to the numerous questions that arise from the lacklustre showing at the Giro.
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14 May 2018 14:00

Plus the Giro is simply a different race than the Tour. More explosiveness because riders are fresher, and less controlled. Sky are struggling to control the race as well
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14 May 2018 14:05

He just proved that Giro-Tour double great perfomance is almost impossible. The same was with Quintana last year, but he was much more better at Giro and with no shape at TdF. For Chris Tour is much more important so we have Quintana-Tour2017 version now performed by CF-Giro2018.
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Re: Chris Froome Discussion Thread.

14 May 2018 14:13

Despite of what has happened the first week, despite the early crashes and yesterday's bad day, I'm not ready to discard the Magic Kenyan just yet. Il Giro is a very unpredictable race, with many surprises, that can allow him to turn the tables & perhaps have a chance to fight for the Maglia Rosa, despite his early loses - I can foresee him & Poels summoning their powers on the last week while others are fading....

we'll see...
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Re: Re:

14 May 2018 22:15

gregrowlerson wrote:
DFA123 wrote:
PremierAndrew wrote:Wouldn't write off Froome yet. He needs to make about 2 mins on Dumoulin and 2.30 on Yates with a TT to go. Dumo isn't looking great and Yates will lose 1-1.30 in the TT. Today was the day after a crash on the exact same side he already crashed on and he's proven himself over 3 weeks multiple times along with being the only true stellar climber in this field.

Not looking good but would still give him similar chance of winning overall as Pinot personally

Agree. I wouldn't rule out him attempting an ambush style move as well on a flatter stage. And it could work. The team may not be at its best in the mountains, but it still has some very strong rouleurs. And Froome has shown before (e.g. 2016 tour) that he can be opportunistic and find different ways to make time.

Of course, if his form doesn't improve, then he'll get dropped like a stone on Zoncolan and Finestre anyway. But, he's still got a week or so to sort himself out before then. I feel the other GC riders really should have done more to absolutely put him out of contention by now.


Don't usually agree with these two, but do here. Obviously a bit of a disaster so far for Froome, but he's not out of it yet. An excellent ITT could see him recoup all of his losses on all but TD. The stage 8 crash may have cost him most of his stage loss yesterday. IF he is aiming for a third week peak then there is still hope for Sky fans.

But did I read that right? "Ambush", in association with Froome?

Though if he attacks on Finestre and takes back minutes he might even win some of us Contador fans over :D


I could see Astana or Michelton trying a long range attack but it never seems to be part of Sky's calculating racing style. I think Froome would instead just aim for the podium and it seems he is already thinking that way. The next mountain stage should give a better idea of whether Froome is starting to recover or he simply won't. The rest day came at a good time for him.
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Re:

14 May 2018 22:58

Bot. Sky_Bot wrote:He just proved that Giro-Tour double great perfomance is almost impossible. The same was with Quintana last year, but he was much more better at Giro and with no shape at TdF. For Chris Tour is much more important so we have Quintana-Tour2017 version now performed by CF-Giro2018.


This may be accurate. Contador's Giro-Tour double (1st, 5th) may very well be the best results we see for a long time in the Giro/Tour double attempts. Quintana's attempt last year was a total disaster. Valverde's may be the most successful with his 3rd/6th only because of what his actual goals in the races were. As of now the jury is out on what Froome's success/failure is. Truthfully I expected something closer to Contador's results than Quintana's from Froome.
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Re: Re:

15 May 2018 00:47

Koronin wrote:
Bot. Sky_Bot wrote:He just proved that Giro-Tour double great perfomance is almost impossible. The same was with Quintana last year, but he was much more better at Giro and with no shape at TdF. For Chris Tour is much more important so we have Quintana-Tour2017 version now performed by CF-Giro2018.


This may be accurate. Contador's Giro-Tour double (1st, 5th) may very well be the best results we see for a long time in the Giro/Tour double attempts. Quintana's attempt last year was a total disaster. Valverde's may be the most successful with his 3rd/6th only because of what his actual goals in the races were. As of now the jury is out on what Froome's success/failure is. Truthfully I expected something closer to Contador's results than Quintana's from Froome.


Lol that makes no sense but whatever.

I really had a strong hunch Froome would do poorly at the Giro. Even before his pre prologue crash. I dunno.... It’s hard believing he can win a beautiful dynamic race like the Giro.
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Re: Re:

15 May 2018 00:51

Jspear wrote:
Koronin wrote:
Bot. Sky_Bot wrote:He just proved that Giro-Tour double great perfomance is almost impossible. The same was with Quintana last year, but he was much more better at Giro and with no shape at TdF. For Chris Tour is much more important so we have Quintana-Tour2017 version now performed by CF-Giro2018.


This may be accurate. Contador's Giro-Tour double (1st, 5th) may very well be the best results we see for a long time in the Giro/Tour double attempts. Quintana's attempt last year was a total disaster. Valverde's may be the most successful with his 3rd/6th only because of what his actual goals in the races were. As of now the jury is out on what Froome's success/failure is. Truthfully I expected something closer to Contador's results than Quintana's from Froome.


Lol that makes no sense but whatever.

I really had a strong hunch Froome would do poorly at the Giro. Even before his pre prologue crash. I dunno.... It’s hard believing he can win a beautiful dynamic race like the Giro.


Valverde's goal at the Giro was a stage win and a podium to get his completed set of GT podiums. He didn't go the Tour as race leader, that was Quintana in 2016. So he wasn't going to the Tour to actually try to win it. Technically he wasn't supposed to be riding for GC at all at the Tour.
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Re: Re:

15 May 2018 01:01

Koronin wrote:
Jspear wrote:
Koronin wrote:
Bot. Sky_Bot wrote:He just proved that Giro-Tour double great perfomance is almost impossible. The same was with Quintana last year, but he was much more better at Giro and with no shape at TdF. For Chris Tour is much more important so we have Quintana-Tour2017 version now performed by CF-Giro2018.


This may be accurate. Contador's Giro-Tour double (1st, 5th) may very well be the best results we see for a long time in the Giro/Tour double attempts. Quintana's attempt last year was a total disaster. Valverde's may be the most successful with his 3rd/6th only because of what his actual goals in the races were. As of now the jury is out on what Froome's success/failure is. Truthfully I expected something closer to Contador's results than Quintana's from Froome.


Lol that makes no sense but whatever.

I really had a strong hunch Froome would do poorly at the Giro. Even before his pre prologue crash. I dunno.... It’s hard believing he can win a beautiful dynamic race like the Giro.


Valverde's goal at the Giro was a stage win and a podium to get his completed set of GT podiums. He didn't go the Tour as race leader, that was Quintana in 2016. So he wasn't going to the Tour to actually try to win it. Technically he wasn't supposed to be riding for GC at all at the Tour.


I know all that. I wouldn’t talk about someone being more successful when they did worst, just because they set easier goals for themselves.
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Re: Re:

15 May 2018 01:05

Jspear wrote:
Koronin wrote:
Jspear wrote:
Koronin wrote:
Bot. Sky_Bot wrote:He just proved that Giro-Tour double great perfomance is almost impossible. The same was with Quintana last year, but he was much more better at Giro and with no shape at TdF. For Chris Tour is much more important so we have Quintana-Tour2017 version now performed by CF-Giro2018.


This may be accurate. Contador's Giro-Tour double (1st, 5th) may very well be the best results we see for a long time in the Giro/Tour double attempts. Quintana's attempt last year was a total disaster. Valverde's may be the most successful with his 3rd/6th only because of what his actual goals in the races were. As of now the jury is out on what Froome's success/failure is. Truthfully I expected something closer to Contador's results than Quintana's from Froome.


Lol that makes no sense but whatever.

I really had a strong hunch Froome would do poorly at the Giro. Even before his pre prologue crash. I dunno.... It’s hard believing he can win a beautiful dynamic race like the Giro.


Valverde's goal at the Giro was a stage win and a podium to get his completed set of GT podiums. He didn't go the Tour as race leader, that was Quintana in 2016. So he wasn't going to the Tour to actually try to win it. Technically he wasn't supposed to be riding for GC at all at the Tour.


I know all that. I wouldn’t talk about someone being more successful when they did worst, just because they set easier goals for themselves.


Regardless of goals set he was still more successful than Quintana. Yes Contador had the most successful attempt.
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Re: Re:

15 May 2018 01:38

Koronin wrote:
Regardless of goals set he was still more successful than Quintana. Yes Contador had the most successful attempt.


Yes of course.
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Re: Chris Froome Discussion Thread.

15 May 2018 04:23

Can somebody explain to me why riders and other people keep saying that Froome will become strong all of a sudden in the third week? Like he is not at his best right now but he will become good in the third week etc. Why?
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Re: Chris Froome Discussion Thread.

15 May 2018 04:45

Salvarani wrote:Can somebody explain to me why riders and other people keep saying that Froome will become strong all of a sudden in the third week? Like he is not at his best right now but he will become good in the third week etc. Why?


I agree, there's no reason to think it will happen, especially when he often gets (marginally) weaker in the third week of a Grand Tour.

But with Froome it is reasonable to be afraid of the unexpected and unprecedented. If he were to come out and win on Zoncolan by 10 minutes that would still be less remarkable than his transformation pre and post 2011 Vuelta.
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