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02 Feb 2019 06:42

Adam Waldman - another name in the US/Wikileaks/Russia triangle.
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/belarusian-model-claims-info-trump-russia-oleg-deripaska
A Belarusian model who claims to have information on ties between Russia and Donald Trump’s election campaign told The Associated Press on Friday that she has turned that material over to Russian billionaire businessman Oleg Deripaska.

Anastasia Vashukevich fueled speculation around possible ties between Trump and the Kremlin last year when she posted a video from a police van, saying she had 16 hours of audio and video proving ties between Russian officials and the Trump campaign that influenced the 2016 U.S. elections.
...
Russian publications The Bell and Proyekt last year pointed to another high-profile visitor who Vashukevich caught on tape spending time with Deripaska.

One video posted on her YouTube account showed a meeting between Deripaska and Adam Waldman, a U.S. lobbyist who has been working for Deripaska and who has had repeated meetings with WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange. The reported January 2017 meeting was several days before Waldman’s visit to Assange at the Ecuadorian Embassy in London.
"Are you going to believe me or what you see with your own eyes?"

Don't mention Khashoggi! It’s a collusion witch hoax!
User avatar Robert5091
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Re: Re:

02 Feb 2019 07:10

red_flanders wrote:
macbindle wrote:It's late and I need to sleep, but here are a couple of brief thoughts..

Sometimes people are accused of 'identity politics' even though they aren't part of the group for whom they are advocating.

Secondly, if people have certain core values then it isn't accidental that their views on related issues should converge with those with whom they share those core values. A belief in the destructive nature of capitalism is not orthogonal to thoughts on environmentalism for example.


Yes, generally people who share values will see things through a similar prism. I think the call here is to resist that to some extent, and certainly to resist seeing everything through that prism and try and be objective, if the goal is to get at some notion of truth.

You are right that public discourse seems increasingly tribal and the prismatic effects of social media algorithms must have a part to play, as well as the exploitation of fear and hate by political figures...including, arguably, to an extent by Peterson and Harris.


I don't know much about Peterson, as I find his manner so off-putting I can't listen to him. I find the idea that Harris exploits fear and hate to be very surprising, if I take your meaning correctly. He really seems to be exactly the opposite of that to me––calm, measured, thoughtful, and one who takes positions based on rational and largely dispassionate analysis.

When you get a moment, I'd like to understand how you see him as someone exploiting fear and hate. I'm genuinely surprised to hear that view. Thanks!



I'm thinking of Harris in terms of his interjections about Islam, made at a time when a dangeeous hysteria was being generated about Islam. It seems to have died down a little bit now, perhaps with the decline of IS, or at least Trump is fixating on other racial groups now.

It's now early morning and my brain is fuddled but I'm going to try and formulate some thoughts about the notion of 'identity politics', and suggest that it isn't a new thing perhaps, but just a collective noun for sociological conflict theories that have existed for a long time (feminism, Marxism etc) along with some issues which pertain to more modern times (LGBT rights etc).

It seems to me that LGBT issues, and in particular Trans issues, are the least settled, intellectually , and act as a lightening rod for anger towards all so-called 'identity politics'. Good old fear of teh gay.

Maybe when critics talk about 'cultural Marxism' being taught in universities, what they are really saying is that they don't like anything that isn't functionalist or new right ideas of society, and object to the notion that inequalities are structurally embedded, rather than being the result of the natural fecklessness of the disadvantaged group. Women: know thy place (and shut up and get on with the washing up, you'll enjoy it)

People like Peterson and Harris bother me because they offer the credibility of academia to the politics of hate, whilst ensuring that they make great financial gain.
Last edited by macbindle on 02 Feb 2019 07:53, edited 5 times in total.
(Warning: Posts may contain traces of irony)
User avatar macbindle
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02 Feb 2019 07:25

If identity politics is about tribal affiliation, then it's quite elementary that NRA gun pundits would be anti-environment, anti-immigrant, anti-socialist, anti-gender, etc., and that fascism is tribal prepotency personified, in so far as it works toward te suppression of all others.

On the other hand, as far as minorities and the subaltern classes are concerned, I've always taken the establishment of identity politics from the post-war era to indicate a pushback against civil and social injustices , inflicted by the hegemonic majority, or simply power group and its more or less fascist modus operandi. In thi sense, identity politics pertains ideally to democracy and the plurality of equality under the law.
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02 Feb 2019 11:33

Jesse Jackson: 'Hate and violence are raining down on our country'

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/feb/02/jesse-jackson-interview-jussie-smollett-hate-violence-us?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

So Smollet's masked attackers, whilst tying a noose around his head, shouted "This is MAGA country".

Don't suggest to them they might be fascists though. It might push them towards extremism ;)
(Warning: Posts may contain traces of irony)
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Re:

02 Feb 2019 13:21

macbindle wrote:Jesse Jackson: 'Hate and violence are raining down on our country'

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/feb/02/jesse-jackson-interview-jussie-smollett-hate-violence-us?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

So Smollet's masked attackers, whilst tying a noose around his head, shouted "This is MAGA country".

Don't suggest to them they might be fascists though. It might push them towards extremism ;)


Spot on. Loved Ellen Page's zinger on Colbert.

Now ... how many shades of gray removed ... is the Covington punk in comparison to these two Fascist ****?
Alpe73
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02 Feb 2019 13:44

Oh, look: it’s only taken two years for people to get over the initial shock and outrage to see what’s happening

https://www.counterpunch.org/2019/02/01/trumps-brilliant-strategy-to-dismember-u-s-dollar-hegemony/
aphronesis
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Re: U.S. Politics

02 Feb 2019 14:17

ScottSocal supported Trump.
I don't support Trump.
And where you get off calling others racist considering your own comments, is a mystery.


There is only one racist of note djtrump..plus those who support him...whether or not you do is of no interest to me. Call me any name you like but trump is the problem, the issue, facing the US today..he needs to go..asap...
User avatar Bustedknuckle
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Re: Re:

02 Feb 2019 14:31

macbindle wrote:I'm thinking of Harris in terms of his interjections about Islam, made at a time when a dangeeous hysteria was being generated about Islam. It seems to have died down a little bit now, perhaps with the decline of IS, or at least Trump is fixating on other racial groups now.

It's now early morning and my brain is fuddled but I'm going to try and formulate some thoughts about the notion of 'identity politics', and suggest that it isn't a new thing perhaps, but just a collective noun for sociological conflict theories that have existed for a long time (feminism, Marxism etc) along with some issues which pertain to more modern times (LGBT rights etc).

It seems to me that LGBT issues, and in particular Trans issues, are the least settled, intellectually , and act as a lightening rod for anger towards all so-called 'identity politics'. Good old fear of teh gay.

Maybe when critics talk about 'cultural Marxism' being taught in universities, what they are really saying is that they don't like anything that isn't functionalist or new right ideas of society, and object to the notion that inequalities are structurally embedded, rather than being the result of the natural fecklessness of the disadvantaged group. Women: know thy place (and shut up and get on with the washing up, you'll enjoy it)

People like Peterson and Harris bother me because they offer the credibility of academia to the politics of hate, whilst ensuring that they make great financial gain.


Again, kind of stunned by the use of the word "hate" here, as applies to Harris. When ISIS was at its height would seem to be the time for pointed critique of their ideas and motivations. This is what he had to say ISIS at the time, and I can't recommend it highly enough.

https://youtu.be/B_ToLv3rt1M

I'm quite troubled that comments like these or his similar comments could be labeled as hate, but maybe you can point to comments more in line with that word. Don't we think we should be able to criticize religious ideas, particularly if they are fueling attacks on our countries without being accused of forms ting hate? It's such a loaded word. To be fair, as an atheist his comments make a ton of sense to me, and I can certainly see how a religious person would be offended by them, but "hate"? I find that troubling.

I think the critique of behavior on university campuses is centered around the shouting down of people whose ideas one does not like, and the general impulse to stifle free speech. This appears to be coming mostly from the far left. Harris and others, myself included, are quite troubled by this, being very leftist ourselves., economically, socially, and politically. My father is was a university professor, and he's also shocked by the change in attitude toward speech and the free exchange of ideas which has occurred in the last decade, and he's well to the left of me on many issues.
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02 Feb 2019 14:43

I'm thinking of Harris in terms of his participation in a movement that led to hate, rather than as a direct purveyor of hatred. Yes, of course, we should criticise religious views but we have to be careful that in so doing we aren't furthering somebody else's malign agenda. I'm not sure what Harris's involvement did in terms of benefit to the people of the Middle East suffering under religiously justified oppression, but it is possible that it has contributed towards making life very uncomfortable for Muslims in the US.

I haven't watched your clip yet, but I will later, thank you. Admittedly, it is a while since I've read or listened to Sam Harris's ideas.
(Warning: Posts may contain traces of irony)
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Re:

02 Feb 2019 14:48

aphronesis wrote:Oh, look: it’s only taken two years for people to get over the initial shock and outrage to see what’s happening

https://www.counterpunch.org/2019/02/01/trumps-brilliant-strategy-to-dismember-u-s-dollar-hegemony/


And I wonder if Brexit can be viewed in the light of this. Not perhaps in terms of voter's inclinations but rather in terms of those behind the Leave campaign.
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02 Feb 2019 15:50

https://www.rawstory.com/2019/02/roger-stone-hiding-undisclosed-location-hes-worried-getting-jack-rubyed-documentary-filmmaker/
‘Are you staying at this hotel?’ and he said, ‘No, I’m staying at an undisclosed location because I don’t want to get Jack Rubeyed,” referring to the man who shot President John F. Kennedy’s assassin.

In the UK it's to be "Jo Coxed" - So Stone's (supposedly) scared, Cohen's afraid to testify and Manafort is scared s***less that the Russians will get him or his family. Welcome to Trumpworld!
"Are you going to believe me or what you see with your own eyes?"

Don't mention Khashoggi! It’s a collusion witch hoax!
User avatar Robert5091
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Re:

02 Feb 2019 15:59

aphronesis wrote:Oh, look: it’s only taken two years for people to get over the initial shock and outrage to see what’s happening

https://www.counterpunch.org/2019/02/01/trumps-brilliant-strategy-to-dismember-u-s-dollar-hegemony/


Bannon's comments showed the way - 'Economic nationalism' i.e. bully countries into seperate trade deals with the U.S.
https://edition.cnn.com/2017/02/23/politics/steve-bannon-world-view/index.html
Multilateral relationships are bad, bilateral relationships are good.

"I think one of the most pivotal moments in modern American history was (Trump's) immediate withdraw from (Trans-Pacific Partnership). That got us out of a trade deal and let our sovereignty come back to ourselves, the people. The mainstream media don't get this, but we're already working in consultation with the Hill. People are starting to think through a whole raft of amazing and innovative, bilateral relationships -- bilateral trading relationships with people that will reposition America in the world as a fair trading nation and start to bring jobs. High value added, manufacturing jobs, back to the United States of America."
"Are you going to believe me or what you see with your own eyes?"

Don't mention Khashoggi! It’s a collusion witch hoax!
User avatar Robert5091
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03 Feb 2019 08:06

https://www.axios.com/trump-ronny-jackson-chief-medical-adviser-3db0af04-cdfc-4944-a7d9-047ea7260f82.html
President Trump announced on Saturday that he has appointed Rear Adm. Ronny Jackson, the former VA secretary nominee who withdrew in April after being accused of alcohol abuse and overprescription of medication, to serve as his chief medical adviser.

Between the lines: The appointment — buried in a long list of other personnel announcements — shouldn't be a total surprise. Jackson couldn't survive the allegations by congressional Democrats at the time, but as Axios' Jonathan Swan has reported, he was always well liked within the White House. But CNN reports that Trump is also going one step farther — pushing for him to get a second star — even while the Pentagon is still investigating his behavior.


Ronny "mine's a double!" Jackson figured out that flattery works on Trump - lackey. Ironic really thinking about Trump's attitude to alcohol.
"Are you going to believe me or what you see with your own eyes?"

Don't mention Khashoggi! It’s a collusion witch hoax!
User avatar Robert5091
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03 Feb 2019 08:35

(*Not specically US Politics related, but here is a great Peterson interview where he gets skewered repeatedly by his interviewer, who won't let him get away with his bully boy tactics and isn't at all intimidated by his intellectual superiority schtick:

https://youtu.be/yZYQpge1W5s

(I cant decide which is my favourite bit. It might be where he's talking about his Lobster analogy and she points out that he's just using an animal that fits his argument and asks why he doesn't use Killer whales who live in matriachal family structures....he doesn't respond :lol: or where she kicks the Lobster schitt into the bin with the words "“Lobsters don’t get depressed. I think you’re anthropomorphising to a ridiculous degree. These are creatures that urinate out of their faces.”)

And here is Peterson whining about it later, back home with acolyte Joe Rogan:

https://youtu.be/lG7ynbKhYX4 )
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03 Feb 2019 11:41

https://www.smh.com.au/world/south-america/opposition-calls-for-venezuelan-wave-against-maduro-as-protests-swell-20190203-p50vc2.html
In a radio interview on Friday, national security adviser John Bolton suggested Maduro would end up in Guantanamo Bay if he didn't leave power.

"I wish him a long, quiet retirement on a pretty beach far from Venezuela," Bolton said. "And the sooner he takes advantage of that, the sooner he's likely to have a nice, quiet retirement on a pretty beach rather than being in some other beach area like Guantanamo."


more at https://www.commondreams.org/news/2019/02/01/yiiiiikes-john-bolton-threatens-send-venezuelas-maduro-offshore-us-prison-guantanamo

So, they're "going to make him an offer he cann't refuse"? Geezus!
"Are you going to believe me or what you see with your own eyes?"

Don't mention Khashoggi! It’s a collusion witch hoax!
User avatar Robert5091
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Re:

03 Feb 2019 14:36

Robert5091 wrote:https://www.smh.com.au/world/south-america/opposition-calls-for-venezuelan-wave-against-maduro-as-protests-swell-20190203-p50vc2.html
In a radio interview on Friday, national security adviser John Bolton suggested Maduro would end up in Guantanamo Bay if he didn't leave power.

"I wish him a long, quiet retirement on a pretty beach far from Venezuela," Bolton said. "And the sooner he takes advantage of that, the sooner he's likely to have a nice, quiet retirement on a pretty beach rather than being in some other beach area like Guantanamo."


more at https://www.commondreams.org/news/2019/02/01/yiiiiikes-john-bolton-threatens-send-venezuelas-maduro-offshore-us-prison-guantanamo

So, they're "going to make him an offer he can't refuse"? Geezus!


I wonder if the 'dirty tricks' division will have him 'go south', like the CIA did with Diem in South Vietnam..I also wonder how smart it is for Guaido to wander around in public..I'm sure he's on Maduro's ht list.

Bolton is talking out his ****..not even trump is dumb enough to wade into these politics with direct action...wait a minute..'dumb enough', why yes he is...
The United States has been quite transparent in its intentions regarding Venezuela - it is determined to get rid of the current government and install the unelected, self-declared president Juan Guaido.

The White House is very clear - it wants to overthrow the governments in Cuba, Venezuela and Nicaragua; and the US control over the world's largest oil reserves.


Yup, bring troops back from Middle East, send them to central/south america..
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03 Feb 2019 15:00

I don't see this happening overtly, frankly. Unless he can find a way to convince Americans that Maduro is a direct threat to the US.

Covertly...already happening, for sure.
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03 Feb 2019 15:08

aphronesis
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03 Feb 2019 15:57

Aphro's last couple of posts are not necessarily must reads but. .it may help us ordinary folks understand our actions in a more condensed format.
Am I scared standing in line at the grocery store or enjoying a delicious Dunkin product ?yes .
one reason is that only after @2 years of this that some of Trumps actions like lying and not listening to subject matter experts people are starting to realize that this is bad for us currently and in the future.
Recently I sat and listened to 2 very adult men (@40-50to)watch weather forecasts about the polar vortex extreme freeze, before the story ended both men dismissed global warming, climate change and the liberals that can see what they can't or won't. I didn't offer up my normal questions about time lapsed glacier photos and how can the drastic reduction in obvious ice be explained. .
Trump's most recent action in which appointed experts testified love on TV in front of congress, most answers were direct reading from a @40+ page report submitted for review and consideration. Trump looked at a group of reporters and cameras and basically said that the experts didn't testify as was seen by millions and was "fake news". When the president is apparently unaware of details about nuclear arms and current ears and threats to the US was alarming
Unchained
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03 Feb 2019 16:25

Trump is a simulacrum in his own hyperreality
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