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Kohl retires

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Kohl retires

25 May 2009 13:46

At only twenty-seven years old, is he really retiring because he is tired of living a lie? Or is it a legal tactic to lessen criminal justice problems? Or does he not think he will be able to return to a top level team after his ban is completed?
"Listen, my son. Trust no one! You can count on no one but yourself. Improve your skills, son. Harden your body. Become a number one man. Do not ever let anyone beat you!" -- Gekitotsu! Satsujin ken
User avatar BroDeal
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25 May 2009 14:04

He's spilling the beans, breaking the omerta. He saw what happened with JJ.
User avatar Cobblestones
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25 May 2009 14:12

BroDeal wrote:At only twenty-seven years old, is he really retiring because he is tired of living a lie? Or is it a legal tactic to lessen criminal justice problems? Or does he not think he will be able to return to a top level team after his ban is completed?

As far as I am concerned he said that performing well without doping in cycling was impossible. That was his version. That does not leave a lot of hope for me as a fan.
User avatar Escarabajo
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jfarbs

25 May 2009 14:13

It's been a bad run for the Germans and Austrians. Good riddance to them.
jfarbs
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25 May 2009 14:17

Escarabajo wrote:As far as I am concerned he said that performing well without doping in cycling was impossible. That was his version. That does not leave a lot of hope for me as a fan.


Of course that's what he thinks. His thinking was already flawed to begin with. Since he himself was cheating he was probably justifying that to himself with the belief that everyone is cheating. And if he thought that then he probably thinks that now...
User avatar ingsve
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25 May 2009 14:19

BroDeal wrote:At only twenty-seven years old, is he really retiring because he is tired of living a lie? Or is it a legal tactic to lessen criminal justice problems? Or does he not think he will be able to return to a top level team after his ban is completed?


The two reasons he named in the press conference were:

1. If you break the omerta, you're not getting offers from any teams. Which says quite a lot about how the people in charge see doping;

2. As much as fans would love to think otherwise, It's currently impossible to win a major race without doping;
issoisso
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25 May 2009 14:21

ingsve wrote:Of course that's what he thinks. His thinking was already flawed to begin with. Since he himself was cheating he was probably justifying that to himself with the belief that everyone is cheating. And if he thought that then he probably thinks that now...


Martial Saugy from the Lausanne lab has said time and time again that every time they test riders' samples it's very clear that not many people are playing fair.
He also constantly laments that even though they can clearly prove that fact with their tests, they can't sanction the riders due to the criteria for a test to be declared positive being insanely high.
issoisso
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25 May 2009 17:21

ingsve wrote:Of course that's what he thinks. His thinking was already flawed to begin with. Since he himself was cheating he was probably justifying that to himself with the belief that everyone is cheating. And if he thought that then he probably thinks that now...


he is in the pro peloton I think he has more knowledge on the subject than you do.
User avatar franciep10
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25 May 2009 17:36

His comments are interesting.
"I have voluntarily doped – in a system in which you can't win without doping. Talent, training and iron discipline just aren't enough at some point. Doping becomes the rule. A clean sport is unfortunately an exception."

Either his comments are just that or is he setting up all the other riders or even the Labs? He sounds very disgusted that he was the one that was caught. Well, you play with fire and you get burned.

I don't believe him, saying he retires. He is just disgusted with the penalty. He will be back.
Don't buy upgrades; ride up grades. - Eddy Merckx
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25 May 2009 17:48

He said too that he took EPO the first time when he was 19. He was tested around 200 times, 100 of them should have tested positive, he said too. Don't know if he is referring to positive tests cleaned by UCI or false negative tests.

Actually he is collaborating with Austrian police
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25 May 2009 20:00

BroDeal wrote:At only twenty-seven years old, is he really retiring because he is tired of living a lie? Or is it a legal tactic to lessen criminal justice problems? Or does he not think he will be able to return to a top level team after his ban is completed?


I'd say it's all of the above. What a waste at 27!.

Some of his quotes seem to indicate he wants to spill the beans on everything he knows, there are clearly many others and he can't believe he was the one caught.
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25 May 2009 20:09

issoisso wrote:1. If you break the omerta, you're not getting offers from any teams. Which says quite a lot about how the people in charge see doping;


Yes, Jorg Jaschke's experience proves your point.
User avatar Parrot23
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25 May 2009 20:17

Parrot23 wrote:Yes, Jorg Jaschke's experience proves your point.


Kohl's point. I'd like to make it very clear that I simply posted what Kohl and Saugy have said.
I'm not risking posting my opinion on these matters here. You never know what moron might try to sue ;)
issoisso
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25 May 2009 20:21

Yeah, I see the experience you've been having on some threads with a wheel-sucker throwing tin cans at you, LOL. :D
User avatar Parrot23
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25 May 2009 20:40

Retired? Is he retiring to prevent further investigation?

I want to know more about the Centrifuge! It was a group buy and at 60K Euro's (I think) who else was part of it? How this peice of the story is getting thrown under the carpet is beyond me! This goes to prove that the doping practices are reaching epic proportions and they're using top shelf devices which no mear weekend/domestique doper can afford. This vein of the story needs to be investigated much further and even if Kohl retires he needs to be doing a bit more explaining on the matter.

I think 2008/2009 will be known for the fall out of the German riders with the known doping practices.
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25 May 2009 20:59

He's now facing criminal investigations. Retiring from cycling won't help him there. It has been reported many reputable places that Kohl bought the centrifuge with Rasmussen. You might want to check 'Der Spiegel' or some other German-language media outlets about it. It's not precisely swept under the rug.

ETA: http://www.kurier.at/sportundmotor/319590.php Link
User avatar Cobblestones
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25 May 2009 21:18

Last year I went to see some of the Giro. One day I got talking to a rider before the stage, it was the mountain TT to Plan de Cornes. I had never met or spoken to him before or vice versa, we were strangers. At the time the race was in the Dolomites and the guy was really struggling. He couldnt believe the pace in the mountains and could not believe the performances of a certain rider, he was also skeptical of the top guys and suggested they were on something other than bread or water.

Maybe this attitude could be put down to sour grapes but when the first guy we talked about was Emanuele Sella, you start to get a clearer picture of things, the pros have a good idea of what is possible or not and who is taking what. I look forward to the results from the tested Giro samples of 08. I want to see how accurate this pro was.

I would imagine Kohls opinion is mostly true but a little exaggerated out of bitterness, unortunately sad for cycling again but doping is still common I feel.
pmcg76
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25 May 2009 21:39

lookkg386 wrote:Some of his quotes seem to indicate he wants to spill the beans on everything he knows, there are clearly many others and he can't believe he was the one caught.


I would like to some one of these guys really lose it and start talking about other riders. Instead they can barely bring themselves to talk about their doctors.
"Listen, my son. Trust no one! You can count on no one but yourself. Improve your skills, son. Harden your body. Become a number one man. Do not ever let anyone beat you!" -- Gekitotsu! Satsujin ken
User avatar BroDeal
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25 May 2009 21:43

I find it quite difficult to take Kohl serious. Maybe he was on EPO his whole career, but it certainly is hard to imagine it being a coincidence that he tests positive shortly after his fantastic (and very surprising) TdF performance. In 2007, he finished 31st in the tour 73 minutes behind Contador. Not to mention his excellent 111th place in the 2005 Vuelta 1,58 ahead of GC hope Magnus Bäckstedt :) If he was on EPO on those occasions, he should sue the person that sold it to him ;)
kjetilraknerud
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25 May 2009 21:44

Cobblestones wrote:He's now facing criminal investigations. Retiring from cycling won't help him there. It has been reported many reputable places that Kohl bought the centrifuge with Rasmussen. You might want to check 'Der Spiegel' or some other German-language media outlets about it. It's not precisely swept under the rug.

ETA: http://www.kurier.at/sportundmotor/319590.php Link


Nice link and unfortuneatly the Spiegel story is only in German :(, I need to work in my German :rolleyes:
User avatar ElChingon
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