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Doping in XC skiing

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

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15 Mar 2019 08:50

Going back to Biathlon WC. Has anyone noticed how Germans suddenly got faster. For me the outstanding improvement is Peiffer. It was noticeable in all his starts so far capped by gold medal. The German women is another category itself when Herrmann is style of Wilhelm and Neuner from the past suddenly become accurate in last standing shot to grab gold, flying on the tracks as well. This has been the story of decades with German biathlon taken to another level in Olympics or WCH. Anyone else feeling a bit suspicious?
virenque216
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Re:

15 Mar 2019 09:00

virenque216 wrote:Going back to Biathlon WC. Has anyone noticed how Germans suddenly got faster. For me the outstanding improvement is Peiffer. It was noticeable in all his starts so far capped by gold medal. The German women is another category itself when Herrmann is style of Wilhelm and Neuner from the past suddenly become accurate in last standing shot to grab gold, flying on the tracks as well. This has been the story of decades with German biathlon taken to another level in Olympics or WCH. Anyone else feeling a bit suspicious?


Herrmann has always been fast skier, it's just that she has gradually learnt shooting too. By the way, apart from her and Dahlmeier no other German woman has been particularly impressive. Apart from Peiffer's gold no other German man has been in top 6 in individual events.

Personally I find the way Swedes nail their form for biathlon championships more impressive.

But you can find suspicious stuff in many things if you want. I think Germans in general have proven to be elite biathlon competitors for many decades, so I don't find their performance unusual. It would be unusual if they didn't win any golds, rather than if they won.
zarnack
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Re: Re:

15 Mar 2019 09:10

Peiffer is skiing much faster now then all season. Only handful of men run faster,suddenly.
Herrmann is doing what Neuner or Willhelm did in past, out shooting everyone on last standing shot and then fly away home. This is down to managing the fatigue and holding the riffle still. I know its not unusual because they've been doing that for decades. An incredible efficiency in peeking at the right time. but a little suspicious in my eyes.

Herrmann has always been fast skier, it's just that she has gradually learnt shooting too. By the way, apart from her and Dahlmeier no other German woman has been particularly impressive. Apart from Peiffer's gold no other German man has been in top 6 in individual events.

Personally I find the way Swedes nail their form for biathlon championships more impressive.

But you can find suspicious stuff in many things if you want. I think Germans in general have proven to be elite biathlon competitors for many decades, so I don't find their performance unusual. It would be unusual if they didn't win any golds, rather than if they won.[/quote]
virenque216
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15 Mar 2019 10:36

Swedes are at home so they have targeted that championship. They are very good at shooting, but not so impressive on skis.
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16 Mar 2019 13:12

no one will convince me that Herrmann is not on juice looking at todays relay
virenque216
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16 Mar 2019 13:29

add Dahlmeier to that list, ridiculous
virenque216
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Re:

16 Mar 2019 15:08

virenque216 wrote:no one will convince me that Herrmann is not on juice looking at todays relay



Well she was already busted as a 19 year old.
BullsFan22
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16 Mar 2019 16:03

Leg 4 ski time:
1 Dahlmeier
2 Olsbu Røiseland +6,8
3 P Fialková +10,7
4 Yurlova-Percht +18,6
5 Braisaz +21,5

Leg 3 ski time:
1 Herrmann
2 Kuzmina +20,6
3 Eckhoff +29,4
4 Magnusson +56,7
5 Kaisheva +1'01,5

Obviously having 3 of the top 5 fastest skiers in the World Cup on the same leg makes the gap down to Magnusson, Kaisheva et al huge, but Herrmann's ski time is clearly a much bigger outlier than Laura's. Laura had a great final lap trying to chase down Semerenko, but her actual time relative to competition isn't THAT outstanding, especially as Røiseland stopped to get the flag and eased across the line, it's just the Laura last lap breakdown that we've seen time and again in the past. If anything, I think this was a return to business as usual for Dahlmeier, whereas Herrmann taking such significant time out of Nastya and Tiril is much, much more notable, especially as Tiril was fighting for the win. And this is time outside of the range, so doesn't include Tiril's penalty loop.
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16 Mar 2019 17:33

Am I wrong or have the austrian biathletes gotten slower post Ehrfurt-raids?
John de Savage
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17 Mar 2019 16:57

Although I am doubtful that it will happen, the day Bolshunov is busted will be a good day for x-country.
"This comment qualifies as a shining example of the "anyone who disagrees with my perspective is a dolt" leftist, intolerant mish-mash of shallow thinking." - Scott SoCal
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17 Mar 2019 19:17

Am i right in the assumption that the sudden steep decline of Fourcade can not possibly be blamed on his age (like claimed in TV). I mean, he was still dominant last year (togehter with Boe). Sure, let Boes outrun him. Fair enough. But he is not even competitive at this stage anymore. Seems very odd to me.
ppanther92
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Re:

17 Mar 2019 19:55

ppanther92 wrote:Am i right in the assumption that the sudden steep decline of Fourcade can not possibly be blamed on his age (like claimed in TV). I mean, he was still dominant last year (togehter with Boe). Sure, let Boes outrun him. Fair enough. But he is not even competitive at this stage anymore. Seems very odd to me.

There is clearly something that isn't normal, he says so himself. He can't even shoot straight anymore, but that may be related to lack of motivation given his disappointing results.
"This comment qualifies as a shining example of the "anyone who disagrees with my perspective is a dolt" leftist, intolerant mish-mash of shallow thinking." - Scott SoCal
User avatar frenchfry
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Re: Re:

17 Mar 2019 20:16

frenchfry wrote:
ppanther92 wrote:Am i right in the assumption that the sudden steep decline of Fourcade can not possibly be blamed on his age (like claimed in TV). I mean, he was still dominant last year (togehter with Boe). Sure, let Boes outrun him. Fair enough. But he is not even competitive at this stage anymore. Seems very odd to me.

There is clearly something that isn't normal, he says so himself. He can't even shoot straight anymore, but that may be related to lack of motivation given his disappointing results.

A minor injury or sickness in the offseason, some overtraining, perhaps an undetected virus infection... and suddenly you have a completely miserable season.

Although, of course, Northug is not much older than Fourcade, and he pretty much fell off, never to recover, at the age Fourcade is now. A decade of constant hard competition at the very top, with several years of very hard training already before that, and maybe their bodies just can't recover any more. Of that generation of skiers, Cologna seems like a shadow of his old self, as well, and Hellner already quit.
alternator
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Re: Re:

17 Mar 2019 20:32

frenchfry wrote:
ppanther92 wrote:Am i right in the assumption that the sudden steep decline of Fourcade can not possibly be blamed on his age (like claimed in TV). I mean, he was still dominant last year (togehter with Boe). Sure, let Boes outrun him. Fair enough. But he is not even competitive at this stage anymore. Seems very odd to me.

There is clearly something that isn't normal, he says so himself. He can't even shoot straight anymore, but that may be related to lack of motivation given his disappointing results.

I think the bad shooting is also party a direct consequence of his bad shape. To stay with competitors/lose not too much time he probably just has to go pretty deep or at least way deeper as in his prime. And that will not give him the best condition for the shooting.
ppanther92
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Re: Doping in XC skiing

17 Mar 2019 21:31

Another monster win by Johaug. She didn't comment the doping scandal in Seefeld before, but now she is ready.
https://www.expressen.se/sport/langdskidor/johaug-forfarligt-hor-inte-hemma-har/

"My starting point is that no one that starts in a race is not involved in things like this. I do only focus on myself and my own task". Way to go Johaug! We love you. :lol:

"I'm glad that a lot of work is going on behind the curtains. Evidently there is a lot going on that we are not aware of." Really? :eek:
Discgear
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Re: Doping in XC skiing

18 Mar 2019 10:16

Discgear wrote:Another monster win by Johaug. She didn't comment the doping scandal in Seefeld before, but now she is ready.
https://www.expressen.se/sport/langdskidor/johaug-forfarligt-hor-inte-hemma-har/

"My starting point is that no one that starts in a race is not involved in things like this. I do only focus on myself and my own task". Way to go Johaug! We love you. :lol:

"I'm glad that a lot of work is going on behind the curtains. Evidently there is a lot going on that we are not aware of." Really? :eek:


I guess she still believes lip-balm was an accident and nothing shady was going on...

Generally speaking though, the scizophrenia of sporting world has started to annoy me. I mean if you asked any athlete about doping, they would say that they don't do it. But it looks like many actually do. Certainly in skiing it seems like it has been kind of proven the front-runners were all on EPO in the 90's. I guess today's shady advanced methods would be revealed in 20 years' time as well.

From ethical point of view it all sucks badly. You can't trust anyone, they are all lying. Sad.
zarnack
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Re: Doping in XC skiing

18 Mar 2019 10:31

Discgear wrote:"My starting point is that no one that starts in a race is not involved in things like this. I do only focus on myself and my own task". Way to go Johaug! We love you. :lol:

"I'm glad that a lot of work is going on behind the curtains. Evidently there is a lot going on that we are not aware of." Really? :eek:

I'm afraid these translations are a bit off. The meaning is rather:

"I always assume that no one is involved in stuff like that", and

"I'm glad a lot of investigation is going on..."
el_angliru
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Re: Doping in XC skiing

18 Mar 2019 18:32

Who knows, maybe Fourcade isn't doping as much this year. Perhaps also brought down to earth by JT Boe's dominance.
BullsFan22
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18 Mar 2019 21:08

This season, Fourcade had changed of trainer and did a different preparation.
There is no reason to change of doping method if he dopes, without being caught. If he had been caught, he would not come back next year as he promised yesterday.
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