Log in:  

Register

Cancellara's risky bet - focus on LBL, Lombardia...

A place to discuss all things related to current professional road races. Here, you can also touch on the latest news relating to professional road racing. A doping discussion free forum.

03 Nov 2010 09:50

BroDeal wrote:I think Cancellara can do it. He lost Mendrisio by showing off how strong he was. With a more conservative approach he could have won.

I will be pulling for my man Cunego to win both races.


I also think Cancellara could manage it, but I emphasise the verb "manage". So many factors though, and so many other equal or more viable candidates.

I would like to see something from Cunego after a rather less than exciting 2010.
User avatar L'arriviste
Junior Member
 
Posts: 1,989
Joined: 23 Feb 2010 13:14
Location: Belgium

03 Nov 2010 09:58

about LBL,where do you think he will attack and try to go solo?any chance to see him attacking the peloton before cote du rosier,60 km to go then ITT?that will be epic.
User avatar jens_attacks
Senior Member
 
Posts: 12,530
Joined: 08 Sep 2009 18:00

03 Nov 2010 09:59

if LBL is a serious target, why on earth would you sign for a team with the Schleck brothers on it? he won't even be undisputed team captain.

i applaud him for his ambition going for the full set of monuments though.
galaxy1
Junior Member
 
Posts: 167
Joined: 27 Jan 2010 16:18

03 Nov 2010 10:01

galaxy1 wrote:if LBL is a serious target, why on earth would you sign for a team with the Schleck brothers on it? he won't even be undisputed team captain.

i applaud him for his ambition going for the full set of monuments though.


I think others have said it, but the Schlecks will probably just go all out for the Tour this year. That's the most reasonable explanation for the situation you mention, otherwise yes, you're right, it is a bit odd.
User avatar L'arriviste
Junior Member
 
Posts: 1,989
Joined: 23 Feb 2010 13:14
Location: Belgium

03 Nov 2010 10:17

I've thought about Cancellaras chances in LBL for a bit. I don't think his chances are very good. He is not going to win LBL. I don't see where he would be able to go solo nor can I see him finish faster then the likes of Gilbert, Cunego, Sanchez and others
User avatar Contre la montre
Junior Member
 
Posts: 87
Joined: 28 Oct 2010 06:53
Location: Rotterdam

03 Nov 2010 13:39

do it like Vino (and Contador): get away on the false flat, protected by a strong Frank & Andy duo to discurage any chasing...
I think he has more change with the Schlecks than without or against them.
Matthijs
Junior Member
 
Posts: 265
Joined: 25 Oct 2010 23:34

03 Nov 2010 18:00

Dekker_Tifosi wrote:I'd love to see someone beating Gilbert in Liege next year, and the year after, and after. It will help Belgians understand every year Dutch guys had after LBL with Boogerd


That wouldn't matter, he'd win other classics :p

EDIT: I think Cance can pull it of. He was ridiculously strong at Mendrisio. And he could do the same like Vino and Kolobnev this year, attack on a piece of false flat
Life's too important to be taken seriously
Doping sucks

Wouter, John and Xavi, you all will be missed.

hrotha wrote:You guys have an ancient barbarian mentality. Charge right in and be inevitably slaughtered by the superior foe, so that you can be buried with your sword and your silly notions of an "honorable fight".
and proud of it :D
User avatar Michielveedeebee
Senior Member
 
Posts: 3,801
Joined: 25 Feb 2010 08:54
Location: Kortrijk, Belgium

03 Nov 2010 20:42

He could, but I just don't see him do it on his very first try.

If he's really serious about this though then he'll most likely win all the monuments when his career is over. That descend on Lombardia where Gilbert attacked can do wonders for him. I reckon Cancellara is a pretty good descender.
Ryo Hazuki wrote:horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato


The Hitch wrote:Goss will woop boonens candy a[color="Black"]ss[/color] in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
User avatar El Pistolero
Senior Member
 
Posts: 14,298
Joined: 16 Jul 2010 21:53

03 Nov 2010 22:20

El Pistolero wrote:He could, but I just don't see him do it on his very first try.

If he's really serious about this though then he'll most likely win all the monuments when his career is over. That descend on Lombardia where Gilbert attacked can do wonders for him. I reckon Cancellara is a pretty good descender.
I'm not so sure that the Sormano descent would suit Cancellara. It's not a fast sweeping road like the ones in the Tour at all. There isn't any real place to use his power at all, it's more of a technical descent that favours an opportunist attack like Gilbert's. Cancellara wouldn't have any more advantage than Gilbert did this year.
User avatar ultimobici
Junior Member
 
Posts: 1,745
Joined: 17 Mar 2009 21:58
Location: London

03 Nov 2010 23:09

ultimobici wrote:I'm not so sure that the Sormano descent would suit Cancellara. It's not a fast sweeping road like the ones in the Tour at all. There isn't any real place to use his power at all, it's more of a technical descent that favours an opportunist attack like Gilbert's. Cancellara wouldn't have any more advantage than Gilbert did this year.


Well, besides power Cancellara also has a lot of technical skills. So that's why it could suit him(again, I have almost never seen Cancellara descend, so this is just me assuming)

I never said he would've gotten a bigger advantage than Gilbert, but Gilbert has already won it twice.
Ryo Hazuki wrote:horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato


The Hitch wrote:Goss will woop boonens candy a[color="Black"]ss[/color] in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
User avatar El Pistolero
Senior Member
 
Posts: 14,298
Joined: 16 Jul 2010 21:53

06 Jan 2011 19:26

maybe not in the 2011 season yet, according to today's interview:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/cancellara-says-leopard-trek-must-prove-it-is-a-dream-team

Turning to matters on the road, Cancellara hinted that while adding Liège-Bastogne-Liège and the Tour of Lombardy to his palmares remains an objective, his 2011 spring campaign is likely to be built around the cobbled classics once again.

“Winning all five monuments is a goal, not a dream,” he said, admitting that it may not necessarily happen this season. “The programme is planned until Amstel. I’m planning to be in big form on the start line in Milan, Bruges and Compiègne, along with the rest of the team. I still have Lombardy and Liège in my head, but there is time.”
la.margna
Junior Member
 
Posts: 674
Joined: 05 May 2009 22:15
Location: Switzerland

06 Jan 2011 19:40

El Pistolero wrote:Well, besides power Cancellara also has a lot of technical skills. So that's why it could suit him(again, I have almost never seen Cancellara descend, so this is just me assuming)

I never said he would've gotten a bigger advantage than Gilbert, but Gilbert has already won it twice.
Have you seen this one?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxXqQqAc2pA
User avatar ultimobici
Junior Member
 
Posts: 1,745
Joined: 17 Mar 2009 21:58
Location: London

06 Jan 2011 20:53

It was over a year ago now, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm sure those mendrisio climbs were no where near as steep as those in Liege.

Just don't see him keeping pace on those climb with the punchy climbers.
uphillstruggle
Junior Member
 
Posts: 543
Joined: 19 Jun 2009 19:31

07 Jan 2011 17:39

Could it be feasible that Canc and Gilbert would come to an agreement that FC won't challenge in Ronde and PR this year and PG the same in LBL and TdL to help them both in getting closer to the Grand Slam of monuments?
Jonny7c
Junior Member
 
Posts: 27
Joined: 18 Feb 2010 12:40
Location: Leeds, UK

07 Jan 2011 17:43

Jonny7c wrote:Could it be feasible that Canc and Gilbert would come to an agreement that FC won't challenge in Ronde and PR this year and PG the same in LBL and TdL to help them both in getting closer to the Grand Slam of monuments?


Gilbert is yet to win Liege Bastogne Liege so its unlikely he would agree to skip that. Moreover as a native of Liege and as a hilly specialist, its probably the race he most wants to win.

And Cancellara is nowhere near Giro di Lombardia form yet and is highly unlikely to win it this year so it would be stupid for him to swap RVV for GDL, unless the deal is that Gilbert doesnt ride GDL in 2013 or something. Also, if Canc skips RVV or PR, Gilberts chances of winning them rise significantly as there are fewer cobbled specialists, whereas Canc still has to face down 10 other hilly specialists if Gilbert doesnt do GdL or LBL.

If hes not good enough to take a peloton with Gilbert at LBL or GdL hes not going to be good enough to take a peloton without Gilbert at those races.

So it would not be a tit for tat move. Gilbert has a lot more to gain from such a deal, but i dont think it would happen anyway.
The Hitch: Winner 2013 Vuelta cq game. Winner, Velorooms prediction game 2012, 2013. 2nd all time cq rankings.
The Father of Clean Cycling, Christophe Bassons wrote:When I look at cycling today, I get the impression that history is repeating itself: riders who are supposed to be rouleurs are climbing passes at the front of the race, and those who are supposed to be climbers are riding time trials at more than 50 kilometres per hour.

The story is beginning again, just as it did 14 years ago


journalist with integrity.
User avatar The Hitch
Senior Member
 
Posts: 27,111
Joined: 14 Jun 2010 10:58
Location: London.

07 Jan 2011 17:50

The Hitch wrote:Gilbert is yet to win Liege Bastogne Liege so its unlikely he would agree to skip that. Moreover as a native of Liege and as a hilly specialist, its probably the race he most wants to win.

And Cancellara is nowhere near Giro di Lombardia form yet and is highly unlikely to win it this year so it would be stupid for him to swap RVV for GDL, unless the deal is that Gilbert doesnt ride GDL in 2013 or something. Also, if Canc skips RVV or PR, Gilberts chances of winning them rise significantly as there are fewer cobbled specialists, whereas Canc still has to face down 10 other hilly specialists if Gilbert doesnt do GdL or LBL.

If hes not good enough to take a peloton with Gilbert at LBL or GdL hes not going to be good enough to take a peloton without Gilbert at those races.

So it would not be a tit for tat move. Gilbert has a lot more to gain from such a deal, but i dont think it would happen anyway.


Fair comment. I just felt that both riders would have a much better chances of attaining the Grand Slam without the other challenging and therefore would both stand to gain in the long run. Though perhaps as you say PG would need to win LBL first.
Jonny7c
Junior Member
 
Posts: 27
Joined: 18 Feb 2010 12:40
Location: Leeds, UK

07 Jan 2011 18:37

Jonny7c wrote:Fair comment. I just felt that both riders would have a much better chances of attaining the Grand Slam without the other challenging and therefore would both stand to gain in the long run. Though perhaps as you say PG would need to win LBL first.


The better deal would be to have Spartacus work for Gilbert in RVV and the other way round in Liege/ Lombardy.

Actually for Gilbert the best deal would be to have Canc work for him at MSR a race i dont see him winning as easily as others here do. Have Canc go on the Cipressa descent, messing up the pack and tt Gilbert to the Poggio were Gilbert uses his own climbing and descending skills to get a bit of a gap and hope he can hold on.

For Cancellara have Gilbert attack constantly at LBL while team Leopard works for Canc, then on one final attack bring Cancellara with him and pace him as far as he can, then have Canc do the rest.

Neither provides guaranteed or even probable success but both can be helpful.

Neither is going to happen either, but interesting scenarios.
The Hitch: Winner 2013 Vuelta cq game. Winner, Velorooms prediction game 2012, 2013. 2nd all time cq rankings.
The Father of Clean Cycling, Christophe Bassons wrote:When I look at cycling today, I get the impression that history is repeating itself: riders who are supposed to be rouleurs are climbing passes at the front of the race, and those who are supposed to be climbers are riding time trials at more than 50 kilometres per hour.

The story is beginning again, just as it did 14 years ago


journalist with integrity.
User avatar The Hitch
Senior Member
 
Posts: 27,111
Joined: 14 Jun 2010 10:58
Location: London.

07 Jan 2011 18:42

I can't see Canc helping Gilbert in LBL. Too many hills in quick succession. If, in a hypthetical situation, he wanted to help Gilbert in a monument it's going to be either MSR or GDL. We've seen at the Tour that Cancellara can set a good pace on long climbs. He could do the same in GDL until he drops off to the back after running out of steam. But then again, Gilbert didn't really have a great team at GDL this year and still won. And next year, he'll have Jurgen helping him at GDL(he didn't enter this year because he was sick I think).

MSR is obvious, they could both escape and help each other to stay ahead of the sprinters. In a sprint at the finish, Gilbert can easily take on Cancellara.

The biggest problem for Gilbert will always be Paris-Roubaix. He'll have to drop both Boonen and Thor or else he won't win. In all other monuments and classics he can win the sprint in a small group, but not at Paris-Roubaix.

I see a Belgian winning the RVV next year anyway. It's going to be either Boonen or Gilbert. Stybar will also be an interesting factor if he goes to Quick Step. Might be a good domestique for Boonen at the RVV. I just don't hope Devolder wins.

MSR will be won by the sprinters this year(Freire, Boonen, Petacchi, Thor or Cavendish). The RVV by a Belgian. LBL by Andrew. P-R by Thor or Boonen. GDL by Gilbert for the third time in a row ^^. And Cancellara will show good form on the cobbled classics, but not win one.
Ryo Hazuki wrote:horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato


The Hitch wrote:Goss will woop boonens candy a[color="Black"]ss[/color] in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
User avatar El Pistolero
Senior Member
 
Posts: 14,298
Joined: 16 Jul 2010 21:53

07 Jan 2011 18:47

El Pistolero wrote:I can't see Canc helping Gilbert in LBL. Too many hills in quick succession. If, in a hypthetical situation, he wanted to help Gilbert in a monument it's going to be either MSR or GDL. We've seen at the Tour that Cancellara can set a good pace on long climbs. He could do the same in GDL until he drops off to the back after running out of steam.

MSR is obvious, they could both escape and help each other to stay ahead of the sprinters. In a sprint at the finish, Gilbert can easily take on Cancellara.


WTF are you talking about :confused:

I didnt say Cancellara would help Gilbert in LBL. I said the other way around. You seem so eager to repost your "Cancellara cant climb" piece for the hundredth time and "Gilbert is faster in a sprint" that you didnt even read the previous comments.

Espeically the bit johnny posted about how it would help them win the GRAND SLAM.

Why would Gilbert want Canc's help at Gdl when hes won it twice already:confused: That brings him no closer to the Grand slam.

And why would Cancellara work with Gilbert at MSR - a race hes already won, and then try to beat him in a sprint. It too brings him no closer to a gran slam, and as he has shown, if he wants to win MSR he doesnt need Gilbert to do it.

Maybe you should read things over and give us a new post ;)
The Hitch: Winner 2013 Vuelta cq game. Winner, Velorooms prediction game 2012, 2013. 2nd all time cq rankings.
The Father of Clean Cycling, Christophe Bassons wrote:When I look at cycling today, I get the impression that history is repeating itself: riders who are supposed to be rouleurs are climbing passes at the front of the race, and those who are supposed to be climbers are riding time trials at more than 50 kilometres per hour.

The story is beginning again, just as it did 14 years ago


journalist with integrity.
User avatar The Hitch
Senior Member
 
Posts: 27,111
Joined: 14 Jun 2010 10:58
Location: London.

07 Jan 2011 18:57

The Hitch wrote:WTF are you talking about :confused:

I didnt say Cancellara would help Gilbert in LBL. I said the other way around. You seem so eager to repost your "Cancellara cant climb" piece for the hundredth time and "Gilbert is faster in a sprint" that you didnt even read the previous comments.

Espeically the bit johnny posted about how it would help them win the GRAND SLAM.

Why would Gilbert want Canc's help at Gdl when hes won it twice already:confused: That brings him no closer to the Grand slam.

And why would Cancellara work with Gilbert at MSR - a race hes already won, and then try to beat him in a sprint. It too brings him no closer to a gran slam, and as he has shown, if he wants to win MSR he doesnt need Gilbert to do it.

Maybe you should read things over and give us a new post ;)


Just because you already won a Monument doesn't mean you don't want to win it again. I was talking about a hypothetical situation. Cancellara cannot help Gilbert at LBL or the other way around(which would be totally stupid). Working together with Cancellara at MSR would greatly augment his changes of victory. And I don't know if you watched MSR in 2008 but Gilbert played a role in Cancellara's victory... It was Gilbert who broke the peloton at the Poggio, not Cancellara.... If Gilbert didn't place his attack on the Poggio it would probably have been a sprinters game once again, unless someone else would have attacked on the Poggio in his place.

The only 2 Monuments where Gilbert and Cancellara would be of any use to each other are GdL and MSR.
Gilbert has shown he can break the peloton at the Poggio, Cancellara has shown he can stay ahead of eveyone else in the part after the Poggio. Hence why they would both be of great use to each other in a race like that. LBL is hill after hill. No way Cancellara can keep up attack after attack there and then do a final attack once more to win the whole thing. He can't even follow Gilbert up the Poggio. And you expect him to drop Gilbert on the Côte de Saint-Nicolas then? The Poggio is a joke compared to the hills of LBL.

The only way Cancellara can come back after he got dropped on a hill is on a descend or on a flat part. Just like at Beijing or at MSR(2008). LBL is hill after hill after hill after hill after hill.

Just like Cancellara is simply better on the cobbles and on the flat, Gilbert will always be better on the hills and the climbs. And I can give you 10 other names to replace Gilbert on the hills and the climbs. While I can only give you a few names to replace the name Cancellara at the cobbles. In fact, at the RVV, I can only give you one other name. And it's useless to talk about P-R because Gilbert never entered it or performed well in it. And neither the RVV, the Omloop or Gent-Wevelgem are an indication that he can do well at P-R.
Ryo Hazuki wrote:horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato


The Hitch wrote:Goss will woop boonens candy a[color="Black"]ss[/color] in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
User avatar El Pistolero
Senior Member
 
Posts: 14,298
Joined: 16 Jul 2010 21:53

PreviousNext

Return to Professional road racing

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 70kmph, aarononymous, archa55, Arredondo, Asero831, Ataraxus, bigjoeym, BigMac, Billie, Bushman, Carols, Cramps, davebqvst, del1962, DJ Sprtsch, dubexcalibur, Flamin, giuying, grizzlee, Hedser, ILovecycling, Jakob747, Josh Homme, JRTK73, LaFlorecita, Lord Stanley, MADRAZO, markene2, Matt92, Matt_W, Max Rockatansky, pastronef, Pharazon, Pierrot le Fou, pink_jersey, PremierAndrew, pylarz, Red Rick, rghysens, ruicarvalho, SafeBet, SemirS, Son of Amsterhammer, stefank, stetre76, Suck_Out, TommyGun, vedrafjord, Walter Morgan, winkybiker, zigzag wanderer, Zinoviev Letter and 285 guests

Back to top