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Young Aussies the best ever?

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27 Dec 2010 11:48

Ryo Hazuki wrote:they may be the best australia ever had. but colombia has far more and bigger talents. problem is with australians, their talent can't climb. same with americans and new zealand, uk talent. they are all track guys, too big for climbs

What they can do, however, or at least seem to be able to do much better than their Colombian counterparts, is adapt to European racing.
theyoungest
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27 Dec 2010 11:55

But we don't know that yet - some of them are already doing so, others are still youngsters in Australia, how are we supposed to know how they're going to develop? What you do in the juniors and U23s is irrelevant if you can't adapt to the seniors. The sport is littered with great prospects who just never managed to make the step up.

That's why we can't really say if this is the best ever generation until they've actually been in the pro péloton for a while. I mean, they have the potential to be Australia's best ever generation, but if they ALL fail to adapt (which I very much doubt, but bear with me here) they'll still not be as good as Stuie O'Grady's or Cuddles' generation, despite enormous potential.
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27 Dec 2010 15:20

I think Matthews is the most interesting talent and I really hope he will develop into a great allround rider. The fact that he and Rabo stated a few times that he will focus on sprinting next season is quite a shock to me.

A talent that is able to finish 6th overal in 'l Avenir and twice 8th in the mountain stages shows that he's incredibly allround if you ask me. Together with an incredible TT and sprint why would he focus on just the sprint?

He absolutely should keep on improving his sprint, but why just the sprint? :(
User avatar Kwibus
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27 Dec 2010 15:35

theyoungest wrote:What they can do, however, or at least seem to be able to do much better than their Colombian counterparts, is adapt to European racing.


sprints and itt yes, climbs, no.
User avatar Ryo Hazuki
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27 Dec 2010 16:04

Ryo Hazuki wrote:sprints and itt yes, climbs, no.

At least the Aussies do well at their specialty both at home and overseas.
theyoungest
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27 Dec 2010 19:46

theyoungest wrote:At least the Aussies do well at their specialty both at home and overseas.


you'll see duarte and betancur this year, if their team will be invited to the right races.
anyway , matthews, a great rider imho, has already seen colombian climbing talent in action, in europe, at the tour de l' avenir.
ask him, if you dont believe to ryo.
profff
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27 Dec 2010 20:33

Kwibus wrote:Are we talking about below 25? Because Gesink is still 24 isn't he?
Still I'm surprised you say this as a sworn anti dutch maffia person :D
I must say that Australia for a non-traditional cycling country is delivering great riders. Australia always finds it's way into the top of any sport which is impressive. Good mentality I guess.


Plus even I don't believe that. We have a good generation, better than the failing generation of Karsten Kroon and co and also better than the very narrow generation of Boogerd/E.Dekker/van Bon/Van Heeswijk.
But nowhere near, NOWHERE near, the generation of great Dutch riders in the beginning of the 80-ties.
Ofcourse, with the sport becoming very much more international than in the 70-ties or 80-ties, the succes achieved by the Belgians in the 70-ties and Dutchies in the beginning 80-ties are impossible for those countries to recreate. I don't think we'll ever have such times again. There's simply too much countries now where cycling is at a very good level.

And I think Australia has a wider talent pool than the Netherlands. But not the best generation of all countries. Besides, it's hard to predict what'll become of all those talents.
You do know only a few of them ever make the top?
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27 Dec 2010 22:20

i think that kai reus was a great talent. his bad luck deprived the dutch of a possible great rider

i agree that it is almost impossible for traditional cycling countries to recreate the successful dominating generations of the past, being the sport much more international than in 70ties and 80ties
profff
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27 Dec 2010 22:59

profff wrote:you'll see duarte and betancur this year, if their team will be invited to the right races.
anyway , matthews, a great rider imho, has already seen colombian climbing talent in action, in europe, at the tour de l' avenir.
ask him, if you dont believe to ryo.

I'm not talking about the U23 level. I'm talking about when they turn pro. That's when the Colombians tend to disappear.
theyoungest
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28 Dec 2010 10:57

Ryo Hazuki wrote:they may be the best australia ever had. but colombia has far more and bigger talents. problem is with australians, their talent can't climb. same with americans and new zealand, uk talent. they are all track guys, too big for climbs


You are right up to a point which is why Dan Martin rides for Ireland instead of GB
simo1733
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28 Dec 2010 12:52

Ryo Hazuki wrote:they may be the best australia ever had. but colombia has far more and bigger talents. problem is with australians, their talent can't climb. same with americans and new zealand, uk talent. they are all track guys, too big for climbs

Oh yes, can you tell me who the 2010 in Europe Colombian equivelant of Evans, Rogers, Porte, Lloyd were?
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28 Dec 2010 14:17

Tuarts wrote:Oh yes, can you tell me who the 2010 in Europe Colombian equivelant of Evans, Rogers, Porte, Lloyd were?


Ryo's talking about the list of prospects. Porte can borderline go into the set of prospects though he's a couple of years older than the other young Aussies being talked about in this thread. Evans, Rogers and Lloyd do not belong to that generation at all, they're established pros who've been around for years.

Colombia DOES have a generation of riders who look to be pretty amazing talents - Betancourt, Duarte, Henao, Urán, Quintana, Chalapud, Atapuma, Jaime Castañeda, Vergara and Sarmiento to name but a few. Those are the ones Ryo is comparing, not to the likes of Rogers and Evans, but to the likes of Meyer, Meyer, Bobridge, Matthews and co.

The Colombians match up pretty well with the Aussies in that respect - but as we've seen before, they don't necessarily travel to Europe well, and thus their potential is not fully capitalised on. Which is why we shouldn't hail a generation as golden until they've had a few years to mature in the pro ranks, as they could wind up failing to make that final step. The sport is littered with amazing prospects who took to the elite level like JaMarcus Russell or Ryan Leaf, and also with people who are still around and pretty good but never lived up to their amazing potential - Yaroslav Popovych and Mikhail Ignatiev are two that immediately spring to mind.

So yea, in terms of prospects, Colombia looks pretty good right now. But just cos they have great prospects doesn't mean that in ten years' time they'll have a huge number of top riders, just as Australia having a huge number of good prospects doesn't mean each and every one will live up to that potential.
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28 Dec 2010 15:48

Tuarts wrote:Oh yes, can you tell me who the 2010 in Europe Colombian equivelant of Evans, Rogers, Porte, Lloyd were?


You lose me when you say Porte. Im a big fan of Cuddles but when you guys mention Porte in the same breath, you show that you are being blinded by Patriotism.

No Colombian equivalent to Porte?

Juan Mauricio Soler Hernandez

1 Stage Tour de France
Tour de France, King of the Mountains (2007)

Beats 1 Stage Tour of Romandie, and a day in Pink thanks to a 12 minute break.

Actually Soler cancels out Lloyd.

Porte is cancelled out by Rigoberto Uran. A far brighter prospect for the future. Crashes took him out in stage 1 of Giro but he was domestiquing for Arroyo and still beat Porte on Grappa (when Porte was fighting to keep his pink) and when he was allowed to go for it on Platz the Corones, he finished just behind Basso in 7th.

Then you have Duarte and Henao coming up.

So Dodger has 3 world tt championships (1 tainted). He hasnt impressed in monuments or Gts and in Duarte Henao and Uran you have 3 gt competitors right there.

And Rujano may be Venezuelan but his Giro podium next year will show that the days of South Americans struggling in europe are OVER.
The Hitch: Winner 2013 Vuelta cq game. Winner, Velorooms prediction game 2012, 2013. 2nd all time cq rankings.
The Father of Clean Cycling, Christophe Bassons wrote:When I look at cycling today, I get the impression that history is repeating itself: riders who are supposed to be rouleurs are climbing passes at the front of the race, and those who are supposed to be climbers are riding time trials at more than 50 kilometres per hour.

The story is beginning again, just as it did 14 years ago


journalist with integrity.
User avatar The Hitch
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28 Dec 2010 16:28

All these Aussie prospects, can any of them bat or bowl?:D
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28 Dec 2010 21:06

theyoungest wrote:I'm not talking about the U23 level. I'm talking about when they turn pro. That's when the Colombians tend to disappear.


name me some examples??
User avatar Ryo Hazuki
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28 Dec 2010 21:07

Tuarts wrote:Oh yes, can you tell me who the 2010 in Europe Colombian equivelant of Evans, Rogers, Porte, Lloyd were?


we are talking here about talents, porte is the youngest guy you named and he is almost 26 :rolleyes:
User avatar Ryo Hazuki
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28 Dec 2010 21:39

Ryo Hazuki wrote:we are talking here about talents, porte is the youngest guy you named and he is almost 26 :rolleyes:



well ryo, porte is 26 , but he started cycling late.
he is in his rookie season , so we can accept him in this thread.
we'lll see if he can improve his climbing, which is his great limits.
profff
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28 Dec 2010 22:42

finish line of the montegrappa stage in giro bio:
http://www.cicloweb.it/sites/default/files/immagini/10undermomenti4.jpg
profff
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28 Dec 2010 22:51

Ryo Hazuki wrote:we are talking here about talents, porte is the youngest guy you named and he is almost 26 :rolleyes:

That's because you're not talking about the same thing. You're talking about raw u23 talent, Tuarts is talking about the ability of those riders to develop solid pro careers in Europe later on.
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28 Dec 2010 23:32

But the problem is, the thread is not about the Aussie generation including the likes of Evans and Rogers. It's about the young Aussies. And those ARE the same generation as the Colombians being mentioned above. It's not fair to judge Colombian potential talent against Australians who've been in the pro péloton for ten years. Need to judge like against like.
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