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[Green Edge] Shayne Bannan, Gerry Ryan and an Aussie Pro Team for 2012?

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15 Jun 2017 16:02

Seems like Mezgec will again go for the sprint tomorrow in Slovenia - A decent ride by Verona in Suisse who put himself into the break - Pity Plaza crashed out because if he brought his Giro form he could have won a stage from a break.
yaco
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18 Jun 2017 11:23

Haig will learn plenty of stage 3 of Slovenie - Once he matched Majka's accelerations he should have worked with the Pole - This would stop Visconti coming back three times on three separate occasions - Haig was at least the second strongest rider on that climb - Like to see Haig havea shot at GC in 2018 Tour of Suisse

Pics of Kreuziger, Howson, Chaves and S/Yates doing reconnaisance or the TDF route - Question is who will be the remaining five riders - Have Impey, Durbridge and Albasini as certainties - Last two spots from Gerrans, Hayman, Bewley and Keukeliere.
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Re:

18 Jun 2017 23:22

yaco wrote:Haig will learn plenty of stage 3 of Slovenie - Once he matched Majka's accelerations he should have worked with the Pole - This would stop Visconti coming back three times on three separate occasions - Haig was at least the second strongest rider on that climb - Like to see Haig havea shot at GC in 2018 Tour of Suisse

Pics of Kreuziger, Howson, Chaves and S/Yates doing reconnaisance or the TDF route - Question is who will be the remaining five riders - Have Impey, Durbridge and Albasini as certainties - Last two spots from Gerrans, Hayman, Bewley and Keukeliere.


Agree that they SHOULD give Haig GC opportunities at WT level one weekers next year (IF they don't let him slip through their fingers as I suspect some other teams may now have him on their radars). The issue is WHICH; TDS .... plausible enough.

As for TDS, pass mark on the scores that Albasini was thereabouts on a number of stages; Cort making a safe and increasingly stronger return to racing. Verona rode .... well enough considering this is post completed Giro. His poor TTing probably condemns him from any real development in a GC sense.

Seems they have now locked Howson into Tour .... was kinda hoping they pulled the switch to all out Vuelta. Seems to indicate Chaves/Howson; SY/Kreuziger as key man/chief lieutenant arrangements which probably now sheds further light on Dauphine strategy with Kreuziger and wishing to build a similar connection that Chaves and Howson have developed.

Your selections .... agree up to final two. Now that it seems that Chaves/Howson arelocked into Tour, then I'd have to say that Bewley then locks in as Chaves' pack minder. Last man .... would probably go Gerrans ahead of Hayman. Keukeleire I'd save for Vueta on the grounds that he's a rider who finishes the season strongly so why mess unnecessarily with something that works well for both rider and team
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19 Jun 2017 15:18

Keukeliere rode a one day race in Belgium on Sunday for the National squad and backs up for another race on Wednesday -He is an iron man of cycling - Doubt he will be at the TDF.
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Re:

20 Jun 2017 01:49

yaco wrote:Keukeliere rode a one day race in Belgium on Sunday for the National squad and backs up for another race on Wednesday -He is an iron man of cycling - Doubt he will be at the TDF.


Yeah, much as I feel he would be valuable at the Tour; I see no overwhelming reason to switch him out of the Vuelta where he may be of even greater value unless he, himself, is specifically pushing for a switch in his program.

Actually, with regards to the final spot on the team .... and I don't think it WILL happen; I'd really have no objection to seeing Mezgec given a run. He's quick and durable and is another flexible option for some selective finishes. He is also capable of being of genuine use from time to time on some tough uphill stages .... so you are not taking along a passenger. My observation has been that he seems to have gelled well with the team and I would have zero issue with him being retained for another couple of years, immaterial of what may/may not transpire next year with Ewan. He is of genuine value in his own right.
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Re: Re:

20 Jun 2017 15:56

dirkprovin wrote:
yaco wrote:Keukeliere rode a one day race in Belgium on Sunday for the National squad and backs up for another race on Wednesday -He is an iron man of cycling - Doubt he will be at the TDF.


Yeah, much as I feel he would be valuable at the Tour; I see no overwhelming reason to switch him out of the Vuelta where he may be of even greater value unless he, himself, is specifically pushing for a switch in his program.

Actually, with regards to the final spot on the team .... and I don't think it WILL happen; I'd really have no objection to seeing Mezgec given a run. He's quick and durable and is another flexible option for some selective finishes. He is also capable of being of genuine use from time to time on some tough uphill stages .... so you are not taking along a passenger. My observation has been that he seems to have gelled well with the team and I would have zero issue with him being retained for another couple of years, immaterial of what may/may not transpire next year with Ewan. He is of genuine value in his own right.


Let me throw out a scenario - Greipel is now 35 and his contract with Lotto Soudal finishes in 2018 - LS will need a new marquee sprinter - I reckon it will be either Ewan or Bennett - As it stands neither will ride the TDF in the foreseeable future - Orica's GC ambitions thwart Ewan, while Bennett will never ride the TDF with Sagan.
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Re: Re:

20 Jun 2017 22:55

yaco wrote:
dirkprovin wrote:
yaco wrote:Keukeliere rode a one day race in Belgium on Sunday for the National squad and backs up for another race on Wednesday -He is an iron man of cycling - Doubt he will be at the TDF.


Yeah, much as I feel he would be valuable at the Tour; I see no overwhelming reason to switch him out of the Vuelta where he may be of even greater value unless he, himself, is specifically pushing for a switch in his program.

Actually, with regards to the final spot on the team .... and I don't think it WILL happen; I'd really have no objection to seeing Mezgec given a run. He's quick and durable and is another flexible option for some selective finishes. He is also capable of being of genuine use from time to time on some tough uphill stages .... so you are not taking along a passenger. My observation has been that he seems to have gelled well with the team and I would have zero issue with him being retained for another couple of years, immaterial of what may/may not transpire next year with Ewan. He is of genuine value in his own right.


Let me throw out a scenario - Greipel is now 35 and his contract with Lotto Soudal finishes in 2018 - LS will need a new marquee sprinter - I reckon it will be either Ewan or Bennett - As it stands neither will ride the TDF in the foreseeable future - Orica's GC ambitions thwart Ewan, while Bennett will never ride the TDF with Sagan.


Yep, that;s how I'm seeing things. I realised as early as 2015 that Ewan was going to be an increasingly uncomfortable fit at Orica which is why I've been saying he needs to leave. Ewan replacing Greipel at LS works for me; issue will be whether Mr Bakker (Ewan's manager) gets too greedy. Not sure if Bennett goes off contract this season or next; he too would fit the bill at LS.
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21 Jun 2017 03:28

@Dirkprovin Sam Bennett is indeed out of contract this season. Ewan will get offered a new contract but I am starting to come around to the thinking that he might want to move on if he doesn't see the support that most sprinters need to be successful happening at Orica. Lotto would be a good place to land for a rider like him as he would get support and guidance also looking at the types of races they target he would get plenty of opportunities to shine. I wonder if Cannondale might look at him, they are a team desperately in need of a good sprinter and it wouldn't be hard to sign a couple of riders they could dedicate to him.
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Re:

21 Jun 2017 04:25

StryderHells wrote:@Dirkprovin Sam Bennett is indeed out of contract this season. Ewan will get offered a new contract but I am starting to come around to the thinking that he might want to move on if he doesn't see the support that most sprinters need to be successful happening at Orica. Lotto would be a good place to land for a rider like him as he would get support and guidance also looking at the types of races they target he would get plenty of opportunities to shine. I wonder if Cannondale might look at him, they are a team desperately in need of a good sprinter and it wouldn't be hard to sign a couple of riders they could dedicate to him.


There WILL continue to be a place for fast guys at Orica but they will be more the classics oriented brand rather than the pure bunch kick man who has limited classics options and relies heavily on a "train".

Both Cort and Edmondson look to fit Description 1 whereas Ewan fits far more into Description 2 (with his only real one day options being Hamburg and/or praying for a very soft pedalled version of Ride London or MSR). What I WOULD do next year, if I were Orica hierarchy, would be to fatten up his WT points tally early in the year (which would be a major selling point to teams desperate to build up their tallies for licence reasons) before parking him for the important races of the year.

Cannondale .... notionally attractive but have they really managed to get much right in any aspect over the past couple of years ? Could work .... but Lotto seems the safer option
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Re:

21 Jun 2017 07:35

StryderHells wrote:@Dirkprovin Sam Bennett is indeed out of contract this season. Ewan will get offered a new contract but I am starting to come around to the thinking that he might want to move on if he doesn't see the support that most sprinters need to be successful happening at Orica. Lotto would be a good place to land for a rider like him as he would get support and guidance also looking at the types of races they target he would get plenty of opportunities to shine. I wonder if Cannondale might look at him, they are a team desperately in need of a good sprinter and it wouldn't be hard to sign a couple of riders they could dedicate to him.


My suspicion is Coquard will end up at Cannondale - Will bring wins during the season, may win a GT stage,Cannondale have enough suitable riders to support his ambitions, and he offers a point of difference at a GT.

Bennett is off contract this year - He receives enough opportunities at Bora but will never ride the TDF, while Sagan is at Bora - He may be best to sign a new one year contract.

I believe teams can split GC and sprinter ambitions, but ultimately sprinters want to win all the time, and therefore are never happy - Cavendish at Sky in 2012 is a perfect example - Won three stages at the TDF but left after one year.
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Re: Re:

21 Jun 2017 08:00

yaco wrote:
StryderHells wrote:@Dirkprovin Sam Bennett is indeed out of contract this season. Ewan will get offered a new contract but I am starting to come around to the thinking that he might want to move on if he doesn't see the support that most sprinters need to be successful happening at Orica. Lotto would be a good place to land for a rider like him as he would get support and guidance also looking at the types of races they target he would get plenty of opportunities to shine. I wonder if Cannondale might look at him, they are a team desperately in need of a good sprinter and it wouldn't be hard to sign a couple of riders they could dedicate to him.


My suspicion is Coquard will end up at Cannondale - Will bring wins during the season, may win a GT stage,Cannondale have enough suitable riders to support his ambitions, and he offers a point of difference at a GT.

Bennett is off contract this year - He receives enough opportunities at Bora but will never ride the TDF, while Sagan is at Bora - He may be best to sign a new one year contract.

I believe teams can split GC and sprinter ambitions, but ultimately sprinters want to win all the time, and therefore are never happy - Cavendish at Sky in 2012 is a perfect example - Won three stages at the TDF but left after one year.


Your first conjecture .... that's a plausible enough scenario and could work out

Bennett - largely agree. Depends on just how desperate he is for a TDF run and how he and team directors at both Bora and other WT teams view his skills set/best prospects.

Your final paragraph .... depends on how the actual riders truly view themselves .... as straight out bunch sprinters OR primarily classics riders OR somewhere in between. Some migrate from one group to another as their careers progress. As for how teams can/may manage dual objectives; that is dependent on a number of factors such as how "full on" is their GC focus; is your sprinter one who is very labour intensive/requires a major allocation of specialised manpower or less so; how survivable is this sprinter ?
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23 Jun 2017 06:26

Daresay reduction in GT teams from 9 to 8 will have sime impact on Ewan's participation in GT at Orica.

Confirmed that Haig will ride the Vuelta.
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Re:

23 Jun 2017 07:04

yaco wrote:Daresay reduction in GT teams from 9 to 8 will have sime impact on Ewan's participation in GT at Orica.

Confirmed that Haig will ride the Vuelta.


Only GT it would stop Ewan riding at Orica is the TDF
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Re: Re:

23 Jun 2017 08:04

StryderHells wrote:
yaco wrote:Daresay reduction in GT teams from 9 to 8 will have sime impact on Ewan's participation in GT at Orica.

Confirmed that Haig will ride the Vuelta.


Only GT it would stop Ewan riding at Orica is the TDF


Disagree, it will most likely mitigate against his selection at ANY GT where Orica is seriously pursuing GC whilst he is at Orica. If the Giro proved nothing else, it was that Ewan was outpointed by bigger. stronger and more versatile riders like Gaviria and, to be more competitive, really needs far greater specialised support than Orica will be able to provide him whilst also pursuing GC ambitions.

Cut team numbers by one and it only brings it more into focus. He needs to find a team where he, and his ambitions, will be the team's primary focus for the race.
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23 Jun 2017 10:13

Orica-Scott for the Tour de France: Esteban Chaves, Simon Yates, Mat Hayman, Daryl Impey, Michael Albasini, Roman Kreuziger, Damien Howson, Jens Keukeleire and Luke Durbridge.
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Re:

23 Jun 2017 10:28

swuzzlebubble wrote:Orica-Scott for the Tour de France: Esteban Chaves, Simon Yates, Mat Hayman, Daryl Impey, Michael Albasini, Roman Kreuziger, Damien Howson, Jens Keukeleire and Luke Durbridge.

So Hayman ahead of Bewley
And Jensie in too
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Re: Re:

23 Jun 2017 10:41

swuzzlebubble wrote:
swuzzlebubble wrote:Orica-Scott for the Tour de France: Esteban Chaves, Simon Yates, Mat Hayman, Daryl Impey, Michael Albasini, Roman Kreuziger, Damien Howson, Jens Keukeleire and Luke Durbridge.

So Hayman ahead of Bewley
And Jensie in too


Interesting !! Hayman certainly adds an old experienced and shrewd tactical head and maybe they are looking at him as "road captain" letting the likes of Albasini, Keukeleire and perhaps Impey & Kreuziger in certain circumstances be given licence to contest certain finishes/go up the road.

Would have to think Bewley to Vuelta as Chaves' minder and Gerrans most likely as the road captain.

Keukeleire I would have thought would've been for the Vuelta where he's ridden well the past 2 years but he is a highly versatile rider and given sound health, should deliver value

My one slight concern actually concerns Howson's selection. IF it is the case that Chaves' main objective is going to be the Vuelta then it would then make more sense to then have his key lieutenant ride it with him rather than have him expend energy for far less purpose at the Tour and thus not be available when he would be of best utility. I suppose it now means that Plaza or Verona (quite possibly both) will be the main mountain supports to Chaves & AY at Vuelta. If Plaza rides at this Giro level then that's perfectly satisfactory; Verona .... still has more to prove
Last edited by dirkprovin on 23 Jun 2017 10:50, edited 1 time in total.
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23 Jun 2017 10:48

Can't see all these at Vuelta :
Chaves
Yates
Yates
Verona
Plaza
Haig
Bewley
Gerro
Cort
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Re:

23 Jun 2017 10:56

swuzzlebubble wrote:Can't see all these at Vuelta :
Chaves
Yates
Yates
Verona
Plaza
Haig
Bewley
Gerro
Cort


All three GC men at Vuelta ...... just plain crazy and most likely M.White talking out of his blowhole so one of the Yates (most likely SY) will probably be an 'out'. There is a TTT to start so they may look to add a rouleur to bolster the side in that regard.
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Re: [Green Edge] Shayne Bannan, Gerry Ryan and an Aussie Pro

23 Jun 2017 11:05

TDF squad is the best that could chosen in the circumstances. White will make the tough decisions as evidenced in Giro and TDF.

Bank it in certainties for Vuelta

A.Yates
Chaves
Bewley
Tuft
Plaza
Cort

Have to be careful with selection with the TTT.
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