Log in:  

Register

[Green Edge] Shayne Bannan, Gerry Ryan and an Aussie Pro Team for 2012?

A place to discuss all things related to current professional road races. Here, you can also touch on the latest news relating to professional road racing. A doping discussion free forum.

Moderators: Irondan, peloton, Eshnar, Red Rick, King Boonen, Tonton, Pricey_sky

20 May 2017 17:52

Chaves' injury was what forced them to send Simon to the Tour. Originally it was gonna be 2 (Yateses) at the Giro, 1 (Chaves) at the Tour, and 3 (all of them) at the Vuelta.
Aka The Ginger One.
User avatar RedheadDane
Veteran
 
Posts: 6,981
Joined: 05 May 2010 13:47
Location: Viking Land! (Aros)

Re:

20 May 2017 17:57

RedheadDane wrote:I'll never understand why they didn't keep Simon in the Giro.
2x Yates in the Giro.
Chaves + S. Yates in the Tour.
Chaves + A. Yates in the Vuelta.
2-2-2, seems like a pretty even way to do it...

Now it seems like they're going with a 1-2-3 approach... with their original plan of course being the 2-1-3 approach.


It was because each had their main target even though they will all ride 2 GT's - Adam was the Giro, Chaves TDF and Simon the Vuelta - It was easier to switch Simon to the TDF as he was less advanced in his program than Adam who was never changing from the Giro - Orica was worried because in the past, Adam's form tails off at the end of July - That's why Adam's main goal was the Giro - Apparently there were lots of behind the scenes discussions to arrange the changes - We shouldn't kid ourselves but Chaves is using the TDF for training.

Actually this gets to an interesting discussion who is currently better Adam or Simon ? I doubt there is much difference between the brothers at this stage - Think Simon is a more explosive climber and more tactically savvy, while Adam is probably stronger in the day-to-day grind of GC racing.
yaco
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,200
Joined: 20 Jun 2015 17:57

20 May 2017 18:00

That still doesn't explain why they couldn't have kept Simon in the Giro - with Adam of course being the main focus - and having him do the Tour too, but then not do the Vuelta.
Aka The Ginger One.
User avatar RedheadDane
Veteran
 
Posts: 6,981
Joined: 05 May 2010 13:47
Location: Viking Land! (Aros)

Re:

20 May 2017 18:13

RedheadDane wrote:I'll never understand why they didn't keep Simon in the Giro.
2x Yates in the Giro.
Chaves + S. Yates in the Tour.
Chaves + A. Yates in the Vuelta.
2-2-2, seems like a pretty even way to do it...

Now it seems like they're going with a 1-2-3 approach... with their original plan of course being the 2-1-3 approach.


It was because each had their main target even though they will all ride 2 GT's - Adam was the Giro, Chaves TDF and Simon the Vuelta - It was easier to switch Simon to the TDF as he was less advanced in his program than Adam who was never changing from the Giro - Orica was worried because in the past, Adam's form tails off at the end of July - That's why Adam's main goal was the Giro - Apparently there were lots of behind the scenes discussions to arrange the changes - We shouldn't kid ourselves but Chaves is using the TDF for training.

Actually this gets to an interesting discussion who is currently better Adam or Simon ? I doubt there is much difference between the brothers at this stage - Think Simon is a more explosive climber and more tactically savvy, while Adam is probably stronger in the day-to-day grind of GC racing.
yaco
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,200
Joined: 20 Jun 2015 17:57

21 May 2017 15:23

Noticed that Hepburn has done next to no work this Giro - Never had his nose in the wind - I can't imagine he''ll much to do next week.
yaco
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,200
Joined: 20 Jun 2015 17:57

Re:

21 May 2017 17:35

RedheadDane wrote:That still doesn't explain why they couldn't have kept Simon in the Giro - with Adam of course being the main focus - and having him do the Tour too, but then not do the Vuelta.

But then they'd risk not having anyone on form for the Tour since Simon would likely be spent from the Giro.
User avatar jaylew
Veteran
 
Posts: 5,195
Joined: 19 Mar 2009 05:46
Location: ATX

22 May 2017 10:46

Well, the "let Caleb finish the Giro" push didn't last too long did it ? For all the optics of him riding on the front on those last two stages. one can only ask "to what positive end did it serve other than 'optics'/a bit of theatre" ? Orica didn't REALLY need to have anyone riding on the front at those points and it wasn't as if he was really cutting the deficit to the break, IF you're going to go to the front, then let there be a clear purpose as to why and, furthermore, WHEN ? The reasoning for the work of Plaza & Verona later in the stage was very clear and served a purpose but all too often during this Giro, Orica has been expending energy and manpower needlessly. What was the reason for his "snap" withdrawal before the end of the stage unless he got completely dropped and wasn't likely to keep touch with the grupetto ? Edmondson had a crash and he has made it 2/3 of the way through, probably wisest to "pull the plug".

Gerrans finished 2nd overall at Tour of Norway after a number of 2nd/3rd place finishes. Apparently he extended some generosity to EBH by neutralising not far before the finish of the final stage so EBH could reconnect after a crash. Certainly a generous gesture and it DID cost him as EBH did win the stage and thus the overall but then again, we do not know the exact circumstances of the crash which may've had influenced Gerran's decision to do what he did.
dirkprovin
Member
 
Posts: 566
Joined: 13 Jul 2009 05:32

22 May 2017 12:34

If he - Ewan - had woken up in the morning maybe not feeling 100% (or... as many percents as can be reasonable to expect two weeks into a GT, don't think anyone is 100%), they might have decided that they might as well use him while they could, if he wasn't gonna get through the stage anyway... (Different team, of course, but bit like when Adam Hansen was sent to the front in the Tour despite having broken basically every bone in his upper body - "Er muss!")
Aka The Ginger One.
User avatar RedheadDane
Veteran
 
Posts: 6,981
Joined: 05 May 2010 13:47
Location: Viking Land! (Aros)

22 May 2017 16:49

Think Orica got full value in the last two stages from the sprint train of Ewan,Mezgec and Edmondson - Orica was chasing a stage victory so kudos for putting their hat into the ring - Last week will see Orica burning no matches as there is no reason to work - Flat riders to ride in the bunch to protect Yates, and Plaza and Verona will provide support in the mountains - Last week will be Yates following wheels and attacking if he is feeling good.

Provisional Orica start list for Dauphine

Chaves
Keukeliere
Impey
Gerrans
Howson
Kreuziger
S.Yates
Haig

Take out Haig,add two of Albasini/Hayman, Durbridge and that's probably your squad.

Note that Kreuziger,Keukeliere, Hayman and Durbridge have been training at altitude in France.
Last edited by yaco on 22 May 2017 17:20, edited 1 time in total.
yaco
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,200
Joined: 20 Jun 2015 17:57

Re:

22 May 2017 16:57

yaco wrote:Provisional Orica start list for Dauphine

Chaves
Keukeliere
Impey
Durbridge
Howson
Kreuziger
Yates
Haig


Simon, I presume...
Aka The Ginger One.
User avatar RedheadDane
Veteran
 
Posts: 6,981
Joined: 05 May 2010 13:47
Location: Viking Land! (Aros)

Re: Re:

22 May 2017 17:21

RedheadDane wrote:
yaco wrote:Provisional Orica start list for Dauphine

Chaves
Keukeliere
Impey
Durbridge
Howson
Kreuziger
Yates
Haig




Simon, I presume...


Yes, Simon.
yaco
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,200
Joined: 20 Jun 2015 17:57

Re:

23 May 2017 10:20

yaco wrote:Think Orica got full value in the last two stages from the sprint train of Ewan,Mezgec and Edmondson - Orica was chasing a stage victory so kudos for putting their hat into the ring - Last week will see Orica burning no matches as there is no reason to work - Flat riders to ride in the bunch to protect Yates, and Plaza and Verona will provide support in the mountains - Last week will be Yates following wheels and attacking if he is feeling good.

Provisional Orica start list for Dauphine

Chaves
Keukeliere
Impey
Gerrans
Howson
Kreuziger
S.Yates
Haig

Take out Haig,add two of Albasini/Hayman, Durbridge and that's probably your squad.

Note that Kreuziger,Keukeliere, Hayman and Durbridge have been training at altitude in France.

It will probably be Bewley in for Haig, and Durbridge or Hayman (probably Durbridge, Hayman doesn't enjoy GTs). Albasini and Gerrans is a redundant selection IMO. Bewley's finger should be fine, and Orica won't want to waste the form he's been building in Colombia. If it's not, then both Hayman and Durbridge.

Sky, Movistar and BMC should be concerned with this squad, especially if Stephens is directing. Good all round firepower.
User avatar 42x16ss
Veteran
 
Posts: 5,279
Joined: 23 May 2009 04:43
Location: Brisbane, Aus

Re: Re:

23 May 2017 11:48

42x16ss wrote:
yaco wrote:Think Orica got full value in the last two stages from the sprint train of Ewan,Mezgec and Edmondson - Orica was chasing a stage victory so kudos for putting their hat into the ring - Last week will see Orica burning no matches as there is no reason to work - Flat riders to ride in the bunch to protect Yates, and Plaza and Verona will provide support in the mountains - Last week will be Yates following wheels and attacking if he is feeling good.

Provisional Orica start list for Dauphine

Chaves
Keukeliere
Impey
Gerrans
Howson
Kreuziger
S.Yates
Haig

Take out Haig,add two of Albasini/Hayman, Durbridge and that's probably your squad.

Note that Kreuziger,Keukeliere, Hayman and Durbridge have been training at altitude in France.

It will probably be Bewley in for Haig, and Durbridge or Hayman (probably Durbridge, Hayman doesn't enjoy GTs). Albasini and Gerrans is a redundant selection IMO. Bewley's finger should be fine, and Orica won't want to waste the form he's been building in Colombia. If it's not, then both Hayman and Durbridge.

Sky, Movistar and BMC should be concerned with this squad, especially if Stephens is directing. Good all round firepower.


Agree Haig is most likely riding Vuelta rather than Tour. Bewley will most certainly be "in" as Chaves' dedicated minder. I see Durbridge as the other prime flat land engine although others such as Keukeleire. Impey and whichever one of Gerrans/Albasini (only one of those 2 will go) can offer assistance. Also give some credence to 42's remark re Hayman; he's always been much more a one-day man than a stage racer and they DO have other old shrewd heads to call on.

With a line up of Chaves, SY, Kreuziger, Howson, Impey, G or A, Keukeleire, Durbridge & Bewley; you have 2 outright GC men, 2 specialist mountain domestiques, 2 big flat land engine/big bodies to protect the little guys on the flat plus 3 rouleur types who can add support over a wide variety of terrain but can also freelance for wins at selective finishes w/o requiring major diversion of assets
dirkprovin
Member
 
Posts: 566
Joined: 13 Jul 2009 05:32

23 May 2017 16:43

I'd like to see Keukeliere in the team because he is a tactically savvy rider and can direct things on the road - The parcours for the TDF is weird, so it's a matter of taking time in strange places.

Hat's off to Plaza - Came into the Giro off a limited preparation and has done an outstanding job in a variety of terrains.
yaco
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,200
Joined: 20 Jun 2015 17:57

24 May 2017 16:34

Seems like Ewan will be stuck riding the Giro again in 2018,seeing the 2018 TDF is likely to have a TTT - And probably going up again against Gaviria.

Today's stage must have been slow if the whole Orica team which finished together in the peleton.
yaco
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,200
Joined: 20 Jun 2015 17:57

Re:

24 May 2017 17:03

yaco wrote:Seems like Ewan will be stuck riding the Giro again in 2018,seeing the 2018 TDF is likely to have a TTT - And probably going up again against Gaviria.

Today's stage must have been slow if the whole Orica team which finished together in the peleton.


If that is the case, I can most certainly see a most obscene competition between each of Chaves & the Yates twins as to who can kiss the bosses backside the most .... in order NOT to ride the Giro in 2018 and have their campaign compromised by taking along a resource intensive bunch sprinter. :twisted:
dirkprovin
Member
 
Posts: 566
Joined: 13 Jul 2009 05:32

Yesterday 16:51

Congratulations to Orica for giving their two main riders Ewan and A.Yates every chance in the Giro - The riders have done their best but have fallen a bit short - Probably one climber short and wrong lead out for Ewan.
yaco
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,200
Joined: 20 Jun 2015 17:57

Re:

Yesterday 17:05

yaco wrote:Congratulations to Orica for giving their two main riders Ewan and A.Yates every chance in the Giro - The riders have done their best but have fallen a bit short - Probably one climber short and wrong lead out for Ewan.


Hhhmm, can only agree in part. A couple of curious selections but not sure they'd have made an material difference.

First and foremost, Orica does not possess the climbing manpower to be able to field a Movistar or UK Postal (TDF) "train" but has had the capacity to take to the front to attempt some hard drives at various times. That was certainly one stupendous ride today by Plaza, not the first big effort from him at this Giro. Yates simply hasn't quite "had it" to be able to take full advantage; his own poor judgement put him in a deficit situation at Blockhaus but the fact has been that he's been in top 10 form rather than top 5.

As for Ewan, struggling to see that a change in personnel would have altered any outcomes. His results here basically indicate his place in the scheme of things; that of a second tier sprinter who is possibly faster than some ahead of him but possessing a much narrower skill set and range
dirkprovin
Member
 
Posts: 566
Joined: 13 Jul 2009 05:32

Previous

Return to Professional road racing

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Climbing, MnOz and 57 guests

Back to top