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Roman Kreuziger Discussion Thread

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29 Jan 2011 22:50

ergmonkey wrote:I think Kreuziger needs one solid year of learning, adjusting, and getting stronger while acting in the position of team leader in a GT.

A great season, in my opinion, would be a stage win or two along the way to a GT top-5--and preferably a Giro podium.

From there, he and his supporting cast could build with confidence towards a potential GT win the following year. After so much time riding with both the reduced pressure and the constrained opportunities of being third or fourth or fifth man at Liquigas, Kreuziger might need a transition year.

Long term, I'd much rather see him winning GTs than baby Schleck.


Agreed on the preference of Kreuziger winning a GT over Schlecklet.

We have to remember that grand tour success early in a rider's career isn't the norm and lack of grand tour success relatively early isn't a reason to write someone off. Evans, Sastre, Menchov and others in this generation didn't reach their highest placement in the grand tours until their late 20's and early 30's. Kreuziger still has time to gain experience, endurance and strength to put in a position to contend for the overall.
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29 Jan 2011 23:32

La Pandera wrote:Agreed on the preference of Kreuziger winning a GT over Schlecklet.

We have to remember that grand tour success early in a rider's career isn't the norm and lack of grand tour success relatively early isn't a reason to write someone off. Evans, Sastre, Menchov and others in this generation didn't reach their highest placement in the grand tours until their late 20's and early 30's. Kreuziger still has time to gain experience, endurance and strength to put in a position to contend for the overall.


But riders like Evans, Sastre and Menchov only started performing really well in GC's from their middle 20's on, and improved untill their late 20's, early 30's. Although there are exceptions, guys like Kreuziger who show incredible results at a very young age (already a great Tour at age 22) tend to peak pretty quickly. I would be suprised if he can keep improving like the more 'moderate growth' guys.
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30 Jan 2011 00:22

Lanark wrote:But riders like Evans, Sastre and Menchov only started performing really well in GC's from their middle 20's on, and improved untill their late 20's, early 30's. Although there are exceptions, guys like Kreuziger who show incredible results at a very young age (already a great Tour at age 22) tend to peak pretty quickly. I would be suprised if he can keep improving like the more 'moderate growth' guys.


Evan's wore the pink jersey at the Giro and lost it in rather spectacular fashion relatively early in his road career, having started out as a mountain biker (and I believe world champ). Menchov was a winner of the white jersey at the Tour while riding for Banesto. Sastre was generally riding in the service of others (Hamilton and Basso) until sharing leadership with the Schlecks. I wouldn't give up on Kreuziger just yet.
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30 Jan 2011 00:33

I put Kreuziger in the same category as Lokvist, Gerdemann, Rogers and Wiggins. They try all year for a GT and get nowhere. Well, Wiggins got 4th one freak year and Rogers was going alright once til he crashed but you get the general idea.
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30 Jan 2011 01:13

bicing wrote:I put Kreuziger in the same category as Lokvist, Gerdemann, Rogers and Wiggins. They try all year for a GT and get nowhere. Well, Wiggins got 4th one freak year and Rogers was going alright once til he crashed but you get the general idea.


Kreuziger has 2 tdf top 10's and came 11 the third time. That was at age 22. To compare his gt ability to that of Rogers or Gerdermann is just silly. And he is significantly younger than any of the guys you mention.
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30 Jan 2011 01:42

I didn't really rate Nibali's chances going into last season and how wrong was I... But I still don't see him as a top5 GC rider, yet.

I've always liked Roman but I can't see him with a huge breakthrough in 2011. The Giro will be too tough, the Tour too competitive (top10 at best). Agreed with Moondance about the Vuelta.

Who will be at the Vuelta?

Menchov?
Sanchez?
Contador?
Evans?
Ricco?
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30 Jan 2011 01:48

bicing wrote:I put Kreuziger in the same category as Lokvist, Gerdemann, Rogers and Wiggins. They try all year for a GT and get nowhere. Well, Wiggins got 4th one freak year and Rogers was going alright once til he crashed but you get the general idea.


This is how Roman Kreuziger works all year for a GT.

2010:
1st, Giro di Sardegna (+stage win)
3rd, Paris-Nice
8th, Volta a Catalunya
16th, Tour de Suisse
9th, Tour de France
27th, Vuelta a España

2009:
9th, Vuelta al País Vasco
1st, Tour de Romandie
3rd, Tour de Suisse
9th, Tour de France

2008:
2nd, Tour de Romandie
10th, Tour de Luxembourg
1st, Tour de Suisse
12th, Tour de France

That's working hard and performing in a range of top events from March to September there.

Wiggins, by contrast, prepared for the 2010 Tour by coming 3rd in the Vuelta a Murcía, and soft-pedalling everything else except the Giro prologue.

Rogers is somewhat better at racing all year round (his preparation for the 2010 Tour involved winning the Ruta del Sol and the Tour of California, 6th at Tirreno-Adriatico and 2nd in the Criterium International) but isn't as much of a GC threat as Kreuziger.

Gerdemann is a bit of a misnomer as a comparison; like Evans Gerdemann has the tendency to get excitable and try and win anywhere he can, which means he doesn't tend to save himself for a GT at all. With Gerdemann however, it's more endearing than with Evans because Gerdemann isn't going to win a GT so you don't mind him expending energy. He had a bad Tour because he got into the infamous L'Aquila break and broke his back trying to defend a top 10 position in the Giro.

Apart from Wiggins I can't really see anybody there who you could really describe as only trying for GTs - and even then that's with Wiggins only having the one year's experience of GT-hunting.
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30 Jan 2011 02:55

Well is kind of weird dont see the dutch team charging and destroying Kreuziger =D

anyway... I like the guys and I really hope that he can learn a lot from Vino... We have seen that He can deliver good results but winning a GT involves a lot of things and Roman still needs to learn a lot and gain more confidence... He is young and have talent and im pretty sure that he can develop much more...

He is targeting Il Giro but I dont see him right know beating Il Cobra Riccó... I dont know if Im being too optimistic but I dont even see Nibali beating Il Cobra in this Giro... but that is another topic =D
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30 Jan 2011 07:17

Ryaguas wrote:I like the guys and I really hope that he can learn a lot from Vino... We have seen that He can deliver good results but winning a GT involves a lot of things and Roman still needs to learn a lot and gain more confidence...


I think Vinos treatment has already started. In team presentation in Monaco, Roman said he wants to win Giro. He never said something like that before. And what's more, 2 months ago Roman said he wants podium at Giro. The shift is obvious, this is Vinos treatment! :))
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30 Jan 2011 08:23

La Pandera wrote:Evan's wore the pink jersey at the Giro and lost it in rather spectacular fashion relatively early in his road career, having started out as a mountain biker (and I believe world champ). Menchov was a winner of the white jersey at the Tour while riding for Banesto. Sastre was generally riding in the service of others (Hamilton and Basso) until sharing leadership with the Schlecks. I wouldn't give up on Kreuziger just yet.


Yeah, like I said, al in their middle 20's, not early 20's. But Kreuziger has barely progressed at all during the last three seasons, his 2008 win in the Tour de Suisse was spectacular, but he has hardly improved at all from then on (if at all). Just compare him to guys like Andy, Gesink and Nibali, he was equal to all them in 2008, but now they are clearly ahead of him. That seems like a more appropriate comparison than Menchov or Evans.

Of course I'm not giving up on Kreuziger, a lot of cycling carreers are weird and unpredictable, but I'm certainly a lot less enthusiastic about his chances as a great GC rider than I was 2 or 3 years ago.
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30 Jan 2011 09:11

I've lost a bit of faith in seeing Kreuziger on a podium at the end of an GT.

Last year at the tour he was very confident and after the first climb he thought he was one of the best... well... That was also the last climb he finished with the best. Now he's allready very confident for the Giro and I don't think he should be. There is no way Kreuziger will contend for the podium with that much climbs in it.
He hasn't improved since 2008 really, but I really hope for him he will though.
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30 Jan 2011 09:27

rmacek wrote:I think Vinos treatment has already started. In team presentation in Monaco, Roman said he wants to win Giro. He never said something like that before. And what's more, 2 months ago Roman said he wants podium at Giro. The shift is obvious, this is Vinos treatment! :))


I like this statement from Kreuziger "I was often told that I wait too much for the others to move in races, and Vino will guide me now on how to attack at the best moment to become an actor in races."
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30 Jan 2011 11:49

Top five at best in whatever Tour he competes in. He is still young and it is still possible for him to improve as others have noted. But to do this he has to be more consistent with his climbing and regain his old time trialling form. The next few years should show whether he will be a Tom Danielson type of rider with loads of promise but not many great results or whether he can start achieving results like Nibali. Too early to write him off. In a few years it could be interesting with Gesink, Nibali, Sicard, Velits showing signs of improvement. Kreuziger could be another one to progress or he could end up being another top quality domestique like Popovych who also showed a lot of early promise.
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30 Jan 2011 14:59

movingtarget wrote:Top five at best in whatever Tour he competes in. He is still young and it is still possible for him to improve as others have noted. But to do this he has to be more consistent with his climbing and regain his old time trialling form. The next few years should show whether he will be a Tom Danielson type of rider with loads of promise but not many great results or whether he can start achieving results like Nibali. Too early to write him off. In a few years it could be interesting with Gesink, Nibali, Sicard, Velits showing signs of improvement. Kreuziger could be another one to progress or he could end up being another top quality domestique like Popovych who also showed a lot of early promise.


how can you compare kreuziger with tom danielson? he has already started achieving results: 2 top ten in tour de france, more than that he has won tour de suisse and tour de romandie, he has been on the podium in paris nice, tds, tour de romandie, san sebastian. he was a factor in 2010 nibali's win in vuelta. he has made interesting actions in amstel a couple of times.
i cannot remember anything similar from tom danielson.

kreuziger has already shown that he has a great potential. then, he has still to show that he has the capacity to do the next step, become one of the best rider of the peloton , able to race to win the tour and hilly classics.
it is not an easy task for roman, but imho he has the mental strength. he is a very serious guy and he likes to train hard.
i think that going away from liquigas was a good move, he will have more freedom. this year giro looks a little too hard for his skills, but for the first time he is the only leader of his team in a gt.
that will help him growing and we will have some answers.
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30 Jan 2011 17:19

theyoungest wrote:He did very average on the steepest MTF of them all. Losing 3 minutes on Zoncolan, that's not top contender stuff. He's alright on the steep climbs, don't get me wrong, but so is Kreuziger. Just not spectacular.


The day before Zoncolan Nibali did a 40kms ITT from the summit of Monte Grappa to the finish to wear Evans and Scarponi while Basso was comfortably behind their wheels to take the bonus for second place in the stage.

Nibali's performance on Zoncolan 2010 is not a comparative indicator of anything.

Regarding Kreuziger, he was by far the best superdomestique in last year Vuelta, but he still needs time to adapt to the team captain role in a GT.
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30 Jan 2011 17:32

icefire wrote:The day before Zoncolan Nibali did a 40kms ITT from the summit of Monte Grappa to the finish to wear Evans and Scarponi while Basso was comfortably behind their wheels to take the bonus for second place in the stage.

Nibali's performance on Zoncolan 2010 is not a comparative indicator of anything.

Regarding Kreuziger, he was by far the best superdomestique in last year Vuelta, but he still needs time to adapt to the team captain role in a GT.

Of which 30 km were pure descending. It must have tired him, but it's not like Evans and Scarponi sat back and relaxed in pursuit. They both finished far ahead of Nibali on Zoncolan.
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30 Jan 2011 17:43

theyoungest wrote:Of which 30 km were pure descending. It must have tired him, but it's not like Evans and Scarponi sat back and relaxed in pursuit. They both finished far ahead of Nibali on Zoncolan.


Let's not forget Nibali had to drag Basso through to Montalcino despite being in the maglia rosa, and that he would probably have gained more time on Evans on the Mortirolo stage if he hadn't had to wait around for Basso to soil himself trying to descend in the rain.

No, Scarponi and Evans didn't exactly kick back and take it easy descending Monte Grappa. But there were at least two of them to share the workload, while Nibali was doing it all on his own. Also, Nibali was a superdomestique. Once he let go of Basso he may have been under orders to run at 90% to have something in reserve in case Basso cracked himself.
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30 Jan 2011 18:18

The Hitch wrote:I was surprised also to see Nibali so much better than Roman. I was convinced Kreuziger was, with the extra year in his favour as well, the better gt bet. ..... Then again, i may have been decieved by the positions at 09 Tour. Nibali was 7th and Roman 9th but Nibali was 7 minutes ahead actually.


Hitch, don´t forget that during 09 TdF Roman had big stomach problems in the second week, riding several days on dry rice or little peace of roll only (first two days not able to keep in his stomach even dry rice, not to mention ability to get some hydration during stage without nausea attack) and with not much sleep (sitting in the bathroom instead). He got back to "normal food" about 1-2 days before Mt Ventoux.
In this point of view, his 9th place (and +7 minutes to Nibali) was a heroic achievment ;)
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30 Jan 2011 20:03

I just hope he gets the breakthrough he deserves
a very talented rider, with a bright future ahead, but I think is time for him to get the victories-otherwise he'll have that question mark on his back haunting him...
Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can?
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30 Jan 2011 20:25

Libertine Seguros wrote:This is how Roman Kreuziger works all year for a GT.

2010:
1st, Giro di Sardegna (+stage win)
3rd, Paris-Nice
8th, Volta a Catalunya
16th, Tour de Suisse
9th, Tour de France
27th, Vuelta a España

2009:
9th, Vuelta al País Vasco
1st, Tour de Romandie
3rd, Tour de Suisse
9th, Tour de France

2008:
2nd, Tour de Romandie
10th, Tour de Luxembourg
1st, Tour de Suisse
12th, Tour de France

That's working hard and performing in a range of top events from March to September there.

Wiggins, by contrast, prepared for the 2010 Tour by coming 3rd in the Vuelta a Murcía, and soft-pedalling everything else except the Giro prologue.

Rogers is somewhat better at racing all year round (his preparation for the 2010 Tour involved winning the Ruta del Sol and the Tour of California, 6th at Tirreno-Adriatico and 2nd in the Criterium International) but isn't as much of a GC threat as Kreuziger.

Gerdemann is a bit of a misnomer as a comparison; like Evans Gerdemann has the tendency to get excitable and try and win anywhere he can, which means he doesn't tend to save himself for a GT at all. With Gerdemann however, it's more endearing than with Evans because Gerdemann isn't going to win a GT so you don't mind him expending energy. He had a bad Tour because he got into the infamous L'Aquila break and broke his back trying to defend a top 10 position in the Giro.

Apart from Wiggins I can't really see anybody there who you could really describe as only trying for GTs - and even then that's with Wiggins only having the one year's experience of GT-hunting.


Sorry I didn't mean to say he only focuses on GTs and doesn't get anywhere, I meant to say his main year goal is a GT and doesn't get anywhere. What I'm trying to say is, Kreuziger's the kind of guy who says in the old CyclingNews interview "yeah my main goal is to be a top contender for x GT" and acts all confident. And of course nothing of the sort happens, and he's not even close. I just thought of another riders who is like this: Leipheimer.

As has been said, Kreuziger is at best a top-5 GT rider. He hasn't lived up to his hype in the last 2 years. He hasn't developed enough.

I also like what he said about learning to attach from Vino though. And I hope I finally get to see, for the first time in my life, Kreuziger attack a race. I mean seriously, he's completely dull excepfor his name. ROMAN KREUZIGER. His name is cool.
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