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Wiggins Discussion thread.

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07 Jun 2014 09:42

William H wrote:Because Wiggins proved himself a superior rider throughout the year, and gained a dominant position in the road.

Any "deal" was extorted by Froome via being a treacherous ******* and is hardly binding


One of the biggest problems for Froome in 2012 is that he was invisible until the Dauphine. I remember in Romandie there were stages when he was coming in with the grupetto. Meanwhile Wiggins had the perfect build up, the route suited him perfectly and there was no Contador on the start line. How could Froome be miffed in the circumstances that he wasn't allowed to compete for the win on the road?

I know there's still debate about how Sky messed up in the 2011 Vuelta but again I think that's with the benefit of hindsight. Froome only made the Vuelta line-up as a late replacement for Lars Peter-Nordhaug. How could anyone have predicted that Froome would maintain his level throughout the entire Vuelta? Again, Wiggins was coming off a pretty good season with a Dauphine win, Paris-Nice podium and also with the 2009 Tour 4th place in the bank.
JRanton
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07 Jun 2014 09:49

JRanton wrote:One of the biggest problems for Froome in 2012 is that he was invisible until the Dauphine. I remember in Romandie there were stages when he was coming in with the grupetto. Meanwhile Wiggins had the perfect build up, the route suited him perfectly and there was no Contador on the start line. How could Froome be miffed in the circumstances that he wasn't allowed to compete for the win on the road?

I know there's still debate about how Sky messed up in the 2011 Vuelta but again I think that's with the benefit of hindsight. Froome only made the Vuelta line-up as a late replacement for Lars Peter-Nordhaug. How could anyone have predicted that Froome would maintain his level throughout the entire Vuelta? Again, Wiggins was coming off a pretty good season with a Dauphine win, Paris-Nice podium and also with the 2009 Tour 3rd place in the bank.


I know you were correct for the time you're talking about, but lets not do Lince any favours...
Waterloo Sunrise
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07 Jun 2014 09:54

It was a tough choice, but after beating Wiggins in the TT and going into the lead of the race they could have shown Froome a bit more faith. Though Sky don't seem to do "flexible" very well - one reason they suck at classics
William H
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07 Jun 2014 10:24

JRanton wrote:One of the biggest problems for Froome in 2012 is that he was invisible until the Dauphine. I remember in Romandie there were stages when he was coming in with the grupetto. Meanwhile Wiggins had the perfect build up, the route suited him perfectly and there was no Contador on the start line. How could Froome be miffed in the circumstances that he wasn't allowed to compete for the win on the road?

I know there's still debate about how Sky messed up in the 2011 Vuelta but again I think that's with the benefit of hindsight. Froome only made the Vuelta line-up as a late replacement for Lars Peter-Nordhaug. How could anyone have predicted that Froome would maintain his level throughout the entire Vuelta? Again, Wiggins was coming off a pretty good season with a Dauphine win, Paris-Nice podium and also with the 2009 Tour 4th place in the bank.


Froome was invisible in 2011 and was better than Wiggins post collarbone break in the Vuelta.
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07 Jun 2014 11:40

roundabout wrote:Froome was invisible in 2011 and was better than Wiggins post collarbone break in the Vuelta.


And what did he do before the Dauphine in 2012 to assure Sky that his Vuelta performance wasn't a one-off? At the same time Wiggins had obviously improved on his 2011 'numbers'.
JRanton
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07 Jun 2014 11:47

William H wrote:It was a tough choice, but after beating Wiggins in the TT and going into the lead of the race they could have shown Froome a bit more faith.Though Sky don't seem to do "flexible" very well - one reason they suck at classics


But prior to that Vuelta he'd done precisely nothing to justify that faith. We're talking about perhaps the most outrageous break-out performance in the modern era of cycling (Wiggins 2009 runs it close). Two weeks before the race he was finishing in the bus in Poland, then only got a late call up to the Vuelta after an illness to Lars Peter Nordhaug (this was before Nordhaug had his own break-out in 2012) and was on the verge of being let go by Sky. Think about that for a second.
JRanton
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07 Jun 2014 11:55

JRanton
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07 Jun 2014 12:00

That's what you get for making the leadership decision that far before the actual big event.

Or for failing to communicate to Froome that because he is less popular than Wiggins, his actual July form doesn't matter and Wiggins will be the first in line to get all the extra fame.

The real question is did Sky screw over Froome on stage 1 or was it just an unfortunate set of events and they did their best to help him in the circumstances.
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07 Jun 2014 12:11

roundabout wrote:That's what you get for making the leadership decision that far before the actual big event.

Or for failing to communicate to Froome that because he is less popular than Wiggins, his actual July form doesn't matter and Wiggins will be the first in line to get all the extra fame.

The real question is did Sky screw over Froome on stage 1 or was it just an unfortunate set of events and they did their best to help him in the circumstances.


Porte and Knees both waited for him after the puncture.
JRanton
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07 Jun 2014 12:26

JRanton wrote:But prior to that Vuelta he'd done precisely nothing to justify that faith. We're talking about perhaps the most outrageous break-out performance in the modern era of cycling (Wiggins 2009 runs it close). Two weeks before the race he was finishing in the bus in Poland, then only got a late call up to the Vuelta after an illness to Lars Peter Nordhaug (this was before Nordhaug had his own break-out in 2012) and was on the verge of being let go by Sky. Think about that for a second.


Thanks for the reminder, it's amazing how quickly we forget things, even the most amazing ones ;-)
webvan
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07 Jun 2014 12:47

JRanton wrote:Porte and Knees both waited for him after the puncture.


Although I think he only credits Richie in his book, and claims Richie noticed the problem himself rather than any team effort on his behalf. I haven't read it myself (and probably won't) but I have seen this quoted.
[Quote=Originally Tweeted by]

Michael Hutchinson ‏@Doctor_Hutch 10 Mar

Team Sky. A gang of time triallists taking over the world.[/Quote]
Wiggo Warrior
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07 Jun 2014 13:05

JRanton wrote:I mean, just look at it! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIRIAinJo0E

Who were those commentators. Brilliant.
User avatar wirral
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07 Jun 2014 13:06

JRanton wrote:What choice did Sky have though? He had a contract for 2014 so they had to honour it. I read some talk that they tried to 'politely' usher him out of the door at the end of last year but no other team would have matched his 2014 salary.


my original post was trunkated for some reason,The full post was coming at it from both sides
Why would sky want to keep wiggins on a fat contract surely not just for the ToC?
Similarly why would Wiggins stay if he wants to ride TdF and knows he's playing second fiddle to Froome?

My guess is that Wiggins was told he would be going to the Tour if he was in form and Sky Management have done a u-turn at the behest of Froome and so brailsford and his team carry the can for this debacle by not being explicit from the word go.
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07 Jun 2014 13:20

I think everyone is being a bit hard on Dave "Knight of the Realm" Brailsford here.

He had to string Wiggo along about the possibility of going to the Tour because

A) Froome had a back problem.

B) Porte was suffering from some infection leading to a huge loss of form.

C) Cycling is a sport where leaders and favourites can crash out and be out for months.

D) Maybe most importantly, Wiggo has a contract for 2014 and if Dave had told him, "No Tour for you this year," he would have sulked all the way from Jan to Oct and produced no results whatsoever.

The bottom line is that Dave played his hand as well as he could and Wiggo just got played.
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07 Jun 2014 13:38

If Sir Brad ends up with Rainbow Bands in the ITT
all will be forgotten, and everyone will be happy.
We should ride our bikes at least 20 kilometres every day,
unless we are too busy...then we should ride at least forty.
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07 Jun 2014 14:33

Dave made the right decision. Whatever he decided it would have bad consequences. Sadly enough for us he took the right one :(
thehog wrote:JV if you truly wish to save cycling.

Do something.

You know it's not real.

Your Garmin guys are getting killed.
User avatar Miburo
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07 Jun 2014 15:15

JRanton wrote:One of the biggest problems for Froome in 2012 is that he was invisible until the Dauphine. I remember in Romandie there were stages when he was coming in with the grupetto. Meanwhile Wiggins had the perfect build up, the route suited him perfectly and there was no Contador on the start line. How could Froome be miffed in the circumstances that he wasn't allowed to compete for the win on the road?

I know there's still debate about how Sky messed up in the 2011 Vuelta but again I think that's with the benefit of hindsight. Froome only made the Vuelta line-up as a late replacement for Lars Peter-Nordhaug. How could anyone have predicted that Froome would maintain his level throughout the entire Vuelta? Again, Wiggins was coming off a pretty good season with a Dauphine win, Paris-Nice podium and also with the 2009 Tour 4th place in the bank.

Agreed.

Froome did great in the Vuelta 2011 but doing good in one GT doesn't mean too much in the long run. He definitely looked like he had potential and upside, but so has Rolland, Pinot, Moreno and a bunch of others and they haven't won any TdF's.

I think Wiggins should be on this year's TdF team for many reasons, with one of them being that he really isn't a threat to Froome. Froome is even enough with him on the TT's and he's probably the best climber in the world right now.
rzombie1988
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07 Jun 2014 15:19

I think it comes down to trust. Froome doesn't trust Wiggins.
User avatar Poursuivant
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07 Jun 2014 16:53

Poursuivant wrote:I think it comes down to trust. Froome doesn't trust Wiggins.


All the more reason Brailsfraud should have them both on the team - entertainment for the masses watching Dawg & Wiggo knifing each other....:D
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07 Jun 2014 17:13

William H wrote:Because Wiggins proved himself a superior rider throughout the year, and gained a dominant position in the road.

Any "deal" was extorted by Froome via being a treacherous ******* and is hardly binding


You had better tell DB and tell him to replace Froome with Wiggins. I'm sure success is then guaranteed and Wiggins will claim another TDF. :p
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