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Race Design Thread

A place to discuss all things related to current professional road races. Here, you can also touch on the latest news relating to professional road racing. A doping discussion free forum.

06 Oct 2011 23:39

How long is Porlock Hill, and how far is it from the finish? Looks about 20km out?
User avatar Libertine Seguros
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06 Oct 2011 23:48

Around about 4kms long. Trouble is it brings you up onto the top of the moor and as ToB stages always finish in towns it cant be used as finishing climb. Lynmouth Hill is a similar steepness but only half as long but that would be right at the finish.

When the ToB went to Porlock a few years ago they completely missed out Porlock Hill and took them up the toll road next to it which is twice as long but only half as steep.
User avatar Richeypen
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07 Oct 2011 01:15

Here is a fantasy Tour de France I made almost two years ago..

luckyboy wrote:Image[SIZE="1"]
Click for larger image


STAGE 1 - Roubaix - Lille TTT 30.4 km

STAGE 2 - Lille - St. Quentin 169 km

STAGE 3 - Fourmies - Carignan 177 km

STAGE 4 - Carignan - Verdun 209 km

Rest Day

STAGE 5 - Gap - Pelvo d'Elva 156 km
Colle Dell'Agnello > Pelvo d'Elva

STAGE 6 - Cuneo - St Étienne de Tineé 183 km
Colle Fauniera > Colle della Maddalena > Cime de la Bonette

STAGE 7 - Guillestre - Alpe d'Huez 213 km
Col de l'Izoard > Col du Telegraphe > Alpe d'Huez

STAGE 7 ALTERNATE - Bourg d'Osains - Granon 203 km
Alpe d'Huez (Bourg d'Osains) > Col de Sarenne > Col du Lautaret (Le Clapier) > Chemin de Champcella > Col de l'Izoard (Cervieres) > Col du Granon (Saint Chaffrey)

STAGE 8 - Orelle - Joux Plane 232 km
Col de la Croix de Fer/Glandon > Col des Aravis > Col de la Colombiere > Col de Joux Plane

STAGE 9 - Lyon - Ambert 178 km

STAGE 10- Issoire - Tulle 199 km

STAGE 11- Tulle - Limoges 169 km

STAGE 12- Aixe-Sur-Vienne - Thiviers TT 50.7 km

STAGE 13- Perigueux - Tonneins 193 km

STAGE 14- Agen - Pau 184 km

Rest Day

STAGE 15- Larrau - Hautacam 151 km
Col de Labays > Hautacam

STAGE 16- Bedous - Aubisque 63 km
Col de l'Aubisque

STAGE 17- Luz-Saint-Saveur - Tourmalet TT 18.2 km
Col du Tourmalet

STAGE 18- Montanuy - Tourmalet 177 km
Col du Portillon > Col de Peyresourde > Col de Peyrefite/d'Azet > Col de l'Aspin
> Col du Tourmalet

STAGE 19- Rouze - Saint Beat 190 km
Port de Pailheres > Col d'Agnes > Col de la Core > Col du Portet d'Aspet > Col de Mente

Rest Day

STAGE 20- Saint-Brieuc - Laval 203 km

STAGE 21- Le Mans - Chartres 191 km

STAGE 22- Epone - Paris Champs TT 42.6 km

3378.9 km

Stage 5
Colle Dell'Agnello (Guillestre) 42km @ 4.1% 9003ft
Pelvo d'Elva 15.5km @ 8.2% 7358ft

Stage 6
Colle Fauniera (Pradleves) 22.4km @ 7.5% 8236ft
Colle della Maddalena (Argentera)
Cime de la Bonette (Jausiers) 24km @ 6.6% 9190ft

Stage 7
Col de l'Izoard (Guillestre) 15.9km @ 6.9% 7744ft
Col du Télégraphe (S-M-de-Mau) 11.8km @ 7.3% 5136ft
Alpe d'Huez (Bour d'Osains) 13.2km @ 8.1% 5953ft

Stage 7 Alternate
Alpe d'Huez (Bourg d'Osains) 13.2km @ 8.1% 5953ft
Col de Sarenne 1.7km @ 5.1% 6230ft
Col du Lautaret (Le Clapier) 34km @ 3.8% 6752ft
Chemin de Champcella 6.3km @ 9.3% 6466ft
Col de l'Izoard (Cervieres) 20km @ 5.8% 7744ft
Col du Granon (Saint Chaffrey) 11.5km @ 9.2% 7917ft

Stage 8
Col de la Croix de Fer 30km @ 5.1% 6783ft
Col du Glandon (Croix de Fer) 2.9km
Col de la Colombiere (Grand B) 11.7km @ 5.9% 5290ft
Col du Joux Plane (Samoens) 11.6km @ 8.5% 5546ft

Stage 15
Col de Labays (West) 23km @ 4.3% 4431ft
Hautacam 17.3km @ 6.8% 5362ft

Stage 16
Col de l'Aubisque 16.6km @ 7.2% 5605ft

Stage 17
Col du Tourmalet 19km @ 7.4% 6937ft

Stage 18
Puerto de la Bonaigua (South) 20.9km @ 5.4% 7086ft
Col du Portillon (Spanish side) 8.6km @ 6.8% 3634ft
Col de Peyresourde (Bagneres) 15.27km @ 6.1% 5146ft
Col de Peyrefite/d'Azet (Genos) 7.47km @ 8.3% 5182ft
Col de l'Aspin (Arreau) 12km @ 6.5% 4883ft
Col du Tourmalet (S-M de Camp) 17.2km @ 7.4% 6937ft

Stage 19
Port de Pailheres (Mijanes) 10.6km @ 8.2% 6565ft
Col d'Agnes (East side) 10.2 @ 8.1% 5149ft
Col de la Core (Seix) 13.8km @ 6.4% 4575ft
Col du Portet d'Aspet (Audress) 18.1km @ 3.1% 3506ft
Col de Mente (Le Couret) 10.9km @ 6.6% 4424ft[/SIZE]

:p


Also there was a stage 8 replacement from Grenoble to Mont du Chat, taking in the Col de Porte, Col de Cucheron, Col du Granier, Col de l'Epine and Mont du Chat.

PROFILES OF THE MOUNTAIN STAGES

Image

Image
inthedrops.net

blackcat wrote:you must respect the Cobra, a man who can give himself his own nickname. he trancends hubris.
User avatar luckyboy
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07 Oct 2011 01:31

Fantasy Tour of Poland opening stage.

Prologue Warsaw -Warsaw.

5km on 1 of Europes best cycling superhighways.

http://photo.bikestats.eu/zdjecie,154198,wal-miedzeszynski.html
(picture) from winter btw.

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/14878076.jpg

The stones and relatively narrow road make it slightly more difficult.

But the real appeal of this is that every time i go back i can measure my time against the pros :p

Parisians cant pretend to sprint through the Platz de Concorde down the CHamps Elysee. Madrillenos would find it difficult to sprint round Cibeles. Milan natives sure as hell cant do the Milano itt.

But now, finaly, cyclists of all ages will be able to compare themselves to the pros, on the route of a major stage race.
The Hitch: Winner 2013 Vuelta cq game. Winner, Velorooms prediction game 2012, 2013. 2nd all time cq rankings.
The Father of Clean Cycling, Christophe Bassons wrote:When I look at cycling today, I get the impression that history is repeating itself: riders who are supposed to be rouleurs are climbing passes at the front of the race, and those who are supposed to be climbers are riding time trials at more than 50 kilometres per hour.

The story is beginning again, just as it did 14 years ago


journalist with integrity.
User avatar The Hitch
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Location: London.

07 Oct 2011 01:37

Fantasy Tour of Poland opening stage.

Prologue Warsaw -Warsaw.

5km on 1 of Europes best cycling superhighways.

Image

(picture is from the winter, its hot in the summer)

The stones and relatively narrow road make it slightly more difficult.

But the real appeal of this is that every time i go back i can measure my time against the pros :p

Parisians cant pretend to sprint through the Platz de Concorde down the CHamps Elysee. Madrillenos would find it difficult to sprint round Cibeles. Milan natives sure as hell cant do the Milano itt.

But now, finaly, cyclists of all ages will be able to compare themselves to the pros, on the route of a major stage race.
The Hitch: Winner 2013 Vuelta cq game. Winner, Velorooms prediction game 2012, 2013. 2nd all time cq rankings.
The Father of Clean Cycling, Christophe Bassons wrote:When I look at cycling today, I get the impression that history is repeating itself: riders who are supposed to be rouleurs are climbing passes at the front of the race, and those who are supposed to be climbers are riding time trials at more than 50 kilometres per hour.

The story is beginning again, just as it did 14 years ago


journalist with integrity.
User avatar The Hitch
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Posts: 26,976
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Location: London.

07 Oct 2011 01:50

The Hitch wrote:Fantasy Tour of Poland opening stage.

Prologue Warsaw -Warsaw.

5km on 1 of Europes best cycling superhighways.

http://photo.bikestats.eu/zdjecie,154198,wal-miedzeszynski.html
(picture) from winter btw.

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/14878076.jpg

The stones and relatively narrow road make it slightly more difficult.

But the real appeal of this is that every time i go back i can measure my time against the pros :p

Parisians cant pretend to sprint through the Platz de Concorde down the CHamps Elysee. Madrillenos would find it difficult to sprint round Cibeles. Milan natives sure as hell cant do the Milano itt.

But now, finaly, cyclists of all ages will be able to compare themselves to the pros, on the route of a major stage race.

Somebody should show those pics to Boris(mayor of London) as too what a cycling "superhighway" really looks like.
User avatar User Guide
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07 Oct 2011 02:07

User Guide wrote:Somebody should show those pics to Boris(mayor of London) as too what a cycling "superhighway" really looks like.


Dont know if you can tell from the pictures but the bike highway is elevated about 10m above the car highway and a good 15-20 vertical meteres to its side. So its impossible for you to crash into cars, and its impossible for the white van driver to crash into you, even if he wants to.

When they announced the "superhighways" for London, this was the kind of thing i had hoped for:cool:
The Hitch: Winner 2013 Vuelta cq game. Winner, Velorooms prediction game 2012, 2013. 2nd all time cq rankings.
The Father of Clean Cycling, Christophe Bassons wrote:When I look at cycling today, I get the impression that history is repeating itself: riders who are supposed to be rouleurs are climbing passes at the front of the race, and those who are supposed to be climbers are riding time trials at more than 50 kilometres per hour.

The story is beginning again, just as it did 14 years ago


journalist with integrity.
User avatar The Hitch
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Joined: 14 Jun 2010 10:58
Location: London.

07 Oct 2011 06:59

The Hitch wrote:Dont know if you can tell from the pictures but the bike highway is elevated about 10m above the car highway and a good 15-20 vertical meteres to its side. So its impossible for you to crash into cars, and its impossible for the white van driver to crash into you, even if he wants to.

When they announced the "superhighways" for London, this was the kind of thing i had hoped for:cool:



Very nice, but it's got EU Regional Development Fund written all over it. Won't be seeing anything like that for a long, long time...:(
User avatar cycladianpirate
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07 Oct 2011 12:22

OK, I'm not sure how to do the fancy profiles or maps, or embed pictures (if anyone can advise I'll try and edit), but I saw something saying GB might bid for the World Championships the other day, and it got me thinking about a fantasy world champs course in my hometown Bristol.

I reckon you could start next to the harbourside on Anchor Road, go up St Michael's Hill - which is about a kilometer that must be around 10% average gradient, with (considerably) steeper sections, through Clifton and across the Suspension bridge, then loop around the top of Ashton Court park (This is all fairly flat ) before the descent round the South of the Park (which is probably about three/four kilometers at an average of about -8% and not particularly technical).

Then back up Rownham Hill to the bridge - there's a link to a Strava profile below which says its 9% average with 16-17% section. Once you cross back into Bristol proper, turn left and descend down onto the Portway, which takes you underneath the Suspension bridge and back onto Anchor Road for the start finish - I reckon it's about 20 kilometers a lap, so eight laps, 16 kilometers of proper climbing, about 25 kilometers of fast descending, and the rest flat, all with a beautiful/historic back drop.

There might be a problem with using the bridge in two directions (and more to the point the approach roads, as the bridge itself is naturally split into two carriageways) especially if the field splits, but assuming you could overcome that I reckon it would be fantastic - no idea who would win either!

Some context:

Here's a map I made http://friendfit.com/routeview.php?rtnum=75596&from=fitblog

A photo of St Michaels Hill http://www.yourlocalweb.co.uk/images/pictures/16/38/st-michaels-hospital-161360.jpg)

A profile of the second climb http://www.strava.com/segments/rownham-hill-short-bristol-670831

Some images of the Suspension Bridge: http://www.google.co.uk/search?tbm=isch&hl=en&source=hp&biw=1280&bih=933&q=clifton+suspension+bridge&gbv=2&oq=clifton+sup&aq=0sS&aqi=g-sS1g-S4&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=1634l2774l0l4191l11l8l0l0l0l0l162l969l2.6l8l0
RownhamHill
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07 Oct 2011 14:00

you could do a proper hard classic style stage of ToB in the Surrey Hills - except I dont think the roads are wide enough for support traffic or a big bunch - not that there would be a bunch for long

something like this, but a bit longer http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/Tour-of-the-Surrey-Hills a start in London would give good marketing promo stuff and take the distance up to 150-160km

thats the old route its 115km now, last climb goes up to 21% and the route takes elite and cat 1 riders 4.15 in good weather

you can see the profile by clicking Show
Winterfold
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07 Oct 2011 14:56

The area around Lillehammer has some good climbs. Would want to see something like this in next years tour of Norway.

http://tracks4bikers.com/tracks/show/70424

Or a one day race with start and Finish in Lillehammer adding Torpavegen to that route before those climbs
Bubban
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07 Oct 2011 14:58

Nice thread. If i find the time I'll post my 3 weeks Tour of Germany:D
User avatar Bavarianrider
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07 Oct 2011 15:28

Bavarianrider wrote:Nice thread. If i find the time I'll post my 3 weeks Tour of Germany:D


A prologue followed by 20 ITTs of 50km length each?
King Of The Wolds
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07 Oct 2011 15:32

King Of The Wolds wrote:A prologue followed by 20 ITTs of 50km length each?


that would be epic :p :D
Testing the bounds of reality.
User avatar Zam_Olyas
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07 Oct 2011 15:49

Good thread, I'd have a 1 day classic on the Isle Of Wight, semi off road for WT points - kind of like Strade Bianchi but with smaller hills and crosswinds.

If no World Tour status then its a Saudia Arabia or (insert cash rich despotic regime administered country here) 7 day borefest for points and cash for the UCI.. As long as I get compensated.

;)
User avatar sublimit
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07 Oct 2011 16:22

sublimit wrote:Good thread, I'd have a 1 day classic on the Isle Of Wight, semi off road for WT points - kind of like Stade Bianchi but with smaller hills and crosswinds.

If no World Tour status then its a Saudia Arabia or (insert cash rich despotic regime administered country here) 7 day borefest for points and cash for the UCI.. As long as I get compensated.

;)

Its funny because its true
User avatar User Guide
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07 Oct 2011 16:48

One day mountain classic that finish in Monte Crostis{ovaro - ravascletto} will be great.
Testing the bounds of reality.
User avatar Zam_Olyas
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07 Oct 2011 16:59

I eagerly await the Amgen Tour of Romania presented by Jens Attacks where every team has to have a minimum of 3 failed dope tests between them and every stage is an mtf.
The Hitch: Winner 2013 Vuelta cq game. Winner, Velorooms prediction game 2012, 2013. 2nd all time cq rankings.
The Father of Clean Cycling, Christophe Bassons wrote:When I look at cycling today, I get the impression that history is repeating itself: riders who are supposed to be rouleurs are climbing passes at the front of the race, and those who are supposed to be climbers are riding time trials at more than 50 kilometres per hour.

The story is beginning again, just as it did 14 years ago


journalist with integrity.
User avatar The Hitch
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Location: London.

07 Oct 2011 17:02

The Hitch wrote:I eagerly await the Amgen Tour of Romania presented by Jens Attacks where every team has to have a minimum of 3 failed dope tests between them and every stage is an mtf.


A race between Hamilton and Lance Armstrong?
Ryo Hazuki wrote:horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato


The Hitch wrote:Goss will woop boonens candy a[color="Black"]ss[/color] in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
User avatar El Pistolero
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07 Oct 2011 17:09

The Hitch wrote:I eagerly await the Amgen Tour of Romania presented by Jens Attacks where every team has to have a minimum of 3 failed dope tests between them and every stage is an mtf.


this made me laugh out loud. Well done, hitchens. :D
Testing the bounds of reality.
User avatar Zam_Olyas
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