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Race Design Thread

A place to discuss all things related to current professional road races. Here, you can also touch on the latest news relating to professional road racing. A doping discussion free forum.

Re: Race Design Thread

07 Jul 2015 09:11

god damnit I don't know if I have the time for this. I am on holidays in the next two weeks so it would be difficult to design a giro
User avatar Gigs_98
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07 Jul 2015 09:24

Starting date is negotiable :p If also other participants want more time, I may extend the deadline. Let's see first of all how many people are interested
A race that doesn't give an attacker the chance to finish it off alone is not a race anymore.


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User avatar Eshnar
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Re: Race Design Thread

07 Jul 2015 09:39

Tour de France stage 17: Bonneville - Verbier (152 km)
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Image

The first mountain stage of the alps and the last really hard mtf of the tour. After the start in Bonneville the first few kilometers are flat. However as soon as the first climb, the Cote de Chatillon, starts the stage gets really difficult. The second climb is the Col des Gets. This climb isn't used that often in the tour because there are two parallel passes, the col de ramaz and the col de joux plane. The reason why I used the climb in my route is because I don't want too many hard climbs before the finish, because in this stage the attention should lay on the last two ascents. After the descent there is an intermediate sprint in Saint Jean d'Aulpe. Shortly after this sprint the Col d Cobier, a steep 2nd category climb, starts. After the descent there is a pretty long false flat section which leads to the Pas de Morgins, which is located on the border to Switzerland. This pass is very difficult from the east side but pretty short and flat from the western french side, so its only 3rd category. The by far longest flat section of the stage follows, which gets finished with the second intermediate sprint in Martigny. From there on the stage gets really difficult again. The Col des Planches is the most difficult climb of the stage and IMO one of the most underused climbs of the alps.
Image

Especially because the tour de suisse and the tour de romandie are in this area very often, its surprising that this climb has only been used once, in the queen stage of the 2014 tour de romandie (as far as I know it was only used once. Anyway its the only stage I found with this climb). After a difficult descent and a little, uncategorized bump the climb to verbier starts. In the last few years this climb became one of the most famous mtf´s of Switzerland, because it was used in the tour de suisse several times and also in the Tour de France 2009, when Alberto Contador won there, and made himself the leader of the Astana team, after he was only number two behind armstrong before. The climb isn't a monster and the time gaps here wouldn't be huge, but thats no problem. This is the last serious mtf of my tour so if someone really needs to get time, he has to attack there anyways. Moreover, stage 18 will be extremely hard, so I think that a too hard mtf would cost the riders so much energy that the action on the next stage could be killed.

Verbier:
Image Image

climbs:
Cote de Chatillon (3rd cat.)
Col des Gets (2nd cat.)
Col du Cobier (2nd cat.)
Pas de Morgins (3rd cat.)
Col des Planches (1st cat.)
Verbier (1st cat.)
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Re: Race Design Thread

07 Jul 2015 11:19

Tour de France stage 18: Martigny - Bourg Saint Maurice (209 km)
Image
Image

The second Alps stage and this time a real monster. The stage starts in Martigny, which means we are still in Switzerland. However almost directly after the start the route heads westwards, which means the riders have to ride in the direction of the french border. The first climb on this way is the Col de la Forclaz, a very steep HC climb, which was used in last years criterium du dauphine, on the penultimate race day. After a short descent the pass Col des Montets starts, which leads the riders to france. The next 40 k´s will be mostly downhill with an intermediate sprint in Chamonix and a little 4th category climb up to Vaudagne as only highlights. After the end of the descent the longest flat section of the day starts. However this flat section gets interrupted by 4 famous alps passes which follow directly after each other:
Image Image
Image Image

I don't make a secret out of it, I love this Colombière-Aravis-Saisies-Roselend combination (normally I would even put the Col du Romme in front of the Colombière but I think the stage is hard enough :D ). The first climb is the Col de la Colombière. This pass was used many times in the tour, although the last time it was used lays back in 2010. I find it kind of funny that the ASO always rated this climb as a 1st category climb, because I really don't see any reason why it shouldn't be HC. Whatever, after the descent the riders pass Le Grand Bornand, where an intermediate sprint is located. The Col des Aravis is the next climb and by far the easiest one of these 4, which is the reason why its the only 2nd category climb of this day. Next up is the Col des Saisies. Although the south side is harder than the north side, which I use in this stage, this pass should still be a real challenge. If this stage would be raced very hard this is even the climb where the first gc contenders could fade, and if someone really has absolutely nothing to lose he might already attack here. The last climb of the day is the Cormet de Roselend. It is the longest climb of the day, but because of some flat sections and the fact that steep ramps over 10% are completely missing its only 1st category. Nevertheless, the combination of the Saisies and the Roselend should be hard enough to cause some serious time gaps. Moreover the next stage is pretty flat so the riders really can go all out, and some would even have to because after this stage there is only one more chance to create time gaps.

Bourg Saint Maurice:
Image

climbs:
Col de la Forclaz (HC)
Col des Montets (3rd cat.)
Vaudagne (4th cat.)
Col de la Colombière (HC)
Col des Aravis (2nd cat.)
Col des Saisies (1st cat.)
Cormet de Roselend (1st cat.)

Edit:
I just noticed that the profiles are probably too small so I put links to the profiles in here.
User avatar Gigs_98
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Re:

07 Jul 2015 12:36

Eshnar wrote:The time has come for my race design challenge, people!

Were the results from the Criterium International challenge ever published?
Burkni
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Re: Re:

07 Jul 2015 12:46

Burkni wrote:
Eshnar wrote:The time has come for my race design challenge, people!

Were the results from the Criterium International challenge ever published?

actually I don't know. You should ask the organizer
A race that doesn't give an attacker the chance to finish it off alone is not a race anymore.


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WARNING: Location says Germany, but I'm Italian...
User avatar Eshnar
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Re: Race Design Thread

07 Jul 2015 13:21

How much time do we have before the jury gets announced. Maybe I will apply to become part of it, but firstly I want to do a little bit of brain storming to find some good ideas for the race, to do a route myself. Only if I don't have good ideas I would apply for the jury
User avatar Gigs_98
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Re: Race Design Thread

07 Jul 2015 13:23

Gigs_98 wrote:How much time do we have before the jury gets announced. Maybe I will apply to become part of it, but firstly I want to do a little bit of brain storming to find some good ideas for the race, to do a route myself. Only if I don't have good ideas I would apply for the jury

There is no deadline for the jury. Ofc it will be announced before the showcase starts.
A race that doesn't give an attacker the chance to finish it off alone is not a race anymore.


Bronze Medal at the Great Grand Tour Game 2012

WARNING: Location says Germany, but I'm Italian...
User avatar Eshnar
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Re: Race Design Thread

07 Jul 2015 19:41

Tour de France stage 18: Bourg Saint Maurice - Saint Jean de Maurienne (179 km)
Image
Image

One would say this stage is a little bit lame, but I have to strongly disagree. This stage is extremely lame... :o
Well the truth is that I firstly planned to make another mountain stage to Saint Jean de Maurienne which went over the madeleine and the croix de fer, but shortly before I started to post this race I decided to cancel that stage because 4 mountain stages in a row are just too much. However I already designed the rest of the race and I also already had the profiles so I couldn't make everything new and had to make a short transitional stage from Bourg Saint Maurice to Saint Jean de Maurienne. Then I had the idea to make a round course (is that the right word for a lap based stage? I have no idea) with Lacets de Montvernier. I know many people don't like the hype around this climb but the setting and the profile are still very interesting and good, so I decided to make the course you can now see.
There isn't so much more to say about this stage. There is one more categorized climb up to Montnion, which is only 4th category, and there are two intermediate sprints in Albertville and in Saint Jean de Maurienne. Its hard to predict who would win this stage. Its the penultimate chance for sprinters but Lacets de Montvernier is probably too hard for some pure sprinters and the race would be extremely hard to control because attacks on the climbs would be guaranteed. Moreover its always hard for some sprinters when they already have two hard stages in their legs. So maybe its more likely that this stage would go to the break.

Lacets de Montvernier:
Image Image

Saint Jean de Maurienne:
Image

climbs:
Montnion (4th cat.)
Lacets de Montvernier (3rd cat.) x4
User avatar Gigs_98
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Re:

07 Jul 2015 19:45

Eshnar wrote:The time has come for my race design challenge, people!

The idea is fairly simple. As you surely know, the 2017 Giro will be in fact the 100th edition. As such, everyone expects a route which has to be "meaningful" for the history and tradition of the Giro and/or Italy itself.

You'll have to design your own 100th Giro.

The rules are the following:
- Start and finish must be placed in Italy
- Can't have more than 2 stages abroad
- All the stupid UCI constraints are in effect. I want a believable route. If you need, you can ask the jury for an exception.
- Transfers of more than 75 kms can be made only during rest days

In Italy!!! You are an evil so-and-so. Giving us a whole Tour to think up ideas for a GIRO. You of all people should know how almost limitless the possibilities are!!!

(PS I saw this on my lunchbreak at work and spend a large part of the afternoon daydreaming a route as a result... and I still haven't finished posting my last Giro... and there's still my post-Giro project to post...)
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07 Jul 2015 20:00

It would be my third Giro, so maybe I'll apply to become part of the jury.
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Re: Race Design Thread

07 Jul 2015 20:14

I usually don't have time to post on workdays, so i'm out. Nice idea, though.
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Re: Race Design Thread

08 Jul 2015 06:28

fauniera wrote:I usually don't have time to post on workdays, so i'm out. Nice idea, though.

That's actually a problem :( Do you really have no time (not even in the evening/night)? In the end everybody would have a 24h window to post the stage.
How about we just modify the format? We could post three stages at a time, twice a week. This way the total duration of the game would be pretty much the same, but you would need to log in only twice a week.
A race that doesn't give an attacker the chance to finish it off alone is not a race anymore.


Bronze Medal at the Great Grand Tour Game 2012

WARNING: Location says Germany, but I'm Italian...
User avatar Eshnar
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Re:

08 Jul 2015 06:29

Mayomaniac wrote:It would be my third Giro, so maybe I'll apply to become part of the jury.

Application duly noted ;)
I'll let you know. In the meantime, remember that as long as I don't announce the jury you can always change your mind and be a player :p Three Giro aren't nothing. I made at least 6 in this thread.
A race that doesn't give an attacker the chance to finish it off alone is not a race anymore.


Bronze Medal at the Great Grand Tour Game 2012

WARNING: Location says Germany, but I'm Italian...
User avatar Eshnar
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08 Jul 2015 06:43

Saw it yesterday. Forgot to post. I think i'll finish the remapping of the Tour of Britain, however pospone that till after the Giro is completed. Spent most of the evening yesterday, thinking of ideas.
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Tour of California 11

08 Jul 2015 14:08

Tour of California stage 11: Ione - Greeley Hill; 202 km

Image

Image

After a long time trial there is no respite in California. This is one of the most potentially interesting (for fans) and most dangerous (for the overall GC contenders) stages in the tour. With no less than nine categorised ascents and many uncategorised ones, this is bound to break up the peloton.

The stage starts in Ione, where the ITT took place the previous day. The first categorised hill comes after we drop down to Molekumne River and is on a very nice new tarmac. That is soon to be changed though as the first unpaved section begins at 39th km and lasts for 8 km. There are three hills during this section and especially the first one averaging 12.5% over 1.3 km is a killer. The road here is quite narrow as well so there is little hope the bunch will stay together even though it is early on. Moreover it remains narrow even after it becomes paved again.

20 km of easier terrain follow before another gravel section, this time 9 km long. This one seems a bit softer with bigger pebbles so might be an important point of the stage. If that was not enough, most of it is uphill, climbing the Mineral Peak. For the next ascent, the road becomes paved again, but it's still quite rough in places. It is also another steep climb, 2.3 km long with 10.5% average. Rolling terrain follows, gradually descending towards New Melones Lake, where the first category 1 climb begins.

It is a two-stepped ascent of Telegraph Hill follewed by a long descent down towards Deer Creek with the Don Pedro Reservoir. We cross it by the Wards Ferry Bridge. The climb to Tip Top Peak that follows is another longer one, but may be also dangerous because of the narrow road, although the bunch could be fairly depleted at this point already. The crest comes at 33 km to go and then we head towards Priest and down the very high quality road of New Priest Grade. Riders can also check out the Old Priest Grade on the other side of the valley which they will go up next. It won't be a nice look for many though, because Old Priest Grade is a nasty ascent.

It is 3 km long and fairly consistent. However, consistenly excruciatingly steep. the average of almost 14% speaks by itself. At the top near Priest station we will see the riders spread everywhere even though it comes 20 km before the finish line. And it is up and down all the way to the finish. There is one more categorised climb to negotiate, the Greeley Hill, which is quite hard on its own. From the top of that one it is only 2 kilometers slightly downhill to go.
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08 Jul 2015 14:44

Great stuff Togo, again.
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Tour of California 12

08 Jul 2015 16:24

Cheers BigMac, that stage is my favourite from the race I think.

Tour of California stage 12: Turlock - Yosemite Valley; 185 km

Image

Image

Twelth stage offers possibility for the GC guys to be a little bit less nervous as this should go to a break or a reduced bunch sprint. The whole stage is on very good roads so that shouldn't be a problem either.

Route follows mostly east direction. At km 110 we enter the Yosemite National Park and after a gradual climb from El Portal to the upper Yosemite Valley there are 40 flat kilometers remaining. There riders will do 2.5 loops around the Yosemite Village surrounded by breathtaking scenery. Indeed that was the main reason of putting this stage instead of some monotonous pancake flat stage, to have beautiful pictures. Hopefully, the weather will play its part.

Yosemite Valley:
Image
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Re: Race Design Thread

08 Jul 2015 18:08

Stage 11 is awesome, Togo. So much better than the real ToC. Excellent race so far.
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Re: Race Design Thread

08 Jul 2015 18:18

Eshnar wrote:How about we just modify the format? We could post three stages at a time, twice a week. This way the total duration of the game would be pretty much the same, but you would need to log in only twice a week.


Nah, don't modify the format just for me. If the weather is good in summer, i won't have much time or motivation on weekends either, as i will rather ride my bike then.

Actually, i had planned to design a Tour of Austria, but with the great weather (i love the heat) i only managed to design one stage in the last week. That's a bit too slow for your Giro, i'm afraid. ;)
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