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Race Design Thread

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Re: Race Design Thread

09 Jul 2015 09:48

Tour de France stage 20: Modane - Alp d'Huez
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The great last mountain stage of my tour, nothing more to say
Bye :D
User avatar Gigs_98
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Re: Race Design Thread

09 Jul 2015 14:31

Sorry for the last post I just wanted to know if someone believes it :D
Now the real stage 20:
Tour de France stage 20: Saint Jean de Maurienne - Montgenevre (160 km)
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A stage where all the crucial parts are located in Italy, as the last mountain stage of the tour de france? Yes thats quite strange and probably nothing the ASO would do in a real tour, but when I designed the stage I just wanted to make the best race possible (and at least I put the finish into france). However I am not sure if the way this stage now is designed, is really the best way. For example I had the chance to put some really difficult climbs before the Col de Mont Cenis, I even had the profile of a stage with one more 1st and one more 3rd category climb, but at the end I decided that I try to keep this stage realistic and I think that on the end of a gt something like that is definitely hard enough. Moreover one shouldn't forget that the finestre is a HC and a 1st category climb combined and that with gravel roads.

The stage starts in Saint Jean de Maurienne. Henceforward the next 30 kilometers are completely false flat, which means that teams who try to control the race will have to waste a lot of energy very early. This false flat section ends with the intermediate sprint in Modane, because after the riders passed the town they will have to ride over an uncategorized bump and directly after that the first climb of the day, up to Aussois. After the descent there is another uncategorized climb (When I first saw the profile I thought that would be a tunnel but, no its not) followed by a very short flat section. After the end of the flat things get serious. The Col de Mont Cenis is the first big climb of the day and also the second most difficult one of the stage. The climb is neither very long nor very steep but IMO precisely hard enough to be 1st category. After the ascent there is a little bit of flat on the top before the long descent to Susa starts, where another intermediate sprint takes place. However at this point nobody will care about points for the green jersey because the biggest monster of the whole tour de france follows.
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The Colle delle Finestre is probably my favorite climb ever. There are great ways to use it, it is absolutely brutal and to cap it all the second half of the climb is ridden on gravel roads. I know that in this stage the summit of the Finestre comes almost 50 km's before the finish and that there are two more climbs in this stage but even in this situation the Finestre would be crucial. Probably there wouldn't be any attacks and probably a tour wouldn't be decided directly on this climb, but after this monster even climbs like Sestriere can be very dangerous for the maillot jaune. If someone really wants to turn around the gc on this last day it shouldn't be such a big deal to isolate the leader of the race on the finestre (except you are riding against the sky team from 2012) and then there are two 2nd category climbs to attack the leader.
As you might have guessed (also because I already wrote it) the next climb of the stage is Sestriere
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Normally Finestre stages end here, but this is a Finestre stage in the tdf so nothing is really normal. The climb to Sestriere actually begins directly after the technical descent from Finestre but the first few kilometers of this "climb" are false flat. The real climbing up to Sestriere starts about 9 km before the top. However that still doesn't mean the climb gets steep here. As you can see on the picture the max. gradient is only 9% which is less than the average gradient of the Finestre. After the descent the final climb and mtf of the stage starts. The Col de Montgenevre is obviously a pass but it is definitely possible to use it as a stage finish because of the town Montgenevre which is located on the top of the pass. The climb itself is comparable to Sestriere with the difference that the mtf is a little bit steeper. However this isn't a classical mtf, mainly because of the rest of the stage. The groups which arrive at the bottom of this climb would be much smaller than normally and the time differences you can create on this last climb are pretty small which means that if you have to gain a lot of time, you better try a long range attack. Thats also the reason why I like stages like this as final mountain stages. If the difference between the two leading riders is very small such a stage gives you the chance for a great battle on the last climb, but if you are 2 minutes behind the leader you still get the chance to make a spectacular move from far away.

Montgenevre:
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What do you think? Would this stage be good as the final mountain stage of a gt, or is the Finestre just too far away to cause action? And how did you like my tdf generally.

climbs:
Aussois (3rd cat.)
Col du Mont Cenis (1st cat.)
Colle delle Finestre (HC)
Sestriere (2nd cat.)
Montgenevre (2nd cat.)
User avatar Gigs_98
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09 Jul 2015 15:17

Probably unrealistic, bit still a grest stage. Mont Cenis was used the other way in 2013 when they finished on the Galibier. So i suppose its only fair if a stage of the Tour goes across it in the other way.
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Re:

10 Jul 2015 15:28

Eshnar wrote:The time has come for my race design challenge, people!

You'll have to design your own 100th Giro.

The rules are the following:
- Start and finish must be placed in Italy
- Can't have more than 2 stages abroad
- All the stupid UCI constraints are in effect. I want a believable route. If you need, you can ask the jury for an exception.
- Transfers of more than 75 kms can be made only during rest days



I have been planning Giro mostly around these guidelines. I have tried to respect all these constraints. However, my plan would need to break the last one (by big time) between penultimate and last stage. This happens regularly in Grand Tours, including Tour this year which has transfer from Alpe d'Huez to near Paris.

So I think is should be allowed to break transfer rule once out of 18 possibilities.
Finn84
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10 Jul 2015 15:56

The challenge sounds great, I do not enough knowledge of Italy to take part myself but it sounds wonderful

Would this challenge be better undertaken in a thread of its own?
What are the stupid UCI constraints?
TheGreenMonkey
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Re:

10 Jul 2015 16:20

Libertine Seguros wrote:Start somewhere in Switzerland and you could make that a one-day Classic based on the second half alone. Put it in the Lombardia build up. People will ride.


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First 75 kilometres is easy but you can say the same on some of the well known classic races. Most of the later part is the same as in the route by Gigs_98.

Name could be Tour du Lac de Neuchâtel.
Finn84
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Re:

10 Jul 2015 17:00

TheGreenMonkey wrote:The challenge sounds great, I do not enough knowledge of Italy to take part myself but it sounds wonderful

Would this challenge be better undertaken in a thread of its own?
What are the stupid UCI constraints?

I like the idea of a thread especially for this challenge
User avatar Gigs_98
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Re: Re:

10 Jul 2015 19:26

Finn84 wrote:
Eshnar wrote:The time has come for my race design challenge, people!

You'll have to design your own 100th Giro.

The rules are the following:
- Start and finish must be placed in Italy
- Can't have more than 2 stages abroad
- All the stupid UCI constraints are in effect. I want a believable route. If you need, you can ask the jury for an exception.
- Transfers of more than 75 kms can be made only during rest days



I have been planning Giro mostly around these guidelines. I have tried to respect all these constraints. However, my plan would need to break the last one (by big time) between penultimate and last stage. This happens regularly in Grand Tours, including Tour this year which has transfer from Alpe d'Huez to near Paris.

So I think is should be allowed to break transfer rule once out of 18 possibilities.

mmm... I can allow a long transfer, but only before the last stage and only if that is the usual bland finale. So let's say, only if the last stage is a flat road stage or a short ITT (<=25 km). Ok?

@TheGreenMonkey: Yes I will open a thread in the game section. Don't wanna clog this one up :D
A race that doesn't give an attacker the chance to finish it off alone is not a race anymore.


Bronze Medal at the Great Grand Tour Game 2012

WARNING: Location says Germany, but I'm Italian...
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12 Jul 2015 07:47

How come Plumelec, a 2000 people village from a not-so-touristique region of France can afford to host le Tour for the 5th time while all those sky stations from Alps or Pyrenees can't?
McLovin
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12 Jul 2015 11:04

Decent hilltop finish in a otherwise flattish region (kinda nonsensical that we have two hill finishes in both stages there this year). Cycling tradition I figure. The ASO probably wants to finish there which makes it easier. Also, lots more competition for finishes and money to throw around by some candidates (looking at you La Toussuire) in the Alps I bet.
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Re:

12 Jul 2015 11:12

McLovin wrote:How come Plumelec, a 2000 people village from a not-so-touristique region of France can afford to host le Tour for the 5th time while all those sky stations from Alps or Pyrenees can't?

The region pays quite a bit afaik.
Cancellara is like The Black Album. Really good but way overrated.
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Tour of California 13

12 Jul 2015 12:51

Tour of California stage 13: Yosemite Valley - Huntington Lake; 200 km

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Another mountain stage with MTF awaits in California. I thought this was the stage with largest elevation gain throughout, but I checked it now and it is second in this regard - first is stage 11. That just tells you how hard the 11th stage actually is, because this is a proper mountain stage with little flat along the way.

First 150 km of this stage head south from Yosemite Valley. There are 5 climbs of category 2 or less, which will serve first as a battle for the break to establish and at the same time to thin the bunch before the decisive part. That comes from about 45 km to go, which are at fist sight very similar to the final of the classic Mt Baldy stage. Only the initial climb is considerably harder, Pine ridge with 16 km at 7% is no joke. Moreover there is no descent afterwards. Hence I would expect the racing to be fairly controlled until Big Creek 7 km from the line, unless a favourite has a bad day and struggles to keep up on Pine Ridge. However the 20 km from the top of Pine Ridge to Big Creek are by no means flat and if there is no organisation, one could gain a lot of time in this part.

From Big Creek onwards it is everyone for himself on the ascent to Huntington Lake. This is a hard one, even steeper than Mt Baldy as the average is over 10%. After such a hard day the differences could be counted in minutes here.

Huntington Lake:
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Tour of California 14

12 Jul 2015 13:31

Tour of California stage 14: Fresno - Porterville; 158 km

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A flat stage following the mountains the day before. Not much to say about this one. The last ascent is 18 km from the finish so could be an opportunity for someone to upset the sprinters, but I wouldn't bet on it, the run in is very straightforward.
togo95
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Re: Race Design Thread

18 Jul 2015 21:48

@Eshnar
I started to work on a giro but I just don't have time at the moment. Although I already have some stages ready I definitely can't finish the race until August 3rd, so I would vote for a delay of the beginning.
If there is nobody else who wants that I would apply to become a jury member.
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18 Jul 2015 22:33

Eshnar: I would be very interested in participating in this challenge - I have lurked on the forum for quite a while, including a brief period of posting a while back, including starting to design my own Giro in this thread. However I became very busy and had to abandon it (I might come back to it at some point, there were some meaty mountains lined up in the third week!) only now are things easing off, so I should have time to participate. My only problem is trying to condense the thousands of possibilities and snippets of history that the Giro offers into just 21 stages :eek:
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19 Jul 2015 13:14

All things considered, the challenge start will be postponed for two weeks. It'll start on August 17th. Hope it is ok for everybody :)
A race that doesn't give an attacker the chance to finish it off alone is not a race anymore.


Bronze Medal at the Great Grand Tour Game 2012

WARNING: Location says Germany, but I'm Italian...
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Re:

19 Jul 2015 14:41

Eshnar wrote:All things considered, the challenge start will be postponed for two weeks. It'll start on August 17th. Hope it is ok for everybody :)

thanks :)
User avatar Gigs_98
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Re: Race Design Thread

19 Jul 2015 22:26

Fantasy Tour de France

I'm currently in the process of creating my first fantasy Tour. I've tried to design it fairly realistic, though somewhat harder than the real versions of the Tour. I've also tried to include more hilly stages and medium mountain stages and limit the number of pure sprinter stages. And last but not least; use some new climbs instead of just same the old climbs in the Alps and Pyrenees.

In this version we'll do a counterclockwise loop starting in the north, heading south through Massif Central and into the Pyrenees at stage 8. After the Pyrenees there will be 4 more stages before the riders hits the Alps in stage 15. There will be 2 ITT + prologue and no TTT.

Prologue; Amiens - Amiens, 7,2 km

The Tour starts in Amiens in the north of France with a 7,2 km prologue. The course isn't completly flat and has a height difference of 40 meters. Map and profile below:

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OlavEH
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19 Jul 2015 22:35

Stage 1: Amiens - Reims, 202 km

The first stage takes the riders east from Amiens to the cathedral city of Reims. The stage has some hilly terrain, but no categorized climbs, and the last 30-40 kms are mostly flat which makes it very possible that this will be showdown between the sprinters.

Profile:

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Map:

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OlavEH
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19 Jul 2015 22:53

Stage 2: Verdun - Mousson, 200 km

Stage 2 will take the riders into more hilly and difficult terrain. The stage starts in Verdun, the site of the most famous (and bloody) battle in World War 1 and most of the stage will go through places which saw some of the worst fighting in WW1. The first categorized climb in this years Tour starts already after 2 km, and the riders will face more hills in the last half of the stage.

The riders continues east towards Metz, where they will face the second climb of the day, Mont St. Quentin. From there the riders will face the hilly terrain south of Metz and additional 3 cat 4 climbs before the last and toughest climb to the stage finish in the small village of Mousson, south of Metz. The last climb is 1,4 km and over 10 %, which will surely be a battle between the puncheurs in the peloton.

Climbs:
4 km: Cote St. Michel: 2,4 km, 4,3 %, cat 4
121 km: Mont St. Quentin: 2,4 km, 5,1 %, cat 4
135 km: Croix St. Clement: 1,6 km, 7.9 %. cat 4
166 km: Croix des Carmes: 2,4 km, 4,5 %, cat 4
190 km: Bezaumont: 1,2 km, 8,9 %, cat 4
200 km: Mousson: 1,4 km, 10,2 %

Profile:

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Map:

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