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22 Jul 2015 21:51

Stage 15: Nice, Valberg, 150 km

Finally, it's time for the first Alps stage. And for this, the riders will have to face some of the most underused climbs in the history of the Tour, especially the last decades. Together with perhaps Superbagneres and Mont du Chat, it's completely incomprehensible to understand why the climbs of Turini, Saint Martin and Couillole haven't been used since the mid 1970s. The location close to Nice, should make this climbs a very feasible option, but still they are hardly used.

Anyway, the riders starts in Nice and heads north over the second categories of Calaisson and Braus. After about 50 km, and with 100 km left, thing heats up and the real challenging part of the stage starts. First the riders will have to climb Col de Turini, an almost 20 km long cat.1 climb, and perhaps one of the more spectacular climbs of Alps because of the narrow roads and hairpins clinging to the mountainside. After descending from Turini, they'll immidiately start the next climb to St-Martin. Not to steep, but almost 20 km of climbing will be felt in the rider's legs.

Another descent and a few km of flat, before the main challenge of the day. Col de Couillole, almost 14 km and average gradient of more than 8 %. The climb is relentless and the average slope of a single km is never under 7 %, giving the riders no rest. From the top of Couillole, there is a short downhill of 7-8 kms, before the last gentle uphill to the ski resort of Valberg. The last climb is probably to easy to make a difference, so the gain time the riders will have to attack on Couillole.

Climbs:
21 km: Col de Calaisson: 6 km, 6,2 %, cat 2
35 km: Col de Braus: 9,6 km, 6,7 %, cat 2
68 km: Col de Turini, 19,4 km, 6 %, cat 1
102 km: Col St.Martin: 19,6 km, 4,8 %, cat 1
136 km: Col de Couillole, 13,8 km, 8,2 %, cat HC:
150 km: Valberg: 6,4 km, 3,6 %, cat 3

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OlavEH
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22 Jul 2015 22:03

Now that is a Mercantour stage!
User avatar MikeTichondrius
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22 Jul 2015 22:32

Stage 16: Gap - Chambery, 204 km

Another cracker of a mountain stage, but this time with a downhill finish. The first half of the stage takes the riders over 3 cat. 2 climbs from Gap towards Grenoble. But instead of heading along the main road to Grenoble after descending fra Morte, the riders will just head straight across the valley and start the brutal climb to Col Luitel, a very steep climb on narrow and bad roads.

After Luitel, the course turns onto the road to the ski resort of Chamrousse, descend towards Grenoble and then head north across the small village of Saint Nizier. After crossing the river of Isere, the next steep and brutal climb awaits; this time to the village of Saint Pancrasse, just below Col du Coq. The riders won't go over Coq, however, but descend and continue up the valley to Chapareillan. There they will start the last climb of the day, to Col du Grainer. Almost 10 km and 9 % gradient will hurt when they've climbed 3000 height meters earlier on the stage. The last 16 km descent to Chambery gives the best descenders in the peloton a chance to gain some time.

Climbs:
9 km: Col Bayard: 7,8 km, 6,2 %, cat 2
67 km: Oris-en-Rattier: 5,1 km, 5,5 %, cat 2
82 km: Col de la Morte: 3,7 km, 7,5 %, cat 2
106 km: Col Luitel: 9,4 km, 9,5 %, cat 1
124 km: Saint Nizier: 5,4 km, 6,2 %, cat 2
151 km: Saint Pancrasse (Col de Coq), 12 km, 6,3 %, cat 1
188 km: Col du Granier: 9,7 km, 8,9 %, cat 1

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OlavEH
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23 Jul 2015 22:20

Stage 17: Chambery - Morzine-Avoriaz, 224 km

Last mountain stage, and this should be one for the ages. Over 220 km with 8 categorized climbs and over 5200 height meters. The race time could be 6 1/2 to 7 hours, and it's possible to lose a lot of time if you crack at Joux-Plane with another difficult climb to the finish in Avoriaz.

The riders start in Chambery and head northeast towards Albertville. Before they reach Albertville, they turn north over Col de Tamie and then south over Col de la Forclaz, both cat.2 climbs. But that's just to soften the riders legs before the real climbing starts. After 90 km the climb to Saises starts, and are followed by Aravis and de la Colombiere, three frequently used climbs in the Tour, and perhaps best known from Floyd Landis' monster breakaway in 2006.

Like then the course also crosses Cote de Chatilon and heads east towards Samoens where the brutal climb to Joux-Plane starts. Almost 12 km and 9 %, this is a real killer, and it was here Armstrong almost cracked in the 2000 edition. But unlike then, the riders won't finish in Morzine, but have to climb to the ski resort of Avoriaz above the city. With over 200 km and 4300 height meters in their legs already, the last climb could be pure torture after at least 6 hours on the bike.

Climbs:
50 km: Col de Tamie, 9,6 km, 6,1 %, cat 2
78 km: Col de la Forclaz: 4,7 km, 6%, cat 2
105 km: Col des Saises: 15 km, 6,2 %, cat 1
130 km: Col des Aravis: 8,5 km, 6,4 %, cat 2
155 km: Col de la Colombiere 12,3 km, 5,7 %, cat 1
178 km: Cote de Chatillon: 5,6 km, 4,6 %, cat 3
199 km: Col de Joux-Plane: 11,6 km, 8,8 %, cat HC
224 km: Morzine Avoriaz: 13,2 km, 6,2 %, cat 1

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OlavEH
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23 Jul 2015 23:11

Brutal.
User avatar Libertine Seguros
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24 Jul 2015 11:24

That is a proper stage!
User avatar jsem94
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Re:

24 Jul 2015 16:49

jsem94 wrote:That is a proper stage!

Well I think there is hardly anyone here who has never thought about something like saisies - Aravis - Colombiere - Chatillon - Joux Plane - Avoriaz (or at least joux plane - avoriaz)
However of course a great stage.
User avatar Gigs_98
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Re: Re:

24 Jul 2015 17:04

Gigs_98 wrote:
jsem94 wrote:That is a proper stage!

Well I think there is hardly anyone here who has never thought about something like saisies - Aravis - Colombiere - Chatillon - Joux Plane - Avoriaz (or at least joux plane - avoriaz)
However of course a great stage.


Yep, a pretty obvious queen stage. Almost as obvious as a Portillon - Peyresourde - Azet - Ancizan - Tourmalet - Luz Ardiden stage. That's a combination we will never see in the Tour!

Too bad ASO doesn't dare to use the combination of Joux-Plane - Avoriaz. My top wishes for TDF stages would be something like this:

1. Mont du Chat
2. Joux-Plane - Avoriaz
3. Madeleine - Valmorel
4. Bales - Superbagneres
5. Aubsique - Hautacam.

And perhaps a Iseran-Galibier-Le Deux Alps.
OlavEH
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Re: Re:

24 Jul 2015 17:06

OlavEH wrote:
Gigs_98 wrote:
jsem94 wrote:That is a proper stage!

Well I think there is hardly anyone here who has never thought about something like saisies - Aravis - Colombiere - Chatillon - Joux Plane - Avoriaz (or at least joux plane - avoriaz)
However of course a great stage.


Yep, a pretty obvious queen stage. Almost as obvious as a Portillon - Peyresourde - Azet - Ancizan - Tourmalet - Luz Ardiden stage. That's a combination we will never see in the Tour!

Too bad ASO doesn't dare to use the combination of Joux-Plane - Avoriaz. My top wishes for TDF stages would be something like this:

1. Mont du Chat
2. Joux-Plane - Avoriaz
3. Madeleine - Valmorel
4. Bales - Superbagneres
5. Aubsique - Spandelles - Hautacam.

And perhaps a Iseran-Galibier-Le Deux Alps.

Fixed that for you ;)
Cancellara is like The Black Album. Really good but way overrated.
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Re: Re:

24 Jul 2015 17:10

OlavEH wrote:
Gigs_98 wrote:
jsem94 wrote:That is a proper stage!

Well I think there is hardly anyone here who has never thought about something like saisies - Aravis - Colombiere - Chatillon - Joux Plane - Avoriaz (or at least joux plane - avoriaz)
However of course a great stage.


Yep, a pretty obvious queen stage. Almost as obvious as a Portillon - Peyresourde - Azet - Ancizan - Tourmalet - Luz Ardiden stage. That's a combination we will never see in the Tour!

Too bad ASO doesn't dare to use the combination of Joux-Plane - Avoriaz. My top wishes for TDF stages would be something like this:

1. Mont du Chat
2. Joux-Plane - Avoriaz
3. Madeleine - Valmorel
4. Bales - Superbagneres
5. Aubsique - Hautacam.

And perhaps a Iseran-Galibier-Le Deux Alps.

Biche - Grand Colombier would be great too. It only has the problem that there is hardly any chance to make a finish with this combination near to it. Maybe a finish in Rumilly after the Col de Clegeron, but that way most of the action would happen on the Clegeron and probably nothing on the Col de la Biche.
User avatar Gigs_98
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24 Jul 2015 17:41

Izoard - Granon
Issarbe - Pierre Saint Martin
Bonette - Auron
Cayolle - Super-Sauze
Chansert - Béal
Mont Bisanne - Pré-Cormet de Roseland
User avatar Libertine Seguros
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24 Jul 2015 17:43

Is this the same Côte de Châtillon, cause it seems closer to Joux-Plane than the usual Tour route
User avatar roundabout
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Re:

24 Jul 2015 18:47

roundabout wrote:Is this the same Côte de Châtillon, cause it seems closer to Joux-Plane than the usual Tour route

Two possibilities:
1) the length of the stage has compressed it so it looks closer but then all the climbs would look steeper comparatively as well
2) the route takes the very narrow (potentially too narrow for the Tour?) road that goes towards Mathonex to cut the corner off rather than going all the way to Samoëns before starting Joux-Plane. I suspect a real route would need to go through Samoëns for the sake of the race caravan and also money, but in a stage as brutal as this it wouldn't change much - add an extra 3-4km but realistically all the key moves will be on the last two climbs.
User avatar Libertine Seguros
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24 Jul 2015 19:06

you guys have interesting ideas. has any of these influenced the parcours of a GT yet?
malakassis
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Re: Re:

24 Jul 2015 19:19

Libertine Seguros wrote:
roundabout wrote:Is this the same Côte de Châtillon, cause it seems closer to Joux-Plane than the usual Tour route

Two possibilities:
1) the length of the stage has compressed it so it looks closer but then all the climbs would look steeper comparatively as well
2) the route takes the very narrow (potentially too narrow for the Tour?) road that goes towards Mathonex to cut the corner off rather than going all the way to Samoëns before starting Joux-Plane. I suspect a real route would need to go through Samoëns for the sake of the race caravan and also money, but in a stage as brutal as this it wouldn't change much - add an extra 3-4km but realistically all the key moves will be on the last two climbs.


It's 21km between the 2 summits in the profile

It's usually 26.5 as seen in the 2006 profile

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road/2006//tour06/?id=stages/tour0617
User avatar roundabout
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Re: Re:

24 Jul 2015 21:05

Libertine Seguros wrote:
roundabout wrote:Is this the same Côte de Châtillon, cause it seems closer to Joux-Plane than the usual Tour route

Two possibilities:
1) the length of the stage has compressed it so it looks closer but then all the climbs would look steeper comparatively as well
2) the route takes the very narrow (potentially too narrow for the Tour?) road that goes towards Mathonex to cut the corner off rather than going all the way to Samoëns before starting Joux-Plane. I suspect a real route would need to go through Samoëns for the sake of the race caravan and also money, but in a stage as brutal as this it wouldn't change much - add an extra 3-4km but realistically all the key moves will be on the last two climbs.


Partially alternative 2. I looked at the route now, and it seems like as it doesn't follow the highway to Samoens, but instead follows road D4 past the village of Morillon. Then it turns north towards Mathonex but cuts to the main road to Joux Plane before reaching Mathonex. I guess 3-4 km extra is a pretty good guess.
OlavEH
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24 Jul 2015 21:08

Agnel (Italian Side) - Saint Véran would be fantastic and there are at least 2 great climbs that I'd love to see before Agnel, but I don't think that ASO would ever do that, it's just too awesome for them :D
User avatar Mayomaniac
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Re:

24 Jul 2015 23:21

malakassis wrote:you guys have interesting ideas. has any of these influenced the parcours of a GT yet?

What do you mean with influence. If you just mean that it has been used then: hardly anyone of these. The only one I know for sure is the Mont du Chat but thats a long time ago.
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25 Jul 2015 01:31

An excellent mountain stage from OlavEH even if not that original.

Those combinations listed are also excellent although I do not know them all. The main trouble with the Tour is even if they used those finishing combinations and they don't, they would make it a short stage with hardly any other climbing, not a 220km stage with lots of mountains.
TheGreenMonkey
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25 Jul 2015 03:52

I am trying to use cronoeslada and it keeps either not giving a profile or giving a profile for half the stage.
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