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Re:

13 Jul 2018 09:41

djpbaltimore wrote:Over the long view, 19 states have banned the death penalty and they are almost exclusively in the NE and Midwest. I can't remember a time when democrats were 'for' the death penalty and since 2007, they have actively tried to legislate it out of existence. It is true that it was not part of the national platform until 2016, but as Scott is so eager to point out, neither was gay marriage until recently when Biden forced the issue with Obama. Time to update the green talking points.


What you and Scott want to argue on gay marriage isn’t really relevant here. If anything I’d think you’d want to be less defensive when and if reading these things. I’d have to question how seriously some silent majority of Democrats supported gay marriage back when. Any account of the NY AIDS crisis and public handling would have to question that. SF sure.

http://www.people-press.org/2015/04/16/less-support-for-death-penalty-especially-among-democrats/

My link title may seemingly back your overall claim but the years of polling it contains don’t.

Hey Ho

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2016/11/bill-clinton-rickey-rector-death-penalty-execution-crime-racism/

I guess Hillary had time to soften a bit

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5776d56de4b0a629c1aa0984

If you’re calling counterpunch “green”, I’d get your own talking points in order.
Last edited by aphronesis on 13 Jul 2018 12:51, edited 1 time in total.
aphronesis
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Re: U.S. Politics

13 Jul 2018 12:19

Herr drumph pisses on Merkel and May(May in her own country :surprised: )...methinks donnie has a problem(well he has lots of problems) with strong women..

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44819466

Big mouth, insert little foot, again..he just can't keep his mouth shut. On Brexit, "I told her how to do it, she didn't listen"..arrogant pri$k..
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Re: U.S. Politics

13 Jul 2018 12:54

More Herr Drumoh, 'make america alone' again.
Trump also likes to claim other countries are “laughing” at us, and now they’ll damn well “respect” us again. But here, too, even if our allies ponied up bigly, they wouldn’t “respect” us at all. They would only continue to see us as a threat to the stability of the Western liberal order. Fear of an erratic, unpredictable America run by a madman isn’t genuine respect for America. Even if Trump got his way, how would that outcome be worth all these downsides?

“But Trump is now leaving this NATO summit with every other leader convinced that he is a threat to NATO and an unstable actor. He’s damaged the standing of the presidency and undermined the post-World War II international order.”

Trump cannot explain why undermining that order constitutes “winning,” because at best, Trump is operating from a deeply incoherent idea about what winning would entail in the first place. At worst, his ever escalating demands are designed not to be met but to create a pretext for precipitating a fissure with the alliance, or continuing to damage it in other ways. After all, he doesn’t see value in it anyway.


meanwhile, donnie's best friend in all the world(next to Kim, of course) is Vlad..he's loving this conflict w/i his primary opponent, NATO.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2018/07/12/trumps-latest-lie-at-nato-blows-up-his-idea-of-winning/?utm_term=.b2c274e8893b
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Re: Re:

13 Jul 2018 13:34

aphronesis wrote:
What you and Scott want to argue on gay marriage isn’t really relevant here. If anything I’d think you’d want to be less defensive when and if reading these things. I’d have to question how seriously some silent majority of Democrats supported gay marriage back when. Any account of the NY AIDS crisis and public handling would have to question that. SF sure.

http://www.people-press.org/2015/04/16/less-support-for-death-penalty-especially-among-democrats/

My link title may seemingly back your overall claim but the years of polling it contains don’t.

Hey Ho

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2016/11/bill-clinton-rickey-rector-death-penalty-execution-crime-racism/

I guess Hillary had time to soften a bit

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5776d56de4b0a629c1aa0984

If you’re calling counterpunch “green”, I’d get your own talking points in order.
Politely correcting a clear error by the author is now being "defensive"? Those numbers do support my assertion that 2016 was not some big switch in democratic opinion. I am going to go out on a limb and say that the majority of dems still want the Dahmers or the Boston marathon bombers of the world to be executed. The problem as you are well aware is how many innocent minorities get sent to death row. More people are understanding that and I think that is why opinion has gone from 70-30 to 40-60 within the party. Gay marriage is a good analogy because both it and death penalty politics were unspoken planks of the party years before they were actual planks.

No, the author is a green and the critique was directed at him, not the publication. Instead of filtering every news story through Clinton lenses, maybe it is time to listen to what current democrats think. Maddow harps on the death penalty incessantly on her show. Isn't she the gold standard neoliberal dem nowadays?
Donald Trump: “If you go back to the Civil War, it was the Republicans who did the thing.”
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13 Jul 2018 14:41

Look man, I don’t want to bog down in this. If you read the sentence in question, it can easily go many ways depending on if you’re talking leadership, rank and file, policy or some admixture of the three. Said distinction being likely undefined in your debate with Scott. As it was written you corrected no error but sought to update a position. There’s a difference

I have recourse to Clintonism when taking the long view: post 80 when many of the values of the 60s were jettisoned for “pragmatic” purposes. I’m happy to read other histories through Obama rather than just live in a perpetual present.

I restrict my intake of Maddow to whatever pointless paraphrases the party faithful try to pass off on me. She’s selling media; not politics.
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13 Jul 2018 15:57

To expand our vocabulary here.. capital punishment or death penalty can also be described as the murder solution..were the government murders someone because they have determined that murdering that person is justified.
Is spending the limited time to travel abroad criticizing our allies.. everything about them from mayor, economy immigration.. the ones that got away.. Boris Johnson.. the UN , their culture.. even going as far as to say he doesn't feel welcome.. these are things a teenage girl does but not a president.
The answer from the right and left to if this type of behavior benefits the countries overall representation, the US international objectives..is clear.This hurts the US.
Spending US tax dollars to insult people is not in America's best interest.

The entire network of MSNBC feeds the Trump machine more effectively than anything he could have constructed himself.. if every host on every program has the focus of soiling Trump it's not news it's a waste of time. There is almost nowhere to watch for the middle.. just extreme right were everything Trump does and says is correct and the left channels were everything Trump does is somehow sinister..
EPA for example.. how could the choice of putting a former coal industry lobbyist be substantiated? It's an different type of choice that should be explained to the public.. education..? HUD..? This is why these people with no practical experience in this field have been chosen to try and help the American public and the agency objectives.. so when the left argues that it's crazy and irresponsible..ok.. the right saying that it's the President's prerogative.. that is an answer also but it doesn't address if it's the best for the country.
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13 Jul 2018 15:59

This is the same party that dismantled the welfare system while increasing corporate welfare. This is the same party that claims to believe in climate change but hasn’t done a damn thing to stop Big Oil. This is the same party that supports the death penalty, mass incarceration and a militarized Police State.
The context clearly indicates that he is talking about the power brokers and politicians, not the rank and file. I know that you get that. Note he use 'dismantled' in past tense but 'supports' in the present tense. A lot of his points are well taken as I have already noted, but this one makes him seem like a person who has not bothered to actually look at the issues, preferring to argue against a straw man democratic platform. I do give him the benefit of the doubt that it was an error and not a blatant misrepresentation, but it is an error nonetheless.
Donald Trump: “If you go back to the Civil War, it was the Republicans who did the thing.”
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13 Jul 2018 16:32

Let’s do this. Given his occupation, I think he knows the score and until the rubber hits the road beyond Maddow and her weepy couch dwellers, we can imagine that he was being provocative. You bit.

Moreover, I take party in such essays to functioning as what the linguists would call a deictic shifter and try to avoid seeking firm referents for passing claims. Rather, I try to think about the conditions under which the claim might be viable.
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13 Jul 2018 17:00

Aphro your analysis and dissection of the language and viability of statements and actions are admirable. The public at large is not working at the refined message from Rachel or Trump.. probably nothing more than a quick reenforcement from the echo chamber.
Nothing proposed on MSNBC is viable.. take the message of outrage and uprising.. where is the audience and message being digested in large numbers..NYC and spots in California..
The call to action was almost completely ignored.. just more of the same.. California election turn out was nothing..no enormous ethnic turnout..no substantial anything.. if Trump is doing things that truly enrage people.. if Maddow and company have a message.. people may be listening and watching but all from the comfort of a sofa..
Trump saying racist and sexist thing here and abroad is no call to action for anybody on the American left.. voters didn't show up to register a gay rights message, no family together anything, no droves of females protecting anything..
People of color couldn't be bothered..
The Federalist movement is going to roll over this country like a steam roller.. reproductive rights, sexual freedom and affirmative action..all in the toilet.. if you are gay, black, brown, non Christian or female just roll over and play dead it will save time..
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Re:

13 Jul 2018 18:56

aphronesis wrote:Let’s do this. Given his occupation, I think he knows the score and until the rubber hits the road beyond Maddow and her weepy couch dwellers, we can imagine that he was being provocative. You bit.

Moreover, I take party in such essays to functioning as what the linguists would call a deictic shifter and try to avoid seeking firm referents for passing claims. Rather, I try to think about the conditions under which the claim might be viable.
Given that he lists beachgoer as his third descriptor on twitter, I am going to go out on a limb and say that there is a good possibility that he does not actually know the score. But it is possible that he did do it intentionally to provoke. I put it to him on twitter. If he responds, I will add to this post.

Christina Wilkie
‏@christinawilkie
Trump on July 27, 2016: "Russia, if you're listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing."

Russia on July 27, 2016 "Attempted after hours to spearphish for the first time email accounts ... used by Clinton's personal office."
Oops, I guess the Russians did not know that they were supposed to take the president seriously but not literally.

https://twitter.com/christinawilkie/status/1017816565847347201

12 Russian military men indicted for charges related to the DNC hacking.

https://www.justice.gov/file/1080281/download
Donald Trump: “If you go back to the Civil War, it was the Republicans who did the thing.”
djpbaltimore
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Re: Re:

14 Jul 2018 00:01

djpbaltimore wrote:
aphronesis wrote:Let’s do this. Given his occupation, I think he knows the score and until the rubber hits the road beyond Maddow and her weepy couch dwellers, we can imagine that he was being provocative. You bit.

Moreover, I take party in such essays to functioning as what the linguists would call a deictic shifter and try to avoid seeking firm referents for passing claims. Rather, I try to think about the conditions under which the claim might be viable.
Given that he lists beachgoer as his third descriptor on twitter, I am going to go out on a limb and say that there is a good possibility that he does not actually know the score. But it is possible that he did do it intentionally to provoke. I put it to him on twitter. If he responds, I will add to this post.

Christina Wilkie
‏@christinawilkie
Trump on July 27, 2016: "Russia, if you're listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing."

Russia on July 27, 2016 "Attempted after hours to spearphish for the first time email accounts ... used by Clinton's personal office."
Oops, I guess the Russians did not know that they were supposed to take the president seriously but not literally.

https://twitter.com/christinawilkie/status/1017816565847347201

12 Russian military men indicted for charges related to the DNC hacking.

https://www.justice.gov/file/1080281/download


This just foreshadows the American co-conspirators. The Republican Party has tried to suppress this investigation. This is traitorous.
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14 Jul 2018 01:31

In Thursday's San Diego Union newspaper.. there was a cartoon.. people were running out of a Holocaust memorial.. going in all directions .. there was one guy that was not part of the distressed group..he was yelling out " I don't see why everyone is so upset.. everything done was legal at the time"..
Can't help but wonder how many like minded work in our White House..

We stole people kids.. the police in our country took another person's child and refuse to return the kids to their parents..in 2018 in the United States of America..
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Re:

14 Jul 2018 11:03

Unchained wrote:In Thursday's San Diego Union newspaper.. there was a cartoon.. people were running out of a Holocaust memorial.. going in all directions .. there was one guy that was not part of the distressed group..he was yelling out " I don't see why everyone is so upset.. everything done was legal at the time"..
Can't help but wonder how many like minded work in our White House..

We stole people kids.. the police in our country took another person's child and refuse to return the kids to their parents..in 2018 in the United States of America..


This is the key point: legalities and illegalities are how cultures morph. But people generally take them as normative, rather than questioning the actual point of their ends as well as their ripple effects.
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14 Jul 2018 12:46

Trump met the Queen yesterday.

As far as I am aware he didn't grab her pussy.
(Warning: Posts may contain traces of irony)
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Re: U.S. Politics

14 Jul 2018 12:52

User avatar Bustedknuckle
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14 Jul 2018 15:26

Trump is familiar with what European fabric exactly? Lecturing Europe as a whole that they are less than what they were? Based on what?
To see Trump snuggle and suck up with the new Turkish king was an act of dumb only Trump can keep one upping..
Does he know that the the European Union that he trashes was the ultimate for Turkey? Does he know that Germany had such labor shortages that they paid the way for Guest Workers? Subsidized... everything. Does Trump know that Turkey was looked at as what a secular Muslim country could look like.. does he know that Turkey used to be a key component to our military fortification in Europe and elsewhere.. there were probably as many US aircraft in Turkish airspace as civilian planes..
Were does Trump get his European news, information and history? Does he speak a foreign language, but is just holding back while, French, Mexican, Canadian and German leaders meet him without Interrupters in the room?
What European country is Trump familiar with?
None of this is a surprise coming from a clown that proclaimed the coast is clear..no danger.. everything is safe..in North Korea after one meeting.. and we are now getting to look at what negotiating a great deal looks like in Trump's head.. the North Korean clods called him a gangster style negotiator..
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15 Jul 2018 05:28

Some placards from Trump's visit to UK

https://www.sadanduseless.com/donald-meets-england/
(Warning: Posts may contain traces of irony)
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Re:

15 Jul 2018 12:25

Unchained wrote:Trump is familiar with what European fabric exactly? Lecturing Europe as a whole that they are less than what they were? Based on what?
To see Trump snuggle and suck up with the new Turkish king was an act of dumb only Trump can keep one upping..
Does he know that the the European Union that he trashes was the ultimate for Turkey? Does he know that Germany had such labor shortages that they paid the way for Guest Workers? Subsidized... everything. Does Trump know that Turkey was looked at as what a secular Muslim country could look like.. does he know that Turkey used to be a key component to our military fortification in Europe and elsewhere.. there were probably as many US aircraft in Turkish airspace as civilian planes..
Were does Trump get his European news, information and history? Does he speak a foreign language, but is just holding back while, French, Mexican, Canadian and German leaders meet him without Interrupters in the room?
What European country is Trump familiar with?
None of this is a surprise coming from a clown that proclaimed the coast is clear..no danger.. everything is safe..in North Korea after one meeting.. and we are now getting to look at what negotiating a great deal looks like in Trump's head.. the North Korean clods called him a gangster style negotiator..


He likes Turkey and Erdogan because he's a tough guy..like he likes Kim, Duarte, putin..tough guys..
His European experience?..his grandfather was german...his family are recent IMMIGRANTS and here, along with skipping mandatory military service(surprise), his grandfather was booted out of Germany.
https://www.sbs.com.au/topics/life/culture/article/2017/08/22/read-letter-donald-trumps-grandfather-wrote-begging-not-be-deported
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15 Jul 2018 13:30

(Warning: Posts may contain traces of irony)
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Re: U.S. Politics

15 Jul 2018 14:06

Can't make this stuff up...
Before he hit the links for the 120th time(!!) during his presidency, the president made clear that he wouldn’t just be schmoozing on the links, but getting a nice cardio workout.

I have arrived in Scotland and will be at Trump Turnberry for two days of meetings, calls and hopefully, some golf - my primary form of exercise!

Trump hit the links Saturday, playing the course using a golf cart, which he drove. Most players at Turnberry, unless they have a note from their doctor, are required to walk the course, though they can hire caddies to wheel their bags of clubs.


Fatso can't make 18 holes w/o putting his fat **** in a cart..hilarious.
President Donald Trump waving a protestors who are calling him racist as he plays golf at


http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/07/trump-bends-rules-uses-forbidden-golf-cart-at-turnberry.html
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