Log in:  

Register

U.S. Politics

Grab a short black and come join in the non-cycling discussion. Favourite books, movies, holiday destinations, other sports - chat about it all in the cafe.

Moderators: Eshnar, Irondan, King Boonen, Red Rick, Pricey_sky

Re: Re:

14 Sep 2018 02:27

rhubroma wrote:
red_flanders wrote:
rhubroma wrote:I'm perplexed over how not having a magic wand is an alibi for not even putting up a fight, also at the expense of a second term. I mean corporate welfare continued unabated, finance capitalism resumed it's old ways, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were prolonged and reinforced, the disparity between wealth and the rest of society grew unchecked, public services and education continued to be enfeabled, the policies toward the subaltern classes weren't prioritized, business and consumer hegemony ran their inexorable triumph at the universities, etc. Moses did not even attempt to punish the Korists. But, then again, Moses the magus did have a magic wand...


It's not an alibi for anything. I'm certain I didn't claim it was.

I don't disagree with all the things you cite. I'll grant you all of it.

So what's the remedy? Re-elect a criminal idiot? Until someone can point to a solution, I'll continue to be motivated by real and meaningful differences in policy. Sanders would have made more of a difference, and my wife and I gave him money, time, and votes. He didn't make it, which is a shame.

Doesn't mean Trump and Obama are the same, or even close. Tell someone dying without health care about "subaltern classes". Should be a nice conversation, albeit brief.


Ah, but this is what is so essential and yet so supressed.


More crumbs please.

No doubt the Yemenese drone victims were impressed by Obama’s command of English. Surely they topk that as a meaningful and relevant difference over W.
aphronesis
Veteran
 
Posts: 6,634
Joined: 30 Jul 2011 16:47
Location: Bed-Stuy

14 Sep 2018 03:46

aphronesis
Veteran
 
Posts: 6,634
Joined: 30 Jul 2011 16:47
Location: Bed-Stuy

Re:

14 Sep 2018 13:02

aphronesis wrote:https://www.truthdig.com/articles/trump-is-not-the-problem/


Really, really excellent.
The point of this informal midterm report card is not to argue that Donald Trump has somehow failed. It is rather to highlight his essential irrelevance.

Trump is not the disruptive force that anti-Trumpers accuse him of being. He is merely a noxious, venal, and ineffectual blowhard, who has assembled a team of associates who are themselves, with few exceptions, noxious, venal, or ineffectual.

So here’s the upshot of it all: if you were basically okay with where America was headed prior to November 2016, just take a deep breath and think of Donald Trump as the political equivalent of a kidney stone — not fun, but sooner or later, it will pass. And when it does, normalcy will return. Soon enough you’ll forget it ever happened.
User avatar Bustedknuckle
Veteran
 
Posts: 5,067
Joined: 23 Jul 2009 15:38
Location: USofA

Re: Re:

14 Sep 2018 19:18

aphronesis wrote:
rhubroma wrote:
red_flanders wrote:
rhubroma wrote:I'm perplexed over how not having a magic wand is an alibi for not even putting up a fight, also at the expense of a second term. I mean corporate welfare continued unabated, finance capitalism resumed it's old ways, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were prolonged and reinforced, the disparity between wealth and the rest of society grew unchecked, public services and education continued to be enfeabled, the policies toward the subaltern classes weren't prioritized, business and consumer hegemony ran their inexorable triumph at the universities, etc. Moses did not even attempt to punish the Korists. But, then again, Moses the magus did have a magic wand...


It's not an alibi for anything. I'm certain I didn't claim it was.

I don't disagree with all the things you cite. I'll grant you all of it.

So what's the remedy? Re-elect a criminal idiot? Until someone can point to a solution, I'll continue to be motivated by real and meaningful differences in policy. Sanders would have made more of a difference, and my wife and I gave him money, time, and votes. He didn't make it, which is a shame.

Doesn't mean Trump and Obama are the same, or even close. Tell someone dying without health care about "subaltern classes". Should be a nice conversation, albeit brief.


Ah, but this is what is so essential and yet so supressed.


More crumbs please.

No doubt the Yemenese drone victims were impressed by Obama’s command of English. Surely they topk that as a meaningful and relevant difference over W.


I'll assume you're smart enough that you don't actually think that's my point.

Differences include, but certainly not limited to:

  • Leaving Paris Climate Accord
  • Trade wars
  • Ending bank payouts to help homeowners harmed by illegal mortgage lending
  • Ending Obama-era student loan protections
  • Revision of food labeling enhancements
  • Loosening of rules on beryllium exposure (more dead people)
  • Impending defeat of wetlands protection act
  • Removal of renewable energy standards
  • Removal of restrictions on drilling on BLM land
  • Opening new arctic areas to drilling
  • Allowing states to opt out of Obamacare regulations
  • Numerous reversals of Obama environmental policy
  • Reinstating property seizure laws stopped under Obama
  • Targeting elimination of fuel standards
  • Repeal of fracking rule
  • Shrinking several national monuments
  • Allowing police to buy more military equipment
  • Clean Power Plan to be repealed
  • Delay in ruling on formaldehyde regulation (this directly affects me personally, I was ***ed by this chemical)
  • Walk back of Holder policy on Transgender discrimination
  • Weakening of NATO
  • Withdrawl from UNESCO
  • Promotion of coal as power source

...and on and on and on...

Now I agree with about 1 in 10 things he's done, it's not ALL bad. But the idea that there isn't a meaningful difference in the lives of millions of people between these two administrations...is simply false.
User avatar red_flanders
Veteran
 
Posts: 6,081
Joined: 03 Apr 2009 06:45

14 Sep 2018 19:53

Sounds like a conservative agenda to me. No one said there wasn’t any difference between the two. Mostly quantitative. I fail to see what the original remarks had to do with this.

But um, it’s not as if the police didn’t have military equipment before. And that might come into conflict with your NATO concern.
aphronesis
Veteran
 
Posts: 6,634
Joined: 30 Jul 2011 16:47
Location: Bed-Stuy

14 Sep 2018 19:57

So much talk, but no corrective measures to counteract the destructive praxis of our "civilization." And this is because there are no incentives to stimulate, rather than destroy.
User avatar rhubroma
Veteran
 
Posts: 7,648
Joined: 02 Apr 2009 14:31

Re:

14 Sep 2018 20:23

aphronesis wrote:Sounds like a conservative agenda to me. No one said there wasn’t any difference between the two. Mostly quantitative. I fail to see what the original remarks had to do with this.


Yes, it's a conservative agenda. Combine that with the criminal and utterly corrupt administration, possible treason, and the utter removal of standards of decency and you have a night and day difference.

But your'e backpedalling quickly. Every comment you've made in the last few pages has been to suggest there isn't a meaningful difference. If not, I struggle to grasp what your beef is with my posts.

Still waiting for solutions from those who are rightly pointing out all the faults with western civilization. Finding problems is easy, banal even. Finding solutions takes hard thought and a problem-solving mind.
User avatar red_flanders
Veteran
 
Posts: 6,081
Joined: 03 Apr 2009 06:45

14 Sep 2018 20:36

What is decency?
User avatar rhubroma
Veteran
 
Posts: 7,648
Joined: 02 Apr 2009 14:31

Re:

14 Sep 2018 20:40


So no matter what little diddy you. choose..musical chairs,hot potato, or wrong place wrong time this belongs to Trump..did sexual harassment of restaurant workers start under Trump? Of course not..was Trump at the helm as metoo.pulled in? Yes..did Trump say that women who experience unwanted sexual talk or touching at work find a new job?yes..did he state the people in the #meetoo movement were being too sensitive?yes..and he was cheered by the crowd he was rallying...
Trump marginalized many groups and that will probably at as the biggest impediment to people who don't want anything sexual as they make burgers and fries..or box up happy meals for children..
The biggest issue we face as a county is right and wrong..a man sitting on his sofa,in his apartment was murdered after someone unlawfully entered and shot him in cold blood..his race and the killers occupation make a difference how much man's life and civil and human rights are worth..
The act and aftermath are horrible.
The multiple discussions..nationally placing some for or blame or guilt on the victim is truly disgusting...but is now being normalized..
Unchained
Member
 
Posts: 775
Joined: 05 Sep 2016 00:24

Re: Re:

14 Sep 2018 21:01

red_flanders wrote:
aphronesis wrote:Sounds like a conservative agenda to me. No one said there wasn’t any difference between the two. Mostly quantitative. I fail to see what the original remarks had to do with this.


Yes, it's a conservative agenda. Combine that with the criminal and utterly corrupt administration, possible treason, and the utter removal of standards of decency and you have a night and day difference.

But your'e backpedalling quickly. Every comment you've made in the last few pages has been to suggest there isn't a meaningful difference. If not, I struggle to grasp what your beef is with my posts.

Still waiting for solutions from those who are rightly pointing out all the faults with western civilization. Finding problems is easy, banal even. Finding solutions takes hard thought and a problem-solving mind.


Voting democrat is not finding a solution. parroting the agenda is not earth shattering.

back pedaling? produce the post that says what you claim.

your politics are mikquetoast. how’s that? one has to formulate the problems in their totality to formulate solutions.

@rhub, it’s the lesser evil bargain. never gets old apparently.
aphronesis
Veteran
 
Posts: 6,634
Joined: 30 Jul 2011 16:47
Location: Bed-Stuy

14 Sep 2018 21:06

Lesser evil? How about comprehension, objective analysis, destructive catharsis? Bullshit!
User avatar rhubroma
Veteran
 
Posts: 7,648
Joined: 02 Apr 2009 14:31

14 Sep 2018 21:24

I don’t post here enough for you to know my politics. You ask nothing and assume. I find it...well i don’t find it smart.
User avatar red_flanders
Veteran
 
Posts: 6,081
Joined: 03 Apr 2009 06:45

14 Sep 2018 22:26

Any discussion about political party may ultimately help in the long run..being a member of a party may get more people to participate in the process and that is good for all..
Safety..getting shot in school.getting treatment for medical problems,education...none of that has schit. to do with political affiliation..if sending kids to good schools is liberal..sign me up..if children and old people not dying or being disabled for life because of the inability to get minor health care procedures and inexpensive medicine makes me left...less than conservative..so be it..
If me not wanting your daughter,wife,girlfriend,mother..not to be grabbed by the breast or buttocks makes me in-American. Fvck you..
Also I think the conservative movement should back off 1 or 2 steps on sex..of all kinds..the idea that a person serving pancakes or a cup of coffee can tell that there patrons have sex together, what kind of sex they enjoy and that during taking the order for breakfast that the conservative server disapproves...that is a lie much...sure stereotypes save time but can also be dangerous..if someone speaks while ordering bake goods and you conclude that they are homosexual....you need help..and if being Republican means you have supernatural gaydar.power ..no thanks
Unchained
Member
 
Posts: 775
Joined: 05 Sep 2016 00:24

Re:

15 Sep 2018 00:55

red_flanders wrote:I don’t post here enough for you to know my politics. You ask nothing and assume. I find it...well i don’t find it smart.


You’ve posted enough over the years. This is hard for you to grasp I know, but I read and write for a living. And teach others to do the same. That involves sifting through what people say and don’t say. You’re really not that recondite, and the preciosity is boring.
Last edited by aphronesis on 15 Sep 2018 02:19, edited 1 time in total.
aphronesis
Veteran
 
Posts: 6,634
Joined: 30 Jul 2011 16:47
Location: Bed-Stuy

15 Sep 2018 01:56

I have moved into my new place in Imperial Beach California...the sign as you enter town says America's most western city and w most southern in California..it's a nice place..I surfed the pier on Wednesday...chest high w occasional overhead..water is still pretty warm..besides being old,out of shape and marginal surfer I had fun and my asz handed to me at the same time..
Driving back into Mexico weekly I have noticed many subtle changes at the Tijuana - San Diego border..first there is a massive overhaul going on...100's of millions of dollars...US construction crews constantly kick buttt..I don't know what the completion date is but it can't come fast enough...the border crossing is ultra busy...as you leave TJ and avoid the city to get to the toll road you travel a road called Blvd International...it parallels Border Field State Park...
The last months I noticed lots of activity. Today I got a clear look at new @30ft high steel beam fence being installed..also crews using earth movers have graded a @100-200+ ft flat earth between the fence being repaired - replaced and the existing fence which is also @30+ feet high..the new minor changes look to give border patrol agents a much better field of view and create a wider buffer from the almost falling down,filled with holes fence that is @30ft from Mexican territory. The old fence looks to be made of old metal junk, often with big trees,graffiti and homeless people and drug addicted sprinkling along the 2-3 mile section.This repair looked to be needed for a long time..
Maybe not all of it...Trump is building his wall.
You can maybe Google the park and see the natural beauty..w the ocean and bird sanctuary....also maybe the bull ring in Playas Tijuana..
Unchained
Member
 
Posts: 775
Joined: 05 Sep 2016 00:24

16 Sep 2018 00:29

aphronesis
Veteran
 
Posts: 6,634
Joined: 30 Jul 2011 16:47
Location: Bed-Stuy

Re:

16 Sep 2018 01:45

aphronesis wrote:https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/09/14/obamas-imperial-presidency/

It's like the writer completely ignores style points. Woodrow Wilson did those things not Trump or Obama..although both probably wanted to invade a country or two...Obama did many of same things Trump is doing..avoiding the American process and abusing the executive order was Obama's hallmark move...deporting people was his specialty...and he didn't do it without breaking up families..nope..the biggest difference between the two is Trump is dumb and filled with hate..Obama was full of something also...not love either.Trump is so pretend full of himself but if there is a flaw..a difference in the two that will make a historical point...it's Trumps insecurity and pettiness.style counts
Unchained
Member
 
Posts: 775
Joined: 05 Sep 2016 00:24

Re: U.S. Politics

16 Sep 2018 13:55

Infantile, ignorant, clueless..narcisist, arrogant, self centered..an idiot, needs to go.

https://www.wired.com/story/internet-week-187/
User avatar Bustedknuckle
Veteran
 
Posts: 5,067
Joined: 23 Jul 2009 15:38
Location: USofA

16 Sep 2018 15:16

https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/your-child-your-choice-how-the-united-states-made-parenting-impossible/

@unchained, I find Trump far more tolerable than Obama. His game is obvious even if his moves aren’t. Obama peddled lots of lies to many people and they still act as if he’s saintly.
aphronesis
Veteran
 
Posts: 6,634
Joined: 30 Jul 2011 16:47
Location: Bed-Stuy

Re: Re:

16 Sep 2018 16:41

aphronesis wrote:
red_flanders wrote:I don’t post here enough for you to know my politics. You ask nothing and assume. I find it...well i don’t find it smart.


You’ve posted enough over the years. This is hard for you to grasp I know, but I read and write for a living. And teach others to do the same. That involves sifting through what people say and don’t say. You’re really not that recondite, and the preciosity is boring.


The fact that you repeatedly mischarcterize my positions makes this rather confusing. But then I realize it’s intentional. But it does take rather a bit more intelligence to criticize more nuanced views, so no shocker. Not un-Trump like in its infantile nature.
User avatar red_flanders
Veteran
 
Posts: 6,081
Joined: 03 Apr 2009 06:45

PreviousNext

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Robert5091 and 9 guests

Back to top