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08 Mar 2012 04:06

Scott SoCal wrote:They were both incumbents.

Who's baiting who here?:rolleyes:



Right.


so they were. the point here? a snide one? or far reaching?
aphronesis
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08 Mar 2012 04:10

aphronesis wrote:so they were. the point here? a snide one? or far reaching?


The point here is your trolling.

You claim to want to discuss issues yet you are caught up in crap.

Try and stay on track lest you give yourself away.

It is simple, really. Stay OT.
Scott SoCal
 

08 Mar 2012 04:12

BroDeal wrote: He is a weak candidate.


Please explain how the sitting prez is anything other than weak also.

Two weak candidates going Mano y Mano. How very American.
Scott SoCal
 

08 Mar 2012 04:13

BroDeal wrote:I would argue that first he needs a good turnout from the Republican base to win, and he cannot get the base excited. In fact, his positions and flip flopping turns a lot of the base off. Second, he needs to present a difference between himself and Obama. Going by Romney's record, he is not any different than Obama. Going by what he has said in the primaries, he is a conservative. So moderates are left with someone who either is no different than the sitting president or someone who panders to the conservative extremists. The bottom line there is that he will be defined by the opposition using his own words against him. Third, he needs to present a big idea for why he should be president. Even his Republican supporters cannot come up with anything other than he can win or he has the best organization and most money. That won't work in the general election. Fourth, he needs charisma and he has not got any. If he cannot instill passion in his own followers then he is boned in the general. He is a weak candidate.


it's like the year kerry ran.
aphronesis
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08 Mar 2012 04:16

Scott SoCal wrote:Please explain how the sitting prez is anything other than weak also.

Two weak candidates going Mano y Mano. How very American.


cause that's how it's going to devolve from here.
aphronesis
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08 Mar 2012 04:16

BroDeal wrote:I would argue that first he needs a good turnout from the Republican base to win, and he cannot get the base excited. In fact, his positions and flip flopping turns a lot of the base off. Second, he needs to present a difference between himself and Obama. Going by Romney's record, he is not any different than Obama. Going by what he has said in the primaries, he is a conservative. So moderates are left with someone who either is no different than the sitting president or someone who panders to the conservative extremists. The bottom line there is that he will be defined by the opposition using his own words against him. Third, he needs to present a big idea for why he should be president. Even his Republican supporters cannot come up with anything other than he can win or he has the best organization and most money. That won't work in the general election. Fourth, he needs charisma and he has not got any. If he cannot instill passion in his own followers then he is boned in the general. He is a weak candidate.


I was trying to say this in post 2011 upthread.
something less offensive
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08 Mar 2012 04:33

Scott SoCal wrote:Please explain how the sitting prez is anything other than weak also.


He is the sitting president. That alone is worth a lot in American politics. If Romney goes back to the center then the electorate is presented with two near identical candiates. The voters won't change horses. Finally, Obama is much more charismatic than Romney the Robot, and U.S. presidential elections are almost always about personalities rather than issues.

Obama may not be strong, but he is stronger than Romney.
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08 Mar 2012 04:43

BroDeal wrote:He is the sitting president. That alone is worth a lot in American politics. If Romney goes back to the center then the electorate is presented with two near identical candiates. The voters won't change horses. Finally, Obama is much more charismatic than Romney the Robot, and U.S. presidential elections are almost always about personalities rather than issues.

Obama may not be strong, but he is stronger than Romney.


Ok.

Elucidate what Obama runs on.

His record? Really dude?

Lay it on me. I effing can't wait to see what you come up with.
Scott SoCal
 

08 Mar 2012 05:06

Scott SoCal wrote:Ok.

Elucidate what Obama runs on.

His record? Really dude?

Lay it on me. I effing can't wait to see what you come up with.


What is Romney going to run on. He has disavowed everything he did in Taxachusetts. Maybe the slogan "Let America Go Bankrupt" will do the trick.

Just like in boxing, the contender has to take the belt off the champion. He doesn't get a gift when the fight goes to a decision.

Obama will do the ol' shuck and jive by telling a feel good story about how we have overcome adversity but still have a way to go. He'll point to the jobs he saved at GM. Plus he can say that he only got us involved in one new war, and that one was short and cheap. :) Meanwhile his attack dogs will be tearing Romney up and decrying Republican obstructionism.
"Listen, my son. Trust no one! You can count on no one but yourself. Improve your skills, son. Harden your body. Become a number one man. Do not ever let anyone beat you!" -- Gekitotsu! Satsujin ken
User avatar BroDeal
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08 Mar 2012 05:12

Go back a few pages, we beat that horse pretty good as who who's going to run on what.

aphronesis wrote:it's like the year kerry ran.

Which is what this reminds me of. However, Kerry did have his military record. But when the Swift Boat Vets showed up, instead of taking them on and showing his strength, he came off like he didn't have to respond - the snobby elitist his (other) critics were saying he was.

Romney may not need (or get) the machine to successfully smear Obama, but he's going to have to come up with something more tangible than what he's doing now. Because as is, he comes off like the suit that's about to downsize you just before he collects his golden parachute.

I do agree with Scott on one thing though, if somehow Romney can turn into a candidate with a clear appealing plan and strong message, and manages to turn his personality switch on, Obama's fairly miserable three years could be ripe for picking. I just haven't see it in Romney, at all really. Or any of the Republican candidates. The most personable have been, believe it or not, Newt and Cain (and Sarah). But they didn't have the goods.

Some batch of choices.

All of this goes back to what I said some time ago. I think Romney will get he nomination, and lose a close election to Obama with a very low turnout. But I do think Congress will get heavily tossed (both parties).
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08 Mar 2012 05:16

BroDeal wrote:What is Romney going to run on. He has disavowed everything he did in Taxachusetts. Maybe the slogan "Let America Go Bankrupt" will do the trick.

Just like in boxing, the contender has to take the belt off the champion. He doesn't get a gift when the fight goes to a decision.

Obama will do the ol' shuck and jive by telling a feel good story about how we have overcome adversity but still have a way to go. He'll point to the jobs he saved at GM. Plus he can say that he only got us involved in one new war, and that one was short and cheap. :) Meanwhile his attack dogs will be tearing Romney up and decrying Republican obstructionism.



You, like so many others, can not say what BO, the incumbent Prez runs on.

Yet you say his opponent (whomever) is a weak candidate.

If the R can shape the debate to be a referendum on Obama's record... He's toast and you know it.

There has not been this weak an incumbent prez since Jimmy Carter.
Scott SoCal
 

08 Mar 2012 05:51

Scott SoCal wrote:You, like so many others, can not say what BO, the incumbent Prez runs on.

Yet you say his opponent (whomever) is a weak candidate.

If the R can shape the debate to be a referendum on Obama's record... He's toast and you know it.

There has not been this weak an incumbent prez since Jimmy Carter.


Broken record for months now!

What's he going to run on what's he going to run on what's he going to run on what's he going to run on what's he going to run on


Image

If I were him I'd just keep it logical and grounded in reality. For me and a lot of moderately left people, his ability to actually reason through debates & discussions and not get way the **** out there with over the top BS wins my vote. One of the many problems with the current R party is that it's a complete mockery of reality and consistency. Big gov'ts bad, but we need to start a bunch of wars and we need to subsidized any highest bidding corporate interest. Freedom is good, except when it come to religion, sex, or really anything at all that is different than our fat bloated white bread values. We support hard working blue collar middle class folk, except when it comes to tax structure, social safety nets, or really anything at all.

It's laughable to think that slick Mitt can energize either the far right social conservatives or blue collar types. He completely lacks the Bush "hell ya I'll buy you a beer" type of charisma. He's a yacht owing country club type who appeals only to other yacht owning hedge fund manipulators.

I will enjoy quoting all of Scott's prophetic election predictions later this year. You have to admire the consistency of Republican confidence if nothing else.
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08 Mar 2012 06:02

Mitt Romney's Latest 1% Blunder: He Knows Nascar Owners

I don't know if you guys saw this but to me it really sums up the POV of slick Mitt.
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User avatar Rip:30
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08 Mar 2012 12:30

Alpe d'Huez wrote:Go back a few pages, we beat that horse pretty good as who who's going to run on what.


Which is what this reminds me of. However, Kerry did have his military record. But when the Swift Boat Vets showed up, instead of taking them on and showing his strength, he came off like he didn't have to respond - the snobby elitist his (other) critics were saying he was.

Romney may not need (or get) the machine to successfully smear Obama, but he's going to have to come up with something more tangible than what he's doing now. Because as is, he comes off like the suit that's about to downsize you just before he collects his golden parachute.

I do agree with Scott on one thing though, if somehow Romney can turn into a candidate with a clear appealing plan and strong message, and manages to turn his personality switch on, Obama's fairly miserable three years could be ripe for picking. I just haven't see it in Romney, at all really. Or any of the Republican candidates. The most personable have been, believe it or not, Newt and Cain (and Sarah). But they didn't have the goods.

Some batch of choices.

All of this goes back to what I said some time ago. I think Romney will get he nomination, and lose a close election to Obama with a very low turnout. But I do think Congress will get heavily tossed (both parties).


Right. People turned out to vote against McCain for example because the preceding years had been unacceptable. And the unhinged continuation of that was too much to entertain. People won't turn out just to vote against a weak record.
aphronesis
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08 Mar 2012 14:08

Rip:30 wrote:Broken record for months now!

What's he going to run on what's he going to run on what's he going to run on what's he going to run on what's he going to run on


Image

If I were him I'd just keep it logical and grounded in reality. For me and a lot of moderately left people, his ability to actually reason through debates & discussions and not get way the **** out there with over the top BS wins my vote. One of the many problems with the current R party is that it's a complete mockery of reality and consistency. Big gov'ts bad, but we need to start a bunch of wars and we need to subsidized any highest bidding corporate interest. Freedom is good, except when it come to religion, sex, or really anything at all that is different than our fat bloated white bread values. We support hard working blue collar middle class folk, except when it comes to tax structure, social safety nets, or really anything at all.

It's laughable to think that slick Mitt can energize either the far right social conservatives or blue collar types. He completely lacks the Bush "hell ya I'll buy you a beer" type of charisma. He's a yacht owing country club type who appeals only to other yacht owning hedge fund manipulators.

I will enjoy quoting all of Scott's prophetic election predictions later this year. You have to admire the consistency of Republican confidence if nothing else.


Your poster is cute. Too bad it's not real accurate.

Just as an example, GM stock that the tax payer owns is underwater by around $30 Billion. GM shares closed yesterday at $24.88 per share. The taxpayer will need to get $53 per share to break even.

Deficit reduction? Not so much. In fact this prez commissioned a blue ribbon commission and then totally ignored their recommendations. Remember Simpson-Bowles? I bet Romney does.

Saved the US auto industry? Well, no. Ford did not take a nickel of bail out money. How are they doing?

He did get Bin Laden. So there's that.

I will enjoy quoting all of Scott's prophetic election predictions later this year


I will enjoy this too.
Scott SoCal
 

08 Mar 2012 14:19

Rip:30 wrote:
If I were him I'd just keep it logical and grounded in reality. For me and a lot of moderately left people, his ability to actually reason through debates & discussions and not get way the **** out there with over the top BS wins my vote.


What President does "get in the **** out there with over the top BS"?


All presidents know that the best tactic is to just keep to yourself and let whats going out there stay out there. Doint it any other way will even be seen as unpresidentiai.

As for Obama reasoning through debates? This is the guy who run on cheap slogans - "yes we can" and "change we can believe in" bla bla bla. . There was no reason in his campaign, just vague promises.
Shame to see people still think he represents a new level of politics all that.

What was Obamas response when he was asked what Clinton was doing as secretary of state or why guantanmo wasnt shut down. Reason through debate? No. "lets look to the future and not dwell in the past".

Obama is as cheap a politician as any of them. like Romney he cares about 1 thing, being president.
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The Father of Clean Cycling, Christophe Bassons wrote:When I look at cycling today, I get the impression that history is repeating itself: riders who are supposed to be rouleurs are climbing passes at the front of the race, and those who are supposed to be climbers are riding time trials at more than 50 kilometres per hour.

The story is beginning again, just as it did 14 years ago


journalist with integrity.
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08 Mar 2012 16:38

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/march_april_2012/features/the_incomplete_greatness_of_ba035754.php?page=1

He’s gotten more done in three years than any president in decades. Too bad the American public still thinks he hasn’t accomplished anything...In short, when judging Obama’s record so far, conservatives measure him against their fears, liberals against their hopes, and the rest of us against our pocketbooks. But if you measure Obama against other presidents—arguably the more relevant yardstick—a couple of things come to light. Speaking again in terms of sheer tonnage, Obama has gotten more done than any president since LBJ. But the effects of some of those achievements have yet to be felt by most Americans, often by design. Here, too, Obama is in good historical company.


Exactly. It's a shame so many people either don't get this or - hey scott - refuse to even acknowledge the possibility. But it's true.
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08 Mar 2012 16:55

VeloCity wrote:http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/march_april_2012/features/the_incomplete_greatness_of_ba035754.php?page=1



Exactly. It's a shame so many people either don't get this or - hey scott - refuse to even acknowledge the possibility. But it's true.


Written by Paul Glastris, speechwriter for Bill Clinton. Not much bias there right?
slowoldman
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08 Mar 2012 16:57

slowoldman wrote:Written by Paul Glastris, speechwriter for Bill Clinton. Not much bias there right?
Maybe you should actually read the article.
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08 Mar 2012 17:06

VeloCity wrote:Maybe you should actually read the article.


I did.........
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