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09 Nov 2012 17:57

Alpe d'Huez wrote:I could turn this thread into a US politics and the General into a "Global Politics". But I don't know that's a compelling point. This is essentially a global forum, and over the last year topics have spilled over between both threads anyway.

Any other ideas?
Could just close this thread for now, keep the General Politics open, and then resurrect a US Election thread when we get closer to the midterms in 2014, at which time talk about the 2016 primaries will probably start to heat up.
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09 Nov 2012 18:20

patricknd wrote:come on glenn, both the cubans he met were less radical. rube wouldn't make up anything.


Of course I don't make things up. I've been to Cuba. In Rome I have had many dealings with Cubans from the States on vacations, all of whom are the most fervent republican ideologues. I don't blame them for this and understand that it's quite natural for them to see the US as salvific, its anti-communist milieu as "the good" vs. Castro's regime socialism as "the bad." However, it is precisely their background that prohibits them from being objective.

Whereas the Italians who have taken for themselves Cuban wives are of course not colored by faith in US exceptionalism, though of course why would they?

Glenn can spew off that the sky is purple with green polka dots and that Santa Clause exists, that's fine; but when he says things like "you don't know what you’re talking about," he is speaking with about as much authority as the rest of his inane comments on this forum: that is zero.

Cuban Americans will always vote republican.
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09 Nov 2012 18:50

VeloCity wrote:This Welch Allyn?

They're restructuring, Scott. 45 layoffs. Sounds like they're doing pretty good.

This Boston Scientific?

Hmm. Does sound as though they're going under and apparently they've decided to take BridgePoint down with them.

This Cook Medical?

So I guess they've decided to layoff billions and billions of workers to afford to build this new manufacturing plant just before they go under.

http://www.mpo-mag.com/articles/2012/10/top-of-the-news. You should probably read the whole thing. Sounds like they're all doing quite well.


You should also read this:
http://keller.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/07/18/more-myths-of-obamacare/



But let me guess: you got all that from an article like this one, right?

http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/watercooler/2012/nov/8/picket-companies-plan-massive-layoffs-obamacare-be/

Uh. Huh.

Oh and this Alan Zafran?

https://www.luminouscap.com/default.asp?P=826460



Shocking that he thinks the ACA will be bad for business. Just shocking.


This Welch Allyn;

Portland Business Journal by Erik Siemers , Business Journal staff writer

CEO Steve Meyer;

Welch Allyn is cutting 10 percent of its 2,750-person global workforce as part of a restructuring Meyer said is necessitated by the federal Affordable Care Act.

The legislation — signed into law in March and upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court in June — includes a 2.3 percent excise tax on total revenues of medical device companies that goes into effect next year.

“If you do the math on that, you have to realize it’s a regressive tax that starts on revenues, but when applied to the bottom line the impact is pretty substantial,” Meyer said.

Meyer, for example, said that for a business with $100 million in sales and $10 million in profit, a 2.3 percent tax on sales equals $2.3 million.

“That represents a 23 percent tax on your income,” Meyer said. “Those are the kinds of orders of magnitude we’re dealing with in terms of the numbers.”


Boston Scientific is "restructuring" too, wonder why?

Boston Scientific will eliminate 1,400 jobs companywide by the end of 2013.

http://www.twincities.com/business/ci_21742006/boston-scientific-cutting-jobs-twin-cities

This Cook Medical;

Cook Medical Inc. had been planning to open five new manufacturing plants over the next five years in small communities around the Midwest, including Indiana, but has shelved those plans because of the hit it will take from a new U.S. tax on medical devices.

The Bloomington-based medical device maker estimates it will pay between $20 million and $30 million once the tax takes effect in January, Pete Yonkman, executive vice president of strategic business units at Cook Medical, said this week.


http://www.ibj.com/cook-medical-shelves-midwest-expansion-plans/PARAMS/article/35735



This may be the best point you have ever made;

Alan has served as a financial adviser to wealthy families and institutional investors for the past 22 years.

Let me ponder that for a moment..... hmmmmm.

Okay. Wealthy families generally have managed fund accounts with competent financial advisers. Non-Wealthy families and workers invest through mutual funds and retirement accounts (you know, pensions and 401(k)'s)... those are called institutional investors.

So, Alan is a financial adviser for for people and institutional investors that... uh, invest money in the marketplace and seek his advice.

That's just downright criminal.
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09 Nov 2012 19:23

VeloCity wrote:Could just close this thread for now, keep the General Politics open, and then resurrect a US Election thread when we get closer to the midterms in 2014, at which time talk about the 2016 primaries will probably start to heat up.


This is one possibility....I'd already thought of starting a 2014 topic when Bala mentioned that the next campaign had already begun, but that would be a bit premature.;)

For obvious reasons, recent political talk in the cafe has focused on the US election. I believe there is still plenty of talking to do that is specifically US related. I would suggest re-naming this topic to 'US' politics while retaining the old one for expected crises in Oz, the UK and elsewhere. There's a virtual war in Syria, Greece...loads that will come to the fore now that the election is over. I really think there is a justifiable need to have separate US and global politics discussion topics. Re-naming this one should take it nicely up to 2014, when the next real presidential election topic can be opened.

.02 from Amsterdam.
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09 Nov 2012 19:30

Much mention is given to the Obama-Romney campaign in the Smiley interviews below, so this has a place here:

Oliver Stone, as reported in la Repubblica today, has produced a series on US history from WWII till the present called Oliver Stone's Untold History of the United States. It consists of 10 episodes and will be shown on Showtime beginning on Monday Nov. 12 and narrated by him. Stone wrote it with Peter Kuznick, professor of history and director of the Institute for Nuclear Studies at American University, Washington DC, based on archives of the United States, the Soviet Union, England, Germany and Japan. The series was prompted, in the director's own words, by information he noticed his daughter was given in the school history book written by a noted author and in wide circulation, which is patently wrong and all predicated upon US exceptionalism. This is how US history is taught in America.

Stone is an interesting figure who grew up fervently patriotic in NY believing that the commies were evil and that we were all good, until that is he went to Vietnam and realized that the reality was rather different and much more nuanced. He has spent his entire career trying to deconstruct the official versions of US history, at the expense of becoming an undesirable in the conventional Hollywood sphere and has been attacked politically as a result.

At any rate it would seem to be in the style of the late Prof. Howard Zinn, who as professor of US history at the U. of Boston wrote a seminal, if not widely read, A People's History of the United States and A People's History of American Empire. Both are excellent works and tell history as it should be told, though rarely is: that is from the losers side and not the winners.

Stone's initiative should be a noteworthy production, which no doubt will be shadowed by controversy by the mainstream outlets, which is all the more why it would probably be something you’d want to see.

For more information (the Travis Smiley interviews are particularly interesting, which although naive in regards to states like Russia and China are nonetheless about time for Americans to hear):

http://www.sho.com/sho/oliver-stones-untold-history-of-the-united-states/home

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/tavissmiley/interviews/oliver-stone-peter-kuznick/?show=15810

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/tavissmiley/interviews/oliver-stone-peter-kuznick-part-2/
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09 Nov 2012 20:06

Scott SoCal wrote:This Welch Allyn;



Boston Scientific is "restructuring" too, wonder why?

Boston Scientific will eliminate 1,400 jobs companywide by the end of 2013.

http://www.twincities.com/business/ci_21742006/boston-scientific-cutting-jobs-twin-cities

This Cook Medical;



http://www.ibj.com/cook-medical-shelves-midwest-expansion-plans/PARAMS/article/35735

http://www.tnr.com/blog/plank/104791/gruber-care-act-job-killing

But what about the financing—and all those “job-killing taxes”? The law does indeed apply new taxes, primarily on three sources. The first is on parts of the health care industry—medical devices, pharmaceuticals, and insurance. But these taxes are effectively asking those sectors to “kick back” some of the revenue increases that the law will provide, by creating so many new paying customers. On net, these sectors are major winners from health care reform.


This may be the best point you have ever made;


Let me ponder that for a moment..... hmmmmm.

Okay. Wealthy families generally have managed fund accounts with competent financial advisers. Non-Wealthy families and workers invest through mutual funds and retirement accounts (you know, pensions and 401(k)'s)... those are called institutional investors.

So, Alan is a financial adviser for for people and institutional investors that... uh, invest money in the marketplace and seek his advice.

That's just downright criminal.
Never said it was. I said I'm not in the least bit surprised that a Wall St investment adviser for the wealthy would write something like this:

CEOs recognize an unsustainable ecosystem when they see one. They also distrust the band of undisciplined politicians who will continue to set the tax and regulatory rules under which they must operate.
Uh huh. Are those the same CEO's who make about 100:1 versus their employees even when the company loses a ****load of money? I bet they recognize an "unsustainable ecosystem". The same CEO's who nearly destroyed the banking and financial system that greatly contributed to the recession and then asked the feds to step in to save their asses? I bet they "distrust the band of undisciplined politicians who will continue to set the tax and regulatory rules under which they must operate."

(btw I think I said ACA before in ref to the Zafran article - had it on the brain, meant to say "Obama will be bad for business" instead.)
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09 Nov 2012 20:08

User avatar VeloCity
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09 Nov 2012 20:22

And the first of the names bandied about as possible candidates for 2016 goes down.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/election-2012/wp/2012/11/09/cia-director-david-petraeus-resigns/

EDIT: should mention that he resigned after it became public that he was having an extramarital affair. Probably not the best thing for the head of the CIA to be doing.
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09 Nov 2012 20:22

VeloCity wrote:http://www.tnr.com/blog/plank/104791/gruber-care-act-job-killing



Never said it was. I said I'm not in the least bit surprised that a Wall St investment adviser for the wealthy would write something like this:

Uh huh. Are those the same CEO's who make about 100:1 versus their employees even when the company loses a ****load of money? I bet they recognize an "unsustainable ecosystem". The same CEO's who nearly destroyed the banking and financial system that greatly contributed to the recession and then asked the feds to step in to save their asses? I bet they "distrust the band of undisciplined politicians who will continue to set the tax and regulatory rules under which they must operate."

(btw I think I said ACA before in ref to the Zafran article - had it on the brain, meant to say "Obama will be bad for business" instead.)



I said I'm not in the least bit surprised that a Wall St investment adviser for the wealthy would write something like this:


Wealthy... I suppose it depends on your definition. He consults with many fund managers. Like the Calpers briantrust. All those wealthy cops and firemen.

Uh huh. Are those the same CEO's who make about 100:1 versus their employees even when the company loses a ****load of money? I bet they recognize an "unsustainable ecosystem". The same CEO's who nearly destroyed the banking and financial system that greatly contributed to the recession and then asked the feds to step in to save their asses? I bet they "distrust the band of undisciplined politicians who will continue to set the tax and regulatory rules under which they must operate."


Another fantastic comment. Maybe we should just go ahead and nationalize? Weren't you tooting the GM bailout success horn? Do you know what a small fraction of CEO's took bailout money?

Try again.

Like most in govt now you have not listened to employers and you aren't going to.

Hopefully, you and the feds know best.
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09 Nov 2012 20:52

Glad you're back, Scott. There was something seriously out of balance when Glenn and I are the most conservative people in the conversation, and I'm only posting here maybe once a week (and Glenn is institutionalized). Just don't get too worked up, and know when to take a break.

:)
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09 Nov 2012 21:05

Alpe d'Huez wrote:Glad you're back, Scott. There was something seriously out of balance when Glenn and I are the most conservative people in the conversation, and I'm only posting here maybe once a week (and Glenn is institutionalized). Just don't get too worked up, and know when to take a break.

:)


Naw. I'll be fine. Didn't know Glenn was in the nuthouse. How does he type in a straightjacket? Prolly good dictation software...

I'm starting to think there's inevitability now, particularly if you look at the shift in the electorate. BroDeal hit it...

People should concentrate on effective government because we are never going back to an idealized past where government was small and limited. Society has grown too large for that.


Plus, the national election was never going to fundamentally change things... at least anytime soon. But California... that is a whole different story.
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09 Nov 2012 21:58

Amsterhammer wrote:This is one possibility....I'd already thought of starting a 2014 topic when Bala mentioned that the next campaign had already begun, but that would be a bit premature.;)

For obvious reasons, recent political talk in the cafe has focused on the US election. I believe there is still plenty of talking to do that is specifically US related. I would suggest re-naming this topic to 'US' politics while retaining the old one for expected crises in Oz, the UK and elsewhere. There's a virtual war in Syria, Greece...loads that will come to the fore now that the election is over. I really think there is a justifiable need to have separate US and global politics discussion topics. Re-naming this one should take it nicely up to 2014, when the next real presidential election topic can be opened.

.02 from Amsterdam.


I agree. Rename this one US Politics.
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09 Nov 2012 22:18

VeloCity wrote:And the first of the names bandied about as possible candidates for 2016 goes down.


A foreign policy ticket wont work, not for 2016 anyway, but both petreus and condi are young enough to be able to wait till 2020 or even 24. It wont hurt Petreus though, not in the long run as Mccain and Rudy have managed fine enough with affairs of their own.

Its between christie and Rubio but from what ive seen but Rubio has twice the brain cells of Christie, or any republican in for the running for that matter, is new enough to be able to still "adjust" some views without big repercussions, and will be favored by the establishment due to certain "qualities" he brings to the table.

Petreus and Condi could be well in the running for the veep pick though, especially with someone like Rubio at the head. Or Jeb Bush may be willing to relocate to Wyoming.
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The story is beginning again, just as it did 14 years ago


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09 Nov 2012 22:34

Scott SoCal wrote:Another fantastic comment. Maybe we should just go ahead and nationalize? Weren't you tooting the GM bailout success horn? Do you know what a small fraction of CEO's took bailout money?

Try again.

Like most in govt now you have not listened to employers and you aren't going to.

Hopefully, you and the feds know best.
Because like Zafran says, we need to deregulate and allow CEO's and Wall St the freedom to do what's right and best for the country, which will lead to a soaring economy and prosperity for all and...oh wait, right, that didn't work out so well last time, did it.
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09 Nov 2012 22:38

Well that didn't take long.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/11/09/1159729/-Fox-News-jumps-back-into-the-conspiracy-theory-saddle

Don't you guys on the right ever get tired of the bull**** you're constantly being shoveled?
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09 Nov 2012 22:53

VeloCity wrote:Because like Zafran says, we need to deregulate and allow CEO's and Wall St the freedom to do what's right and best for the country, which will lead to a soaring economy and prosperity for all and...oh wait, right, that didn't work out so well last time, did it.


Well lookey here. The merry-go-round goes in a circle. Who knew?

You know that Clinton was considered somewhat a de-regulatory President? Crazy, huh? Worked pretty well for him. Remember the Financial Service Modernization Act? Yeah... that replaced Glass-Stegall... oops.
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09 Nov 2012 23:02

VeloCity wrote:Well that didn't take long.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/11/09/1159729/-Fox-News-jumps-back-into-the-conspiracy-theory-saddle

Don't you guys on the right ever get tired of the bull**** you're constantly being shoveled?


Yes. We can agree on that.

Just curious tho, how did the MoveOn.org full page ad back in 2007 play with you? You remember, they accused Petraeus of "cooking the books" for the White House. I think the headline was "General Betray-Us."


Image
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09 Nov 2012 23:16

VeloCity wrote:Well that didn't take long.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/11/09/1159729/-Fox-News-jumps-back-into-the-conspiracy-theory-saddle

Don't you guys on the right ever get tired of the bull**** you're constantly being shoveled?


Following on nicely from the above latest from, what Jon Stewart so aptly calls, Bullsh!t Mountain, I offer my final trawl from the depths that wingnut loonies have plunged to in their post-defeat trauma.

(Scott - this is in no way directed at you, I already posted some of these before your return, and I do not consider you to be one of these utter cretins.);)

Posts under a picture of the electoral map, with states appropriately colored red and blue, above which it says - "shared President Mitt Romney 2012's photo."

"It makes no sense. Fire the electorate let the people speak for themselves"

"Republicans need to take over the blue areas on this map I have chosen not to move back to Texas I will stay in Washington state and try to turn it red."

"We should all move to Texas, and then succeed the Union!" (sic)

:If only there's a place we all can move to... that is rich in oil and start a new government, new country, new president....I bet you half of the American people will be there along with all the intelligent ones who knows how to turn this country around. But, we won't take the other half...we will leave there broke because they don't know how the American dream works and follow the constitution....only if"

"If Obama can redistribute wealth, then we should re distribute the country into zones of Americans and zones of Obama Zombies!!!"

"Look at this map, as I've been doing and tell me HOW the non-American won again when he carried so many fewer states than we did??? It's just wrong in every single way!!!!!"

"obama is a weak person. Gays, leftists, liberals, lazy people, muslims, voted for him to use him for their own benefits. Other countries would rather obama win because they don't like America with a strong principle. With this kind of president it's easy for the world. It's too bad..too bad...for America to have missed a very competent person to be president. It's too bad gays, leftists, liberal, lazy people, muslims now outnumber conservative. I am very disappointed. Still can't digest Romney's lost"

"Obama made sure that the Military did not get their ballots to vote and if they would have, Obama would be packing up his junk. I am so glad that I live in a red area and Ann Romney would have been he most Beautiful First Lady we have had. Over the next two weeks, Obama will have to go to Court because of the Impeachment Charges for his Fraudulent activities and stepping over Congress and calling shots to have a small country bombed and so many woman and children died because of him, I hope that he suffers the rest of his life."

The following gem was posted by a Chinese woman.:eek:

"Obama supporters= racist, ignorant, uneducated, evil, wicked, illiterate, immoral, Satan followers. Michelle Obama looks like a big black monkey."

(Not one of the God loving Christians babbling on about God and prayers and decency and values felt moved to call this b itch out of order!)

A final gob from the barf bag -

"Ann Romney is the epitome of what an American woman, mother, wife looks like...could not have represented us better. God bless you Ann and the days ahead....you deserve a fantastic vacation and time with your 18 precious grandchildren. Hug Mitt for us....and hold your head high..you both are Classy Compassionate Americans....God Bless! thanks for all your tireless efforts and sacrifice. You set the stage for 2016, we will get our House back!! Love you!"


And my favorite of the day, in part because it sailed completely over their heads, in part because all his epithets could be found on that page, in part because the poster called himself Blind Lemming Chiffon, which I thought was a pretty cool name.:cool:

"Republicans are treasonous racist terrorist Hitler lovers who hate America and everything it stands for. Please go back to Iran where you came from, you flea-infested ignorant unpatriotic fascists."

Thank you, and good night.;)
The LOTE has won, all hail the LOTE!
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09 Nov 2012 23:29

Amsterhammer wrote:Following on nicely from the above latest from, what Jon Stewart so aptly calls, Bullsh!t Mountain, I offer my final trawl from the depths that wingnut loonies have plunged to in their post-defeat trauma.

(Scott - this is in no way directed at you, I already posted some of these before your return, and I do not consider you to be one of these utter cretins.);)

Posts under a picture of the electoral map, with states appropriately colored red and blue, above which it says - "shared President Mitt Romney 2012's photo."

"It makes no sense. Fire the electorate let the people speak for themselves"

"Republicans need to take over the blue areas on this map I have chosen not to move back to Texas I will stay in Washington state and try to turn it red."

"We should all move to Texas, and then succeed the Union!" (sic)

:If only there's a place we all can move to... that is rich in oil and start a new government, new country, new president....I bet you half of the American people will be there along with all the intelligent ones who knows how to turn this country around. But, we won't take the other half...we will leave there broke because they don't know how the American dream works and follow the constitution....only if"

"If Obama can redistribute wealth, then we should re distribute the country into zones of Americans and zones of Obama Zombies!!!"

"Look at this map, as I've been doing and tell me HOW the non-American won again when he carried so many fewer states than we did??? It's just wrong in every single way!!!!!"

"obama is a weak person. Gays, leftists, liberals, lazy people, muslims, voted for him to use him for their own benefits. Other countries would rather obama win because they don't like America with a strong principle. With this kind of president it's easy for the world. It's too bad..too bad...for America to have missed a very competent person to be president. It's too bad gays, leftists, liberal, lazy people, muslims now outnumber conservative. I am very disappointed. Still can't digest Romney's lost"

"Obama made sure that the Military did not get their ballots to vote and if they would have, Obama would be packing up his junk. I am so glad that I live in a red area and Ann Romney would have been he most Beautiful First Lady we have had. Over the next two weeks, Obama will have to go to Court because of the Impeachment Charges for his Fraudulent activities and stepping over Congress and calling shots to have a small country bombed and so many woman and children died because of him, I hope that he suffers the rest of his life."

The following gem was posted by a Chinese woman.:eek:

"Obama supporters= racist, ignorant, uneducated, evil, wicked, illiterate, immoral, Satan followers. Michelle Obama looks like a big black monkey."

(Not one of the God loving Christians babbling on about God and prayers and decency and values felt moved to call this b itch out of order!)

A final gob from the barf bag -

"Ann Romney is the epitome of what an American woman, mother, wife looks like...could not have represented us better. God bless you Ann and the days ahead....you deserve a fantastic vacation and time with your 18 precious grandchildren. Hug Mitt for us....and hold your head high..you both are Classy Compassionate Americans....God Bless! thanks for all your tireless efforts and sacrifice. You set the stage for 2016, we will get our House back!! Love you!"


And my favorite of the day, in part because it sailed completely over their heads, in part because all his epithets could be found on that page, in part because the poster called himself Blind Lemming Chiffon, which I thought was a pretty cool name.:cool:

"Republicans are treasonous racist terrorist Hitler lovers who hate America and everything it stands for. Please go back to Iran where you came from, you flea-infested ignorant unpatriotic fascists."

Thank you, and good night.


"It makes no sense. Fire the electorate let the people speak for themselves"


I think I might use this one as my signature.:D
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10 Nov 2012 00:10

rhubroma wrote:Much mention is given to the Obama-Romney campaign in the Smiley interviews below, so this has a place here:

Oliver Stone, as reported in la Repubblica today, has produced a series on US history from WWII till the present called Oliver Stone's Untold History of the United States. It consists of 10 episodes and will be shown on Showtime beginning on Monday Nov. 12 and narrated by him.
For more information (the Travis Smiley interviews are particularly interesting, which although naive in regards to states like Russia and China are nonetheless about time for Americans to hear):

http://www.sho.com/sho/oliver-stones-untold-history-of-the-united-states/home

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/tavissmiley/interviews/oliver-stone-peter-kuznick/?show=15810

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/tavissmiley/interviews/oliver-stone-peter-kuznick-part-2/


Thanks for this heads up, Rhub! Excellent interview, and I look forward to the series.
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