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God and Religion

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Do you believe in God?

Yes, I believe in Johnny Hoogerland.
45
14%
Yes, I believe in a supernatural, personal being.
46
15%
I believe in a life force or spirit, but not in a personal being.
31
10%
I don't know. I'm an agnostic.
36
11%
No, I'm an atheist in that, while I can't assure there is no God, I believe there is none.
72
23%
No, I'm an atheist in that I assure there is no God.
84
27%
 
Total votes : 314

God and Religion

24 Oct 2011 07:47

Well, the question of questions: Do you believe in God? If so, in which one? How do you feel about religion?





[Mods, I found a thread that ultimately derived in a discussion about this topic, but it's old and not originally intended as such, so I took the liberty to open this one.]
User avatar Descender
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24 Oct 2011 09:04

OK.

But if the thread runs adrift, or upsets people, I will likely close it.
User avatar Alpe d'Huez
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24 Oct 2011 09:07

Voted the first option because I could if I voted seriously I'd vote for: "No, I'm an atheist in that I assure there is no God. "
User avatar Havetts
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24 Oct 2011 09:15

Alpe d'Huez wrote:OK.

But if the thread runs adrift, or upsets people, I will likely close it.


You might as well close it now, then. People are inevitably going to get upset.

Which brings me to one of my points, which Richard Dawkins so often makes too. Why is religion worthy of so much respect? Why is it ok to bash politicians because of their positions, writers because of their novels, filmmakers because of their films, but it's not ok to criticise religion or their principles?

In this same forum there are dozens of threads on politics. Quite clearly, people get upset there every day. Are those threads closed because of that?

When people get upset on account of religion matters, it is most usually their choice and theirs only to get upset. I say let us have a sensible, constructive debate. Let us be polite in a democratic way. But as long as we do it this way, let us express our views freely too, without fear of upsetting other people's ideals.
User avatar Descender
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24 Oct 2011 09:27

Descender wrote:Do you believe in God?


Yes, I do.

If so, in which one?


I'm a Catholic.

How do you feel about religion?


I dunno, never had any problem with people who thinks otherwise (there's a lot of them among my friends). Everyone has a right to believe whatever he/she wants, and the worst thing you/I can do is trying to prove somebody that everything he/she believes in (no matter is it atheism, agnosticism or any religion) is a bs.
Kvinto
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24 Oct 2011 09:39

I don't believe in anything supernatural, unless I'd happen to see it with my own eyes. Don't like really religious people, though ironically my best friend is very passionate about religion.

I'm still part of the Lutheran church but I'm going to leave the church, just haven't got around it yet. Being baptized because you're parents believe in something is kinda silly.
Nastyy
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24 Oct 2011 09:42

Dont beleive in god. Believe Jesus existed but that Life or Brian is probably the most factual record of his life.

Opposed to religion in most forms. Preaches hate and intolerance, teaches people that being Homesexual is wrong, that being different is wrong, that people of different beliefs or religion to you is wrong. Religion is responsible for so many wars and deaths from the Crusades to the west battles against Islam.

Most Christians i have encountered are the most intolerant and unchristian people I have ever met.

However, I understand that for some people faith is important, and if they wish to have faith then it is none of my business. If it makes them happy then good luck to them, as long as they use it to live lives of peace, tollerance and kindness.
TeamSkyFans
 

24 Oct 2011 09:46

Kvinto wrote:Yes, I do.



I'm a Catholic.



I dunno, never had any problem with people who thinks otherwise (there's a lot of them among my friends). Everyone has a right to believe whatever he/she wants, and the worst thing you/I can do is trying to prove somebody that everything he/she believes in (no matter is it atheism, agnosticism or any religion) is a bs.


Why is that?
User avatar Descender
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24 Oct 2011 09:49

Because people are entitled to have their own opinion and beliefs, I don't like it when Jehova's Witnesses are at the door trying to (with all respect) shove their opinion down my throat. I imagine its the same for Catholics being harassed by atheists cause they believe in God.
User avatar Havetts
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24 Oct 2011 09:56

Havetts wrote:Because people are entitled to have their own opinion and beliefs, I don't like it when Jehova's Witnesses are at the door trying to (with all respect) shove their opinion down my throat. I imagine its the same for Catholics being harassed by atheists cause they believe in God.


There is a big difference between harassing things down someone's throat and trying to have an amicable discussion.

We bump into another common misconception of the modern world. The right to something has nothing to do with the exercise of that right. Of course people are entitled to their own opinions and beliefs. But that doesn't make them a bit more (or less) true. I am not questioning the right to religion, I am questioning the exercise that is made of that right by believers.
User avatar Descender
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24 Oct 2011 10:04

TeamSkyFans wrote:Dont beleive in god. Believe Jesus existed but that Life or Brian is probably the most factual record of his life.

Opposed to religion in most forms. Preaches hate and intolerance, teaches people that being Homesexual is wrong, that being different is wrong, that people of different beliefs or religion to you is wrong. Religion is responsible for so many wars and deaths from the Crusades to the west battles against Islam.

Most Christians i have encountered are the most intolerant and unchristian people I have ever met.

However, I understand that for some people faith is important, and if they wish to have faith then it is none of my business. If it makes them happy then good luck to them, as long as they use it to live lives of peace, tollerance and kindness.


Some of these statements show ignorance on your behalf. While I do not agree with all principles of Religion, saying it preaches hate and intolerance is a very narrow minded comment. If you actually understood what some of what religion teaches then you may realise that is not necessarily the case.

Yes many wars have been caused by Religious hate, but many wars have also been due to power, money and politics which religious and non religious people have been behind.

This may sound a little wacky but sometimes I do believe there is a God and sometimes I do find it hard. I am a little confused in that way.
diggercuz wrote:second post ever after reading the forum for the last few years and one thing i must say, ACF94 is probably the most intelligent poster here, never biased to BMC or Cadel, and never gets worked up over anything.
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24 Oct 2011 10:05

Descender wrote:Why is that?


I don't like talks about religion, and wouldn't like to hear from somebody how wrong are my thoughts (because it can insult quite often, though not everytime), in the end everyone does what he/she believes is right and for me it's more important than whether is he/she religious or not.
Kvinto
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24 Oct 2011 10:13

I am not religious but have nothing against religion per se.

I will keep this as generic as possible considering this has been a very sensitive issue here in the near past. Religion has shaped society in every form, both good and bad. In the east, science and spirituality have had a very harmonious existence which led to a very highly evolved and sophisticated society (Anu, Paramanu were part of the vedas but were just as scientific in that era and even the dates we use are intertwined with religion).

On the other hand, when religion has closed its mind into a narrow line of thinking, only harm is done. There are hundreds of examples of this which can be researched very easily on the net.

Descender wrote:There is a big difference between harassing things down someone's throat and trying to have an amicable discussion.

We bump into another common misconception of the modern world. The right to something has nothing to do with the exercise of that right. Of course people are entitled to their own opinions and beliefs. But that doesn't make them a bit more (or less) true. I am not questioning the right to religion, I am questioning the exercise that is made of that right by believers.


I would never mind having a good constructive discussion with anyone, whether the person agrees with me or not but Kvinto posted that he doesn't like to prove to somebody that their beliefs are 'bs' and that's the line that nobody should cross.

I would've voted for Hoogerland, but Havetts already did.
ramjambunath
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24 Oct 2011 10:14

I am an athoogerland in that I can assure you there is no Johnny Hoogerland.
Thoughtforfood
 

24 Oct 2011 10:14

Kvinto wrote:I don't like talks about religion, and wouldn't like to hear from somebody how wrong are my thoughts (because it can insult quite often, though not everytime), in the end everyone does what he/she believes is right and for me it's more important than whether is he/she religious or not.


Wouldn't you say that such view is narrow-minded, stubborn and intolerant? Note I am not calling you anything, merely trying to understand your point of view.

If a friend of yours had cancer, and he thought that chewing mint leaves was all he needed to be cured, wouldn't you try and convince your friend that he is wrong and that the consequences of his actions, if he carries them through, would be undesirable?
User avatar Descender
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24 Oct 2011 10:17

ramjambunath wrote:I am not religious but have nothing against religion per se.

I will keep this as generic as possible considering this has been a very sensitive issue here in the near past. Religion has shaped society in every form, both good and bad. In the east, science and spirituality have had a very harmonious existence which led to a very highly evolved and sophisticated society (Anu, Paramanu were part of the vedas but were just as scientific in that era and even the dates we use are intertwined with religion).

On the other hand, when religion has closed its mind into a narrow line of thinking, only harm is done. There are hundreds of examples of this which can be researched very easily on the net.



I would never mind having a good constructive discussion with anyone, whether the person agrees with me or not but Kvinto posted that he doesn't like to prove to somebody that their beliefs are 'bs' and that's the line that nobody should cross.

I would've voted for Hoogerland, but Havetts already did.


Is that your view too, or are you only quoting Kvinto?

Like I said, just as others claim to have the right to have a belief, I claim to have the right to say that that belief is bs.
User avatar Descender
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24 Oct 2011 10:21

Descender wrote:Is that your view too, or are you only quoting Kvinto?

Like I said, just as others claim to have the right to have a belief, I claim to have the right to say that that belief is bs.


And I have the right to say that no belief is bs, and round and round we go, swing your partner to an fro, now dossey doe...:rolleyes:
Thoughtforfood
 

24 Oct 2011 10:27

auscyclefan94 wrote:Some of these statements show ignorance on your behalf.


Not ignorance, but perhaps I could have elaborated further but I chose to avoid being overly inflammatory.

Fwiw I have read the entire bible, the book of Mormon and am working my way through the Koran.

Obviously my thoughts were not meant to be taken as sweeping statements, that would be me acting like many so called christians act. There are a large proportion of religious people who beleive in peace, love and understanding, but there are also a large percentage who believe that for instance, man should not lie with man and if you do so you will be judged by god and cast into eternal damnation, just as they beleive that HIV was a plague sent by god to punish the sinners.

Yes, not all wars are started by religion, in some occasions religion is merely used as an excuse and if it did not exist man would find other reasons to go to war, but much intollerance in mankinds history, from the crusades, to the burning of witches, to the hanging and beheaded of many thousands of people in the 1600's was in the name of religion.

FWIW i beleive that probably the most tolerant and peaceful religion is Hinduism closely followed by Islam. But of course, many christians beleive that Muslims are all heathen extremist terrorists..

I give this thread two pages before its closed.
TeamSkyFans
 

24 Oct 2011 10:31

Descender wrote:Is that your view too, or are you only quoting Kvinto?

Like I said, just as others claim to have the right to have a belief, I claim to have the right to say that that belief is bs.


The first part of the bold was quoting Kvinto. The part about that being the line not to be crossed was my belief. I don't mind anyone stating his case, and strongly too, but I won't want him to criticise me just because I hold an opposite view. The same applies to myself when trying put my case forward.

I'd like to think of it as respect to someone who doesn't share your views.
ramjambunath
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24 Oct 2011 10:33

Descender wrote:Wouldn't you say that such view is narrow-minded, stubborn and intolerant? Note I am not calling you anything, merely trying to understand your point of view.

If a friend of yours had cancer, and he thought that chewing mint leaves was all he needed to be cured, wouldn't you try and convince your friend that he is wrong and that the consequences of his actions, if he carries them through, would be undesirable?


I use that point of view only to religious stuff: the main point for me is not to insult and not to be insulted, but denying somebody's religious beliefs is a straight way to do this. And i hope there is no religion that says that chewing mint leaves can help with a cancer because i disagree :)
I think i understand what you are talking about. There will always be things acceptable and things unacceptable. For me proving wrong in the case of mint leaves/cancer is acceptable but "You are fool because you believe in God" is unacceptable.

ramjambunath wrote:I am not religious but have nothing against religion per se.

I will keep this as generic as possible considering this has been a very sensitive issue here in the near past. Religion has shaped society in every form, both good and bad. In the east, science and spirituality have had a very harmonious existence which led to a very highly evolved and sophisticated society (Anu, Paramanu were part of the vedas but were just as scientific in that era and even the dates we use are intertwined with religion).

On the other hand, when religion has closed its mind into a narrow line of thinking, only harm is done. There are hundreds of examples of this which can be researched very easily on the net.



fully agree
Kvinto
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