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What about a "chase race" in cycling?

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What about a "chase race" in cycling?

25 Jan 2012 09:09

Often people complain that especially GTs are always the same and there's nothing new and no excitment.
So why not leave the old pattern that there are only TTs and normal stages in GTs? I think a chase race could be very entertaining and dramatic if it's done the right why.
So my idea is that the last stage of a GT will be a chase race. The guy who leads the classement will start first, and everyone else according to the time gap in the GC. Just like in xc skiing. This would mean, that the first guy who crosses the finish line is actually the winner of the Tour, the second is second, and so on.
In my eyes this could be very dramatic and interesting. Of course slip streaming would not be allowed, except for the final km. On the road there would be rules like in ironman, so that slipstreaing would not be a huge factor.
But of course seeing your opponents in front of you would still be a benift, but that's the way it is, and i am sure there would be epic battles.
I think a reasonable length for such a race would be 90-100km.
I think this would ad some new flavor to the GTs. It would also be a bit of a reminder of the past of the Tour. After all, riding alone for huge distances was how the tour looked in It's early days.
Your thoughts on this?
User avatar Bavarianrider
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25 Jan 2012 09:17

The talk of a pursuit has been mooted on the forums a few times.

For a GT, I think it would never work; the start would be great, with the battle for the win, but you'd then have rouleur domestiques and sprinters starting hours after the main contenders had finished, battling over the right to finish 160th and it would hold no interest whatsoever except for the trackstands by those competing for the lanterne rouge. It would also require the roads be closed for a similar amount of time as a time trial, if not more, but instead of the crowds getting bigger as time goes by, they could watch the leaders then call it a day and go home while the likes of Bert Grabsch and Aleksandr Kuschynski are still waiting to start.

In a short stage race, I think it could make a great addition - a race like the TDU, where the last rider was 47 minutes down coming into the final stage, would be ideal for this, as you wouldn't have such a long period of downtime at the end. The course would perhaps need to be slightly hilly, so it's not just a power test and effectively a 90km flat time trial; make it so that the riders actually believe they can pick up a lead and defend it in the race, rather than being sitting ducks to Martin and Cancellara.

Patterned after Nordic Combined, however, I absolutely would NOT ban slipstreaming.
User avatar Libertine Seguros
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25 Jan 2012 09:23

You can't ban slipstreaming, you could have 50 riders starting within a minute of each other, impossible to stop them all from slipstreaming. Anyway, it would be a pretty stupid idea nonetheless. It doesn't work in XC skiing either, really. Had there been snow in the 35 km in Tour de Ski, a group of about 30 would've arrived together and not even Cologna (XC skiing's Cancellara) would've been able to stay away.
maltiv
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25 Jan 2012 09:35

'a chase race', 'slip streaming would not be allowed', '90-100km'

it looks like an unnaturally long tt with the only noticeable difference being that the leaders start first :rolleyes:
Kvinto
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25 Jan 2012 09:38

Kvinto wrote:'a chase race', 'slip streaming would not be allowed', '90-100km'

it looks like an unnaturally long tt with the only noticeable difference being that the leaders start first :rolleyes:

Indeed. Bavarianrider proposes what the Tour has been doing for the last two years. Just with the excitement getting lower rather than higher throughout the event.
theyoungest
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25 Jan 2012 10:21

Libertine Seguros wrote:The talk of a pursuit has been mooted on the forums a few times.

For a GT, I think it would never work; the start would be great, with the battle for the win, but you'd then have rouleur domestiques and sprinters starting hours after the main contenders had finished, battling over the right to finish 160th and it would hold no interest whatsoever except for the trackstands by those competing for the lanterne rouge. It would also require the roads be closed for a similar amount of time as a time trial, if not more, but instead of the crowds getting bigger as time goes by, they could watch the leaders then call it a day and go home while the likes of Bert Grabsch and Aleksandr Kuschynski are still waiting to start.

In a short stage race, I think it could make a great addition - a race like the TDU, where the last rider was 47 minutes down coming into the final stage, would be ideal for this, as you wouldn't have such a long period of downtime at the end. The course would perhaps need to be slightly hilly, so it's not just a power test and effectively a 90km flat time trial; make it so that the riders actually believe they can pick up a lead and defend it in the race, rather than being sitting ducks to Martin and Cancellara.

Patterned after Nordic Combined, however, I absolutely would NOT ban slipstreaming.


I'd like to see it in some form, but it would be difficult to know how exactly to do it.

Maybe you could do it in waves of say, 30 at a time. The maximum starting interval could be 1 or 2 minutes (so you don't have a 10 minute wait between rider 152 and 153). That way you could have still have those at the bottom of GC going early in the day, and the top30 being the climax. There would be unique tactics which come into play for the stage win and GC.

If you ran a traditional pursuit (#1 goes first at the start of the day) I think it would be best early on in a stage race, a day after a climb something like Pena Cabarga.

A novel concept, and I doubt it could ever be a serious feature in cycling.
Ferminal
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25 Jan 2012 10:32

Ferminal wrote:I'd like to see it in some form, but it would be difficult to know how exactly to do it.

Maybe you could do it in waves of say, 30 at a time. The maximum starting interval could be 1 or 2 minutes (so you don't have a 10 minute wait between rider 152 and 153). That way you could have still have those at the bottom of GC going early in the day, and the top30 being the climax. There would be unique tactics which come into play for the stage win and GC.

If you ran a traditional pursuit (#1 goes first at the start of the day) I think it would be best early on in a stage race, a day after a climb something like Pena Cabarga.

A novel concept, and I doubt it could ever be a serious feature in cycling.


I think it could work quite well instead of the short time trial in a race like the Critérium International; have a stage to open up gaps, a flat semitappe, then a pursuit race of 40 or 50km, perhaps on a circuit with a hill in it. The guys near the front could choose to work together to keep the bunch at bay, or go it alone.
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25 Jan 2012 10:42

Libertine Seguros wrote:I think it could work quite well instead of the short time trial in a race like the Critérium International; have a stage to open up gaps, a flat semitappe, then a pursuit race of 40 or 50km, perhaps on a circuit with a hill in it. The guys near the front could choose to work together to keep the bunch at bay, or go it alone.

What effect will this have on the race dynamics in stage 1? If you finish alone with a big gap ahead of a bigger group (as Alberto Contador tends to do) you're screwed. No way you'll stay away from those guys in the pursuit stage.
theyoungest
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25 Jan 2012 10:45

theyoungest wrote:What effect will this have on the race dynamics in stage 1? If you finish alone with a big gap ahead of a bigger group (as Alberto Contador tends to do) you're screwed. No way you'll stay away from those guys in the pursuit stage.

If it's tricky enough then the people who have domestiques should hopefully be far enough back; then the riders behind have the decision to make; do we go it alone? Do we work as an elite bunch to bring back the leader? Do we sit up and let them get a bigger gap, and wait for our domestiques, then rely on pulling them back that way? Do we risk letting some of those people behind us back into the race?

For this method, a stage like Peña Cabarga wouldn't be enough; it would need to be one of those that opens up significant gaps. Either that or the time trial distance is shortened according to the difficulty of the stage before.
User avatar Libertine Seguros
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25 Jan 2012 10:55

there already is a 'chase race', it's on the track
if you want more excitement in bike racing, support the 6-days! Bremen just finished, Berlin is coming up. 2 or 3 chases per night for 6 nights straight.
Image
long live Zesdaagse!
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25 Jan 2012 11:38

Libertine Seguros wrote:The talk of a pursuit has been mooted on the forums a few times.

For a GT, I think it would never work; the start would be great, with the battle for the win, but you'd then have rouleur domestiques and sprinters starting hours after the main contenders had finished, battling over the right to finish 160th and it would hold no interest whatsoever except for the trackstands by those competing for the lanterne rouge.


The simplest solution to that is to simply have everyone at 30 minutes+ or outside the top 20 or whatever start together
William H
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25 Jan 2012 12:46

maltiv wrote:You can't ban slipstreaming, you could have 50 riders starting within a minute of each other, impossible to stop them all from slipstreaming. Anyway, it would be a pretty stupid idea nonetheless. It doesn't work in XC skiing either, really. Had there been snow in the 35 km in Tour de Ski, a group of about 30 would've arrived together and not even Cologna (XC skiing's Cancellara) would've been able to stay away.


In Ironman races dozens of people come out of the water within manga. Yet they are succesfull in implementing the no slip stream rule. So whyshoudl it not work in pro cycling?
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25 Jan 2012 12:53

I think it would work OK with a small number, say 10 or 20.

The others could go first in a traditional manner, a minute apart. The 10 or 20 could then go off in intervals determined by GC differences, leader first. Wherever the 10 finish, that's their overall GC position, regardless of the times of the other 180 or so riders.

This way:-
- You don't get the logistical problems of the huge time intervals between the maillot jaune and lanterne rouge.
- You get some interesting racing in the days leading up to the final stage as riders try to get into the 10.
- You'd still get a stage winner, as the 10 aren't allowed to slipstream, so the 180 other riders still have an objective.
- You'd get the spectacle of the chase.
King Of The Wolds
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25 Jan 2012 13:14

But what happens if the GC is really close, and the rider in position 11 (who happens to be Tony Martin say) is 1 minute behind the leader at the start of the day but completes his time trial a minute and a second quicker than any of the top ten? You'd end up with the fastest person around the entire tour coming 11th on GC. Though maybe that scenario is so unlikely as to be impossible.
RownhamHill
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25 Jan 2012 14:07

Valverde would win the tour :D
The Sheep
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25 Jan 2012 14:08

This is a gread idea, I think I would organize it as a seperate 2 days race. The first day will be a time trial of +/- 30k. And the second day a purchase race of the same lenght. And to avoid big sprinting trains chasing the time triallist, I would like each team to start with only two riders.
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25 Jan 2012 14:46

King Of The Wolds wrote:I think it would work OK with a small number, say 10 or 20.

The others could go first in a traditional manner, a minute apart. The 10 or 20 could then go off in intervals determined by GC differences, leader first. Wherever the 10 finish, that's their overall GC position, regardless of the times of the other 180 or so riders.

This way:-
- You don't get the logistical problems of the huge time intervals between the maillot jaune and lanterne rouge.
- You get some interesting racing in the days leading up to the final stage as riders try to get into the 10.
- You'd still get a stage winner, as the 10 aren't allowed to slipstream, so the 180 other riders still have an objective.
- You'd get the spectacle of the chase.


Exactly what I was thinking, use the top 20 for the cutoff.
80 km
no TT bikes
rolling course, finish on a Mur type climb

I think it would be awesome, worth a try at least.
User avatar Fatclimber
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25 Jan 2012 20:05

this idea is because Germany don't have a GC man?
John A. Zoidberg wrote:In my experience, boxes are usually empty, sometimes with a little cheese stuck to the top, and one time pepperoni, what a day that was!

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25 Jan 2012 21:17

Sofí wrote:this idea is because Germany don't have a GC man?

Correct.
Plus their favourite colour is grey. (or favorite color is gray, if preferred)
Mellow Velo
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25 Jan 2012 22:08

Sofía_ wrote:this idea is because Germany don't have a GC man?


Andreas Klöden says hi.
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