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Ivan Basso Discussion Thread

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Do you think basso will win Il Giro this year?

Poll ended at 02 May 2012 22:05

Yes.
38
34%
No.
74
66%
 
Total votes : 112

28 Apr 2012 09:05

Woody22 wrote:There is no way Basso will win the Giro and it is 50/50 if he will even finish it.

I am open to any avitar bets on this but when he doesn't win you will have to have an Evans avitar until the start of the Tour.

If he wins.... well, your wish is my comand.


I'll do an avatar bet with you.. If he finishes, you take a Basso avatar of my choice until the start of the tour - if he doesn't finish, I'll take your Evans avatar until the start of the Tour.

Deal?
Ryo Hazuki wrote:contador is such a coward :o
User avatar Hugo Koblet
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28 Apr 2012 10:53

Hugo Koblet wrote:I'll do an avatar bet with you.. If he finishes, you take a Basso avatar of my choice until the start of the tour - if he doesn't finish, I'll take your Evans avatar until the start of the Tour.

Deal?


If we can make it that Basso will not finish in the top 10 then we have a deal.

What do you say??
User avatar Woody22
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28 Apr 2012 12:14

rhubroma wrote:He is a big enigma, Basso, right now.

Basso has had two careers, pre-OP and post-OP. At the apogee, before the fall, Basso truly seemed to be the best stage racer in the world after the Texan retired, having also finished 3rd in L-B-L as well as good placing’s in other important events. He even became a good time trialist, the ability of which, in the second part of his career, has dissipated completely.

Of all the consequences of OP, this is perhaps the most sensational. His non-ability to ride fast against the clock. Whereas it seemed as if Basso, the climber, had returned to his former level, when winning on the Zoncolon and as a result his second Giro. But then we had the lackluster performances at the Tours and the Giro since then, so that one can only conclude that when he was racing for Riis against Armstrong, Basso was on the best of programs, without that he isn't at the same level. Does this mean that his 2010 Giro victory was on pane et aqua?

As far as this Giro goes, of course, it all depends if Basso can reach the level of 2010. If he does, then yes, if not, no. Right now that's impossible to say. We have to wait till the 12th stage of the Giro to get a response to our inquiry. One factor in his favor, however, is the lack of competition. Scarponi doesn't seem to be at a high level like last year. Cunego? Fuglsang is out, but Frank Schleck is in, though as a last minute sub. Does the Luxembourgese have the form and the will to fight for the Giro till Milan? In any case the French race suits him more, though this appears to be a "lite" Giro without the usual sadistic climbs. At the same time the Tour of California has siphoned off the rest who may have been present, purely due to the commercial interests, which is a shame. The Giro deserves more respect from the UCI and it is scandalous that they moved the US event to the Giro time in the calendar. In the age of hyper-specialization and sponsorship priorities this has meant that the Giro stopped being fought over by the biggest international champions, who didn't want to risk-sacrifice a Tour by taking on two Grand Tours in one season (Contador’s failure last season may have ended all possibility that this will change); so the Giro didn't need another obstacle from the official governing body of pro cycling to its history and dignity. While many who ride two GTs now opt for the Vuelta instead, in light of the subsequent Worlds event. I think this is why Zomengan tried to make the Giro parcours as spectacular as possible to compensate.

At any rate Basso can win this Giro, but that all depends on him.


I tend to agree. He indicates that he is not in super shape but does he have to be to win this Giro ? The other contenders are more inconsistent than Basso and their TT is weaker. I expect Gadret to podium. Scarponi is a bit of an enigma these days. The field for this race is not as strong as previous editions which works in Basso's favour also. I actually think Nibali could have won it if he rode. Cunego could be the interesting rider. He was much improved in the Tour last year but the TT is always a problem. Frank Schleck was training for the Tour so he may struggle and may even prefer to look for stage wins and save something for the Tour to help his brother unless he is in a position on GC to make the podium.
movingtarget
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28 Apr 2012 12:41

movingtarget wrote:I tend to agree. He indicates that he is not in super shape but does he have to be to win this Giro ? The other contenders are more inconsistent than Basso and their TT is weaker. I expect Gadret to podium. Scarponi is a bit of an enigma these days. The field for this race is not as strong as previous editions which works in Basso's favour also. I actually think Nibali could have won it if he rode. Cunego could be the interesting rider. He was much improved in the Tour last year but the TT is always a problem. Frank Schleck was training for the Tour so he may struggle and may even prefer to look for stage wins and save something for the Tour to help his brother unless he is in a position on GC to make the podium.


That's a completely valid analysis. One of the problems with assessing the field is that cycling has gotten so screwed up over the last several years (ever since someone retired), with champions being taken down for their doping habits, to make it a mess to try and make sense of it all.

Last year Contador dominated the Giro but not the Tour, whereas the previous year Evans was dropped by Basso in the Giro, was nowhere in the Tour, then wins the Grande Boucle the next year (over Contador and Shleck); at the same time Basso was poor at the Tour after his 2010 Giro victory and last year, when he didn't ride the Italian event, though in 06 looked really capable of doing the double. Is this normal? The cards get reshuffled faster than one knows what he's got in his hand.

Nibali won't be at the Giro because his team's Cannodale sponsor has too many vested commercial interests in California. Again, this is a shame. Especially if he fails at the Tour, which is likely. As for the rest, I agree. One thing’s for sure, in the absence of other champions, this Giro’s shapping up to be like the one Cunego won in 04, which is why in fact he won it: for lack of completion. At least Zomengan entertained us with his follies. Now with these new brilliant Italian minds at work (to save face!?!?!? To not make the Tour look ridiculous!?!?!?!?), they have taken away even that. Poor Italia!
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28 Apr 2012 12:48

rhubroma wrote:Nibali won't be at the Giro because his team's Cannodale sponsor has too many vested commercial interests in California. Again, this is a shame.
That's great news! It's not a shame to ride the Tour ;)
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28 Apr 2012 13:30

cineteq wrote:That's great news! It's not a shame to ride the Tour ;)


Well that depends on how you look at it. The tifosi would rather see lo squalo di Messina at the Giro, or better yet, ride the Giro, and then the Tour (which isn't going to happen, though Eddie still believes this is still a good route to take). His presence will be missed in Italy, regardless of how he does in France.
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28 Apr 2012 13:58

movingtarget wrote:I tend to agree. He indicates that he is not in super shape but does he have to be to win this Giro ? The other contenders are more inconsistent than Basso and their TT is weaker. I expect Gadret to podium. Scarponi is a bit of an enigma these days. The field for this race is not as strong as previous editions which works in Basso's favour also. I actually think Nibali could have won it if he rode. Cunego could be the interesting rider. He was much improved in the Tour last year but the TT is always a problem. Frank Schleck was training for the Tour so he may struggle and may even prefer to look for stage wins and save something for the Tour to help his brother unless he is in a position on GC to make the podium.


scarponi and rujano have better itt's than basso. that's for sure
User avatar Ryo Hazuki
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28 Apr 2012 14:04

rhubroma wrote:That's a completely valid analysis. One of the problems with assessing the field is that cycling has gotten so screwed up over the last several years (ever since someone retired), with champions being taken down for their doping habits, to make it a mess to try and make sense of it all.

Last year Contador dominated the Giro but not the Tour, whereas the previous year Evans was dropped by Basso in the Giro, was nowhere in the Tour, then wins the Grande Boucle the next year (over Contador and Shleck); at the same time Basso was poor at the Tour after his 2010 Giro victory and last year, when he didn't ride the Italian event, though in 06 looked really capable of doing the double. Is this normal? The cards get reshuffled faster than one knows what he's got in his hand.

Nibali won't be at the Giro because his team's Cannodale sponsor has too many vested commercial interests in California. Again, this is a shame. Especially if he fails at the Tour, which is likely. As for the rest, I agree. One thing’s for sure, in the absence of other champions, this Giro’s shapping up to be like the one Cunego won in 04, which is why in fact he won it: for lack of completion. At least Zomengan entertained us with his follies. Now with these new brilliant Italian minds at work (to save face!?!?!? To not make the Tour look ridiculous!?!?!?!?), they have taken away even that. Poor Italia!


I would not say Nibali will win the Tour but he will probably cause headaches for the other GC contender because he does not mind taking risks and making unexpected attacks especially if someone like Sanchez is able to go with him. Nibali will have to time trial very well to make the podium I think. Evans said it all when he commented that without Contador, the race will be harder to control and riders will be more daring. I still think that current form suggests that Nibali would have done well in the Giro. If Basso does not win the team will probably rue their decision about Nibali.
movingtarget
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28 Apr 2012 17:38

i have the same opinion as always.
if at 2006 level,he wins it easily but i guess it's impossible for robobasso to come back

if at 2010 level,it will be extremely difficult to win it.rujano last year was above that level and scarponi equal to that.the performances of this spring suggest that this year they will probably climb faster the mountains then in 2010 which was more "meh".so he has to step up his game now

2011 tour was a disaster waiting to happen,something happened after that crash on etna,loss of blood,something medical.he had nothing left for the alps in the last week

personally,i pretty much love ivan basso so i hope he does well(podium?) but he already has two giri.this one is for rujanito
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28 Apr 2012 17:47

I think he'll be at the same level as in 2009, so no unless Rujano and Scarponi fail hard.
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28 Apr 2012 17:49

I can see Robobasso grinding Rujano of his wheel 9kms from the top at Stelvio :D
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Vino attacks everyone
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28 Apr 2012 18:36

Vino attacks everyone wrote:I can see Robobasso grinding Rujano of his wheel 9kms from the top at Stelvio :D


robobasso would ride every1 off his wheel on the mortirolo and solo home on the stelvio. :o
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28 Apr 2012 23:45

jens_attacks wrote:if at 2010 level,it will be extremely difficult to win it.rujano last year was above that level and scarponi equal to that.the performances of this spring suggest that this year they will probably climb faster the mountains then in 2010 which was more "meh".so he has to step up his game now

2011 tour was a disaster waiting to happen,something happened after that crash on etna,loss of blood,something medical.he had nothing left for the alps in the last week

I thought Basso 2010 was really quite good. If on the form from 2010 he would have been closer to Contador than Scarponi if he participated.

I was annoyed by that Etna crash as well but during the 2nd week in the Pyrennes he seemed like he would ride away with the TDF in the 3rd week- because he said stuff about his stamina ( which failed because of the Etna incident ).
I'd agree with you but then we'd both be wrong

The Grand Boucle wasn't just Europe's for the taking.

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D&C "He will soon..."
greenedge
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28 Apr 2012 23:47

rhubroma wrote:Last year Contador dominated the Giro but not the Tour, whereas the previous year Evans was dropped by Basso in the Giro, was nowhere in the Tour,


He did crash ( it's not like in 09 when he failed ).
I'd agree with you but then we'd both be wrong

The Grand Boucle wasn't just Europe's for the taking.

Quote:VAE
"Has Porte ever dropped Nibali in any mountain?"
D&C "He will soon..."
greenedge
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29 Apr 2012 01:29

So Basso to the Giro....Nibali for the Tour then?

If so, does Nibali race the Cali? He would be a favorite there, but I would say not such a good idea if he is serious about the TdF.
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29 Apr 2012 02:09

BillytheKid wrote:So Basso to the Giro....Nibali for the Tour then?

If so, does Nibali race the Cali? He would be a favorite there, but I would say not such a good idea if he is serious about the TdF.


I don't think he'll waste too many energies in Cali, he'll be there mainly for the sponsor, and it has to be like that considering that his season has already been awesome so far.
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29 Apr 2012 02:38

greenedge wrote:I thought Basso 2010 was really quite good. If on the form from 2010 he would have been closer to Contador than Scarponi if he participated.

I was annoyed by that Etna crash as well but during the 2nd week in the Pyrennes he seemed like he would ride away with the TDF in the 3rd week- because he said stuff about his stamina ( which failed because of the Etna incident ).


Basso in 2010 was excellent!
It would blow the race apart this year if he could come in that form.
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29 Apr 2012 04:11

BillytheKid wrote:So Basso to the Giro....Nibali for the Tour then?

If so, does Nibali race the Cali? He would be a favorite there, but I would say not such a good idea if he is serious about the TdF.


Nibali will do AToC, Dauphine & Tour. He just cannot keep skipping the Tour for ever, & as soon as Basso fades into retirement, he'll be the front man for Liquigas- -believe it or not -he might do something good this year, before Contador takes over from 2013 onwards...;)
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29 Apr 2012 04:26

hfer07 wrote:Nibali will do AToC, Dauphine & Tour. He just cannot keep skipping the Tour for ever, & as soon as Basso fades into retirement, he'll the front man for Liquigas
he already IS the front man of Liquigas ;)
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29 Apr 2012 04:38

cineteq wrote:he already IS the front man of Liquigas ;)


Peter Sagan might disagree with you:D


we know he's the sole leader & the entire team should be at his disposal from now on....
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