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Nibali discussion thread

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07 May 2012 00:17

In my opinion Nibali should go to Lotto Belisol and help VDB2 win the Tour once and for all.:)
User avatar Andre.J
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07 May 2012 00:27

Eyeballs Out wrote:I wonder who Liquigas will replace Nibali with ? (assuming they've got the money to spend that they were offering him).

Betancur ? Pozzovivo ? Taaramae ?


The possibilities make me happy. Pozzovivo the most likely out of these three I think. Anyone know about if he has a contract with Colnago for next year?
Moser fanboy.

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07 May 2012 00:41

I like the fit at Astana. There are already a few italians there, the support team is strong and their shouldn't be any leadership clashes.
BMC leadership clash with Evans at the tour (if Nibali wants the Tour) and Gilbert in the ardennes. About the same number of italians.
Others thrown into the ring Greenedge, OMG please no. Certainly not yet. How is Nibali's english? Who would be his key mountain dom? and for Greenedge, trying to establish an australian cycling identity your biggest star is Italian.
OPQS seem a solid fit, if you can convince Leipheimer to be number 2. Sky clash with Wiggins, Froome. Katusha...maybe. Radioshack? they have the check book and backup team, there's just the tour sticking point, but he'd be great going to the Giro or Vuelta. Saxobank...can't support Contador at 2 GTs let alone NIbala and Contador at 3.
I like the idea of Nibali and Contador on a team together. It'd be rare you wouldn't podium a stage race all year long. I'm pretty sure Riis doesn't have the money. Thats would be 5 million plus in 2 guys, before you sign anyone to help them.
karlboss
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07 May 2012 00:42

I'd rather see Nibali ride in that familiar green liquigas jersey but if I'd have to chose I'd say Astana.
Rest In Peace:
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07 May 2012 00:55

BMC are a mess of a team organisationally. Too many chiefs, not enough Indians. Pozzato said he'd rather ride for Farnese Vini that BMC because everyone knew their role there, and you can see why. Astana are the opposite of BMC - lots of guys who can chance it, but no real strong leaders for the GTs, I think it's a perfect fit. He might have to scale back his ambitions for the Ardennes in terms of support, but his ride in LBL would actually have worked with the Astana boys.
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07 May 2012 01:12

Parrulo wrote:why would evans remain the team leader for the tour even after he starts his decline as a rider? that doesn't make any sense

i hope he doesn't go to BMC tho.


Evans has already won the tour and I don't think he will be leaving the sport for at least 3 or 4 more years. BMC I think will give the tour leadership to him because he has won the tour, and you never know Evans could become like Horner and not decline. But Evans is just one leader Nibali would have to contend with if he went to BMC, with Astana he would be given full leadership in any of the grand tours.
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07 May 2012 01:14

Caruut wrote:BMC are a mess of a team organisationally. Too many chiefs, not enough Indians. Pozzato said he'd rather ride for Farnese Vini that BMC because everyone knew their role there, and you can see why. Astana are the opposite of BMC - lots of guys who can chance it, but no real strong leaders for the GTs, I think it's a perfect fit. He might have to scale back his ambitions for the Ardennes in terms of support, but his ride in LBL would actually have worked with the Astana boys.


This comes up quite a bit with BMC but is it actually true?

For stage races their is one captain, For the Ardennes there is one captain, for the Cobbles there is well quite a mess of guys who want to be captain, but I think it was obvious in the end the Indians knew their place and rode for Ballan.

As noted I agree that there aren't enough high mountain indians, but anyone good enough, might also be considered a captain.
karlboss
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07 May 2012 01:34

karlboss wrote:This comes up quite a bit with BMC but is it actually true?

For stage races their is one captain, For the Ardennes there is one captain, for the Cobbles there is well quite a mess of guys who want to be captain, but I think it was obvious in the end the Indians knew their place and rode for Ballan.

As noted I agree that there aren't enough high mountain indians, but anyone good enough, might also be considered a captain.


There is one captain for stage race GCs. However, Hushovd and Gilbert are going to want to get some airtime at the Tour again. Are they going to spend the day all alone and just do their best in the finale? Probably not, they'll each want one or two guys for the stages they're targeting. Over 3 weeks, that's going to start showing, I think.

The cobbles especially is what I mean. They have 3 riders capable of leading the team - Ballan, Hushovd and GVA. Personally, I think Hushovd's "superstar" reputation has been put ahead of his ability to win the race. In the Ardennes, Cadel also wants to contest them, and have riders like Van Garderen, who's on so much money that he really ought to be leading something.
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07 May 2012 01:45

Caruut wrote:There is one captain for stage race GCs. However, Hushovd and Gilbert are going to want to get some airtime at the Tour again. Are they going to spend the day all alone and just do their best in the finale? Probably not, they'll each want one or two guys for the stages they're targeting. Over 3 weeks, that's going to start showing, I think.

The cobbles especially is what I mean. They have 3 riders capable of leading the team - Ballan, Hushovd and GVA. Personally, I think Hushovd's "superstar" reputation has been put ahead of his ability to win the race. In the Ardennes, Cadel also wants to contest them, and have riders like Van Garderen, who's on so much money that he really ought to be leading something.


Gilbert's airtime will come courtesy of a 3km effort at the end of 1 or 2 days, and those days there is an excellent chance it will be Cadel leading him out. The amount of work BMC did last year keeping Cadel at the front won't change just because Gilbert might win a stage. I think they'll be ok.

Hushovd's may go in a break for 1 or 2 days and noone from the team will go with him, i think BMC can afford that.

Cobbles, there is no real captain. PR Ballan, for a break/attack/race of attrition, Hushovd for a Sprint, Flanders well GVA played the team card really well, to finish 4th. While the rest of the team suported, suppose it went a different way, it would have been Ballan supporting GVA for a sprint.

In the Ardennes, time will tell, but I think you'll find Cadel marks attacks counter attacks, while Gilbert waits for the sprint, they should work well together, that's if Cadel can be bothered, i think he'll work less and less in them. Looking at 2011 as an example, of what an inform Evans does in the Ardennes.

The money TJVG is on doesn't make him a captain. I think he had leadership in Romandie, until a tree assaulted him.
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07 May 2012 02:02

Shame he leaves liquigas IMO.
RIP Craig, you'll be missed friend.
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07 May 2012 02:05

Timmy-loves-Rabo wrote:Shame he leaves liquigas IMO.


Take money out of the equation, i think Liquigas is the best place for him, if they just let him pick his schedule. If his schedule depends on Basso, he should go elsewhere.
karlboss
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07 May 2012 02:11

karlboss wrote:Take money out of the equation, i think Liquigas is the best place for him, if they just let him pick his schedule. If his schedule depends on Basso, he should go elsewhere.


Agree with this, Sagan presents a leadership problem as does Basso, but Liquigas I think would be the best if not one of the best teams to support him.
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07 May 2012 02:49

I think it would be a smarter move for him to go astana TBH.
But he might still go to BMC.
All that too many chiefs, too little indians is bull.
In every race they have figured out who are the domestiques and leaders.
Nibali would be way more comfortable in astana, but BMC also has no lack of italians.
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07 May 2012 03:01

Eyeballs Out wrote:I wonder who Liquigas will replace Nibali with ? (assuming they've got the money to spend that they were offering him).

Betancur ? Pozzovivo ? Taaramae ?


The pay rise Nibali isn't receiving is going to Sagan. With Liquigas unlikely to continue it makes sense to slim down the wages.

The team will now build itself around Sagan. Amadio might be able to squeeze two or three more solid GTs out of Basso, Capecchi may be able to lead (at least in shorter races). Viviani, Moser and Oss will get plenty of results also. He will continue to sign young talent like Agostini who may turn out to be their next GT leader, or perhaps look to sign a second tier leader who still has some room for improvement.

I think Betancur would be a nice fit.
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07 May 2012 03:18

TourOfSardinia wrote:I agree - he won't find a better family atmos' elsewhere - and big brother Basso is moving over - and all the young ragazzi would be at his service at Liquigas. What's a few MEuro more really worth.

He could become a squalo out of water.
Image


While it's true that Basso will be on his way soon enough, you forget that he's not the only conflict on the team:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUDXKY1Np2M


With Basso gone, Sagan and Nibali wouldn't conflict in stage races much, but the classics present an issue. Sagan will be better in races like FW and LBL in the coming years, and I don't think Nibali would be willing to cede or share leadership with him at all for those. Not to mention they just seem to create conflict where there doesn't really need to be any.

I don't know, I really like Nibali at Liquigas and Liquigas will really need to find another GT talent with Nibali and Basso both on the way out or on the decline. On the other hand, the awesomeness that is Peter Sagan should have no problem keeping the team alive and kicking while they do find their next GC threat...
"He who laughs when things go wrong has thought of someone to blame it on."
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07 May 2012 03:28

Ferminal wrote:The pay rise Nibali isn't receiving is going to Sagan. With Liquigas unlikely to continue it makes sense to slim down the wages.

The team will now build itself around Sagan. Amadio might be able to squeeze two or three more solid GTs out of Basso, Capecchi may be able to lead (at least in shorter races). Viviani, Moser and Oss will get plenty of results also. He will continue to sign young talent like Agostini who may turn out to be their next GT leader, or perhaps look to sign a second tier leader who still has some room for improvement.

I think Betancur would be a nice fit.


Good post. Liqui have a great classics team lead by Sagan, no pressing need for a Nibali replacement there, they still have Basso for the GTs again no pressing need for a replacement. It will be save money and development I'd expect. I think a focus on Italians though.
karlboss
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07 May 2012 04:25

Ferminal wrote:The pay rise Nibali isn't receiving is going to Sagan. With Liquigas unlikely to continue it makes sense to slim down the wages.

The team will now build itself around Sagan. Amadio might be able to squeeze two or three more solid GTs out of Basso, Capecchi may be able to lead (at least in shorter races). Viviani, Moser and Oss will get plenty of results also. He will continue to sign young talent like Agostini who may turn out to be their next GT leader, or perhaps look to sign a second tier leader who still has some room for improvement.

I think Betancur would be a nice fit.



this!

Is always "cheaper" to nurture youngster than "paying" high salaries to good riders--just ask Riis :D
Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can?
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07 May 2012 05:38

There's been speculation in the press for at least the past 12 - 18 months about the possibility of Nibali going to Astana.
It's a shame that he's going to go where the pay cheque is the biggest, but at the end of the day, athletes have a shorter career than most so I guess he's safe guarding his future.

Plus more money to keep Sagan(s) for a long term deal.

Money is the root of all evil, specially in sport!
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07 May 2012 07:20

I would like for Nibali to just go to a team that can pay him what he is worth. Both teams seem to appreciate his talent/ have need of a young GT rider.

However if Kreuziger goes well at the Giro, Astana should try keep him him ( unless if he wants to move ). It would also be bad for Inlinsky who would have to ride for Nibali at LBL.

BMC could realistically sign him as the replacement to Cadel. He puts in good training and competes all year round. TJVG might also be able to help until he turns 27. Nibali would not be able to lead at the TDF next year probably.

I have to say i think he would look awesome in both kits.

BMC would double their offer if he becomes WC.
I'd agree with you but then we'd both be wrong

The Grand Boucle wasn't just Europe's for the taking.

Quote:VAE
"Has Porte ever dropped Nibali in any mountain?"
D&C "He will soon..."
greenedge
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07 May 2012 07:24

royalpig180 wrote:With Basso gone, Sagan and Nibali wouldn't conflict in stage races much, but the classics present an issue. Sagan will be better in races like FW and LBL in the coming years, and I don't think Nibali would be willing to cede or share leadership with him at all for those.
On the other hand, the awesomeness that is Peter Sagan should have no problem keeping the team alive and kicking while they do find their next GC threat...


True- Sagan would be a great leader. Moser would also continue to develop, Oss and Viviani too. Eros could win a short stage race a year and Basso could continue going well at the Giro for another year.

I think Sagan would be better at AGR than LBL.
I'd agree with you but then we'd both be wrong

The Grand Boucle wasn't just Europe's for the taking.

Quote:VAE
"Has Porte ever dropped Nibali in any mountain?"
D&C "He will soon..."
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