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Doping according to some

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

Doping according to some

02 Jul 2009 07:56

It seems some people use these standards to determine if a rider must be doping:

* He's fast.
* He wins races.
* He doesn't win lots of races.
* He wasn't as fast, and now he's faster.
* He won races and was fast, and isn't now.
* He competes in a lot of races.
* He competes in few races.
* If a cheater who got caught says so, no matter how many other lies and falshoods that person has spread.

Others?

I love bike racing, and I hope they keep catching these guys and cleaning things up, but man oh man does it get boring to listen to all the blah blah blah about doping, so much of which is just unsubstantiated rumors that in many cases are "damned if you do, damned if you don't".
davidw
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02 Jul 2009 07:59

If you're so tired of it, why post a new topic on the subject of doping?
User avatar DJ Sprtsch
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02 Jul 2009 08:06

DJ Sprtsch wrote:If you're so tired of it, why post a new topic on the subject of doping?


Actually, it's about the people discussing it.
davidw
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02 Jul 2009 08:09

The blinkered naivete of the OP is amazing.

Case after case after case after case after case after case after case...

I got sick of them all a while ago. It's a great sport but as filthy as hell. You can NOT get behind anyone to support.
User avatar Animal
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02 Jul 2009 08:25

Animal wrote:The blinkered naivete of the OP is amazing.

Case after case after case after case after case after case after case...

I got sick of them all a while ago. It's a great sport but as filthy as hell. You can NOT get behind anyone to support.


There are a lot of them. But some do race clean, and they need support, not blanket condemnation of the whole sport/peleton. Of course, no one knows precisely who they are, so it's impossible to single them out for support either. Never said it was easy, but I'd rather just sit back and watch the races, as it's a beautiful, wonderful sport.

I'm just pointing out how some people seem to cry "doper!", even in opposing circumstances - he's gotten faster, he's on the juice - he got slower, he must have been on the juice then. It gets tedious.
davidw
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02 Jul 2009 08:33

davidw wrote:It seems some people use these standards to determine if a rider must be doping

Others?

First are:
Average cyclismag power
Classification on a GT when EPO or blood transfusion are commonly used, currently top 20!
Team and DS
His doctor
User avatar nobody
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02 Jul 2009 08:47

davidw wrote:It seems some people use these standards to determine if a rider must be doping:

* He's fast.
* He wins races.
* He doesn't win lots of races.
* He wasn't as fast, and now he's faster.
* He won races and was fast, and isn't now.
* He competes in a lot of races.
* He competes in few races.
* If a cheater who got caught says so, no matter how many other lies and falshoods that person has spread.

Others?

I love bike racing, and I hope they keep catching these guys and cleaning things up, but man oh man does it get boring to listen to all the blah blah blah about doping, so much of which is just unsubstantiated rumors that in many cases are "damned if you do, damned if you don't".




he's from spain/italy/germany/former soviet-union/belgium/netherlands

that's enough nowadays
User avatar ak-zaaf
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02 Jul 2009 08:54

nobody wrote:First are:
Average cyclismag power
Classification on a GT when EPO or blood transfusion are commonly used, currently top 20!
Team and DS
His doctor


You do not know their power without the power files from a power meter (un tampered with...)
I'd say almost every Tour finisher is doped. The "pace" is so incredibly high that clean riders would have to DNF due to the timecut. Maybe every single one that reaches Paris is doped. Sit back and watch a big show. Thats what it is, entertainment.

I thought by this point some person or group would be pushing to legalize doping. Thats a tangible goal. Stopping doping will never ever happen ever as long as money is to be made.

Why do people want to fight doping and then at the same time offer these riders millions in contract deals and then the possiblily of huge endorsement offers, speaking fees, etc. ??? :confused: Its like driving the speed limit the wrong way down a one way street.
"In the field of sports you are more or less accepted for what you do rather than what you are."
Althea Gibson
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02 Jul 2009 09:13

Animal wrote:You can NOT get behind anyone to support.

I agree with all you say. You and I feel the same. But I do think there is something to hope for. You can look to riders that speak out, and riders that sign on to groups like BikePure. Yes, we've been let down in the past about people that talk the talk then get busted (Kohl comes to mind), but by continuing to pressure the riders, and teams, it slowly helps turn the tide, and gives the impression that it's good to not dope, even if you don't gain many results. And it's good to speak out against doping, as there will be a lot of fans that will still support you for it.
User avatar Alpe d'Huez
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02 Jul 2009 09:18

ak-zaaf wrote:he's from spain/italy/germany/former soviet-union/belgium/netherlands

that's enough nowadays


You missed out the USA!
Vanderaerden's perm
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02 Jul 2009 09:26

davidw wrote:It seems some people use these standards to determine if a rider must be doping:

* He's fast.
* He wins races.
* He doesn't win lots of races.
* He wasn't as fast, and now he's faster.
* He won races and was fast, and isn't now.
* He competes in a lot of races.
* He competes in few races.
* If a cheater who got caught says so, no matter how many other lies and falshoods that person has spread.

Others?


You forgot the most important one:

* Is jacked up on HGH, IGH, EPO and using blood doping.
User avatar whiteboytrash
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02 Jul 2009 09:30

davidw wrote:It seems some people use these standards to determine if a rider must be doping:

* He's fast.
* He wins races.
* He doesn't win lots of races.
* He wasn't as fast, and now he's faster.
* He won races and was fast, and isn't now.
* He competes in a lot of races.
* He competes in few races.
* If a cheater who got caught says so, no matter how many other lies and falshoods that person has spread.

Others?



Some more:

* I have an unborn twin.
* My mother is sick and I'm carrying her drugs.
* Its for my pet.
* I have no idea why my girlfriend was caught with a suitcase full of EPO crossing the French border.
* I transferred €7000 to a person I've never met for training plans.
* I was in Columbia and someone put cocaine in some cookies I bought.


Thats why.
User avatar whiteboytrash
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02 Jul 2009 11:16

whiteboytrash wrote:Some more:

* I have an unborn twin.
* My mother is sick and I'm carrying her drugs.
* Its for my pet.
* I have no idea why my girlfriend was caught with a suitcase full of EPO crossing the French border.
* I transferred €7000 to a person I've never met for training plans.
* I was in Columbia and someone put cocaine in some cookies I bought.

Thats why.


* actovegin for soigneurs
* a lot of used syringes used for acupunture treatment
* sex with wife
* beer, jack daniels
User avatar nobody
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02 Jul 2009 11:21

BigBoat wrote:You do not know their power without the power files from a power meter (un tampered with...)

Cyclismag evaluates power on climb with elevation, time, ratio and a weight equal for all riders of 78kg (bike included).
So, it's possible to have charts like this where we can detect the arrival of EPO inside peloton!
Image

1997: hct limit of 50%
2001: EPO test
User avatar nobody
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02 Jul 2009 11:37

Big drop after 98!:D
User avatar Animal
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02 Jul 2009 11:38

2003 was when LA suffered a lot. The peloton were lower on power.

2004 it kicks up again. When was CERA available?

On edit: I was reading it wrong. Looks like power kicks up in 2003.
User avatar Animal
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02 Jul 2009 11:51

Animal wrote:2003 was when LA suffered a lot. The peloton were lower on power.

2004 it kicks up again. When was CERA available?

On edit: I was reading it wrong. Looks like power kicks up in 2003.


When did the EPO test come in?
User avatar rolfrae
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02 Jul 2009 13:08

davidw wrote:There are a lot of them. But some do race clean...


In Cat 5 there are.
Ever bike? Now that's something that makes life worth living!...Oh, to just grip your handlebars and lay down to it, and go ripping and tearing through streets and road, over railroad tracks and bridges, threading crowds, avoiding collisions, at twenty miles or more an hour, and wondering all the time when you're going to smash up. Well, now, that's something! And then go home again after three hours of it...and then to think that tomorrow I can do it all over again! — Jack London
User avatar boalio
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02 Jul 2009 13:43

boalio wrote:In Cat 5 there are.


Ah, right, that's another one I forgot:

* If they are faster than I am, they must be on drugs.
davidw
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Location: Padova, Italy

02 Jul 2009 13:55

davidw wrote:There are a lot of them. But some do race clean, and they need support, not blanket condemnation of the whole sport/peleton. Of course, no one knows precisely who they are, so it's impossible to single them out for support either. Never said it was easy, but I'd rather just sit back and watch the races, as it's a beautiful, wonderful sport.

I'm just pointing out how some people seem to cry "doper!", even in opposing circumstances - he's gotten faster, he's on the juice - he got slower, he must have been on the juice then. It gets tedious.

My new theory is that you figure out how widespread the doping is about the same time you learn a certain word has only one e. David is apparently not there yet.

The reason for the correlation, I believe, is that it is not a word naturally spelled correctly by most English speakers, and the only place it is normally seen spelled correctly is in writing by cycling-knowledgeable people. Until one has done some serious cycling reading, one is likely to remain ignorant about both the doping situation and this particular spelling...
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