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Joaquim 'Purito' Rodriguez Discussion thread

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27 May 2012 19:37

Hmm. Just thinking off the top of my head, since Purito joined Katusha

2nd place - Giro, Fleche Wallone (twice), AGR, Tour of Basque Country


Purito =

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Fetisoff
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27 May 2012 21:27

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/rodriguez-narrowly-misses-first-grand-tour-victory

No ****. How about doing nothing except for the final sprint on the stage to Lago Laceno when Hesjedal was dangling at the back. But of course had he attacked he would have needed to cover a gigantic distance of 4 "flat" kms after the climb and would have paid the price in the 3rd week.

And the statement about bonuses is pathetic.
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27 May 2012 21:39

Flamin wrote:A deprecation thread for someone who obtained his best result in a grand tour in his entire career? bit weird. and I can think of many more guys who would 'deserve' such thread way more than purito anyway. *cough* basso *cough* scarponi *cough*

Indeed. Almost no one predicted that Rodriguez would end up on the podium, and now he's getting depreciated for "only" finishing 2nd, as well as winning two stages and the point's competition?

Almost every single time Rodriguez has attacked early in his career he has cracked and ended up losing massive time. So instead he stuck to what he is the best at: attacks from 1 km to go. And it almost won him the Giro. Had there been time bonuses, he most likely would've won. Unlike Scarponi and Basso, Rodriguez wasn't racing for the podium or whatever in the final stages. He was doing everything he could to win the race and tried to do that by utilizing his strengths.

I think those claiming that Rodriguez "definitely" would've gained more time on Hesjedal if he had attacked earlier really aren't aware of Rodriguez' characteristics as a rider. Hesjedal was simply much stronger than Purito, to such a degree that if Rodriguez had attacked earlier he would've been caught and subsequently dropped.
maltiv
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27 May 2012 21:49

You can list all his stage placings and price money won as well, but that's not the point.

When your tactics consist of "hoping that people blow up by themselves" and sprinting away from everybody when within range (and perhaps item 3 "secretly hoping that riders behind do bad TTs) and at the same time you think of yourself as one of a GT favorites you deserve all the scorn.
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27 May 2012 21:52

roundabout wrote:You can list all his stage placings and price money won as well, but that's not the point.

When your tactics consist of "hoping that people blow up by themselves" and sprinting away from everybody when within range (and perhaps item 3 "secretly hoping that riders behind do bad TTs) and at the same time you think of yourself as one of a GT favorites you deserve all the scorn.


This is my point indeed. It's a pretty negative style of racing.
BYOP88 wrote:Great to see that Porte has rediscovered his 2010/11 climbing form. Hope he can keep it for the rest of the Tour and year.
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27 May 2012 22:01

Unfortunately, that is the case. It's also partly why J-Rod will probably never win a GT, plus the fact that his TTing is weak.
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27 May 2012 22:01

Dekker_Tifosi wrote:This is my point indeed. It's a pretty negative style of racing.


same for me.
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27 May 2012 22:18

maltiv wrote:
I think those claiming that Rodriguez "definitely" would've gained more time on Hesjedal if he had attacked earlier really aren't aware of Rodriguez' characteristics as a rider. Hesjedal was simply much stronger than Purito, to such a degree that if Rodriguez had attacked earlier he would've been caught and subsequently dropped.


If he can finish with top riders at mountains and if he made time gaps at grand tours by earlier attacks (at Vuelta which Nibali won), then his characteristics is a climber and a very explosive one perhaps most explosive with AC. He was the lightest, if you go climb a steep and long climb with your own bicycle, being even 2-3 kg lighter make a big difference.

Basso and Scarponi did everything they could. But they lost as Purito and Rider played together until the last stage. 1st and 2nd week, Basso makes the tempo, then scarponi attacks Purito and Rider brings him back, and one day Rider attacks to take time, other day Purito sprints in the last km.

At stage 17, Basso did everything and Scarponi sacrificed himself at the front. At 19 Basso pulled again Scarponi attacked several times, then it was rider and Jr taking time. At stage 20 Basso didnt have power, JR attacked at Mortirolo to tire Basso, Scarponi attacked at final climb JR waited and attacked at the final km. It was clear that he could have dropped him earlier. Rider was going on his own tempo. Scarponi took risks and cought at the finish line, however he knows that he couldnt do more. Purito didnt take risks and Rider won the Giro with 16 seconds.

Also shame to Cunego. With such form, he could have created a difference and made the race much harder. He tried to gain time at second week only to lose more and thats okey he did try. But at the final week where he came with no winning chance, he exchanged Scarponi's podium for a top 10 place.
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27 May 2012 23:36

I like J-Rod.

It would be interesting to try to time the gap he opened up on Stelvio.
Get the gap to Hesjedal with 800 to go, then 700 and so on. If the gap is increasing for every split, then maybe he should have attacked earlier. If the gap reaches a maximum and then decreases it would indicate that he was on his limit time-wise.
Giro-director Acquarone: "But I do have a favourite: Thomas Löfkvist. Because the first year I was the director RCS Sport, 2009, my first race was the Strade Bianche. There was this tall, handsome Swedish kid, who attacked 10 kilometres from the finish, then the fool went the wrong way, was caught, went backwards, then came through them all at the finish and won the race."
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27 May 2012 23:38

The point is not "Haha he was 2nd he sucks". The crucial thing here is that he had 1st within his grasp, and he didn't even try to take it. If you try and fail, you get respect.
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27 May 2012 23:41

Dekker_Tifosi wrote:But yet. When Evans does this, he gets tons and tons of critics.

Purito does it. It's fine and dandy

Double standards here are annoying me


Evans recently though has not done this- Galibier 2011.
When JROD goes he goes, Evans can barely get a gap unless if he has super form ( 2010 FW ).
Thx however for sticking up for Evans.

I also think JROD deserves some congratulations in finishing 2nd for the first time in a GT. He can still improve in GT's too.
I'd agree with you but then we'd both be wrong

The Grand Boucle wasn't just Europe's for the taking.

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D&C "He will soon..."
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28 May 2012 01:46

purito improving? i think some are forgetting he is already 33 so not exactly young. :o a shame he wasted so many years working for piti
User avatar Parrulo
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28 May 2012 01:46

hrotha wrote:The crucial thing here is that he had 1st within his grasp, and he didn't even try to take it. If you try and fail, you get respect.
It's kind to sad to see a poster taking cheap shots without even thinking what she/he is saying. This is really embarrassing for the people who appreciate all sorts of styles of racing.

Purito Rodriguez has very limited riding skills. He attacks in the last few kms and gets a gap of few seconds. On the other hand, he's not able to do sustained attacks, although he's able to climb with the best. From experience he knows when he attacks early he has either cracked or ended up losing massive time. He's small/short and does not have a lot of power. His ITT performances used to be dreadful. However, with those shortcomings he was able to get 2nd at only 16'' of the worthy winner Hesjedal.

- Stage 4. Rodriguez and Katusha rode an outstanding TTT and get just 5'' behind the winning team.
- Stage 7. Rodriguez gets 2' + over most of the favorites.
- Stage 8. Rodriguez finishes 3rd with favorites, and adds 8'' bonus.
- Stage 10. Rodriguez wins the stage on a devastating attack. He puts 6 sec. on favorites and adds 20'' bonus.
- Stage 15. Rodriguez attacks and get 2nd. He puts 25'' + to the favorites, including gaining 39'' on Hesjedal.
- Stage 17. Rodriguez wins the stage coming from behind on a bunch sprint against the favorites. He dedicates the victory to Tondo.
- Stage 20. Rodriguez attacks and he's able to gain 13'' on Hesjedal. Previously, in Montirolo he attacked the favorites 3 times and they responded.
- Stage 21. He finishes 47'' behind Hesjedal, yet he shows how much he's improved his TT skills.

Now imagine if he hadn't tried as the poster's suggested and Katusha would have finished middle of the pack as many people expected, say +30"

30 + 2 + 8 + 6 + 20 + 39 +13 = 118 seconds, almost 2 minutes

If you try and you fail, you get respect.

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28 May 2012 02:34

Say what you will but he's number 1 :D

CQ Points

Rank Prev. Rider Team Date of birth CQ
1. (2) [ESP] RODRIGUEZ OLIVER Joaquin KAT 12/05/1979 2939
2. (8) [SVK] SAGAN Peter LIQ 26/01/1990 2103
3. (1) [BEL] GILBERT Philippe BMC 05/07/1982 1975
4. (12) [GBR] WIGGINS Bradley SKY 28/04/1980 1915
5. (11) [NOR] BOASSON HAGEN Edvald SKY 17/05/1987 1725
6. (7) [ESP] SANCHEZ GONZALEZ Samuel EUS 05/02/1978 1708
7. (9) [GBR] CAVENDISH Mark SKY 21/05/1985 1645
8. (5) [FRA] VOECKLER Thomas EUC 22/06/1979 1550
9. (100) [BEL] BOONEN Tom OPQ 15/10/1980 1530
10. (17) [ITA] CUNEGO Damiano LAM 19/09/1981 1519

And the hated UCI points he's Number 1!

UCI Points

Rank Prev. Rider Nat. + Birthdate Team (Code) Points
1 6 RODRIGUEZ OLIVER Joaquin ESP19790512 KATUSHA TEAM (KAT) 404
2 1 BOONEN Tom BEL19801015 OMEGA PHARMA-QUICKSTEP (OPQ) 366
3 2 NIBALI Vincenzo ITA19841114 LIQUIGAS-CANNONDALE (LIQ) 272
4 3 SANCHEZ GONZALEZ Samuel ESP19780205 EUSKALTEL - EUSKADI (EUS) 252
5 4 SAGAN Peter SVK19900126 LIQUIGAS-CANNONDALE (LIQ) 229
6 5 WIGGINS Bradley GBR19800428 SKY PROCYCLING (SKY) 224
7 7 GERRANS Simon AUS19800516 ORICA GREENEDGE (OGE) 210
8 68 HESJEDAL Ryder CAN19801209 GARMIN - BARRACUDA (GRM) 197
9 17 CUNEGO Damiano ITA19810919 LAMPRE - ISD (LAM) 184
10 8 FREIRE GOMEZ Oscar ESP19760215 KATUSHA TEAM (KAT) 180
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28 May 2012 02:45

hrotha wrote:The point is not "Haha he was 2nd he sucks". The crucial thing here is that he had 1st within his grasp, and he didn't even try to take it. If you try and fail, you get respect.


I think judgment should be withheld, from all looks of it everyone was pretty wrecked at all the crucial stages. We assume he could have attacked earlier or at least tried (even if he did fail), but I suspect him a better judge of the situation then us forumites. Maybe he was certain if he went earlier he would have cracked badly. The guy is notorious for some bad days.

While I understand the sentiment that he should have at least tried, this sort of racing -calculated- is nothing new to cycling.

Don't agree with the hate the guy is getting.
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28 May 2012 03:30

Timmy-loves-Rabo wrote:Don't agree with the hate the guy is getting.


Agreed.

Seriously folks? A Purito depreciation thread? He just had the best result of his career. He fought hard and used his strengths as much as he could to his advantage. For someone with his talents (incredible anaerobic, less capable in the TT), he did an amazing job. I say chapeau to Rodriguez ... I think he honoured the pink jersey fairly well.

And for all the haters, it is easy to say he shoulda coulda. But he was clearly on the rivet on many occasions. Sometimes the legs won't do what you ask of them (and even asking them to "shut up" won't help)
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28 May 2012 06:10

hrotha wrote:The point is not "Haha he was 2nd he sucks". The crucial thing here is that he had 1st within his grasp, and he didn't even try to take it. If you try and fail, you get respect.


The problem atm is that almost the entire peloton does the same. They are all afraid to ride for the win and rather finish 4th or even worse 2nd..., because if they try and fail they might drop out of the top10.
Sponsors mad, directeur sportif mad... etc.

Get rid of the UCI World Tour point system please.
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28 May 2012 08:37

Honored? You'd assume it was Hesjedal in pink the way they rode the whole last stage.
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28 May 2012 08:58

Kwibus wrote:The problem atm is that almost the entire peloton does the same. They are all afraid to ride for the win and rather finish 4th or even worse 2nd..., because if they try and fail they might drop out of the top10.
Sponsors mad, directeur sportif mad... etc.

Get rid of the UCI World Tour point system please.

Of course, even De Gendt betrayed this mentality when he said all he had in mind was protecting his 8th place. But most others didn't have it so close right in front of them. This is comparable to the Schlecks happily towing Gilbert to the finish line in LBL. Hey, they both podiumed, so great result, right? Well, for most forumers, it wasn't.

Completely agreed about the WT points. They're a large part of the problem. Give tons of points to the winner, some points to the 2nd and minor points to the 3rd if you want to have a points system, and be done with it. Even better, go back to a CQ-style thing but only for informative purposes and let organizers decide who they want in their race.

(As for what others are saying about everybody being wrecked and Purito not being able to do anything else, frankly I'm tired of explaining why I disagree very strongly with that)
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28 May 2012 09:29

cineteq wrote:It's kind to sad to see a poster taking cheap shots without even thinking what she/he is saying. This is really embarrassing for the people who appreciate all sorts of styles of racing.

Purito Rodriguez has very limited riding skills. He attacks in the last few kms and gets a gap of few seconds. On the other hand, he's not able to do sustained attacks, although he's able to climb with the best. From experience he knows when he attacks early he has either cracked or ended up losing massive time. He's small/short and does not have a lot of power. His ITT performances used to be dreadful. However, with those shortcomings he was able to get 2nd at only 16'' of the worthy winner Hesjedal.

- Stage 4. Rodriguez and Katusha rode an outstanding TTT and get just 5'' behind the winning team.
- Stage 7. Rodriguez gets 2' + over most of the favorites.
- Stage 8. Rodriguez finishes 3rd with favorites, and adds 8'' bonus.
- Stage 10. Rodriguez wins the stage on a devastating attack. He puts 6 sec. on favorites and adds 20'' bonus.
- Stage 15. Rodriguez attacks and get 2nd. He puts 25'' + to the favorites, including gaining 39'' on Hesjedal.
- Stage 17. Rodriguez wins the stage coming from behind on a bunch sprint against the favorites. He dedicates the victory to Tondo.
- Stage 20. Rodriguez attacks and he's able to gain 13'' on Hesjedal. Previously, in Montirolo he attacked the favorites 3 times and they responded.
- Stage 21. He finishes 47'' behind Hesjedal, yet he shows how much he's improved his TT skills.


you even forgot the stage Ventoso won (?), when he attacked on a speedbump with Moreno leading him out, and a strong attack on stage 14 to cervinia, nearly bridging Hesjedal until Scarponi brought the main group back to his wheel.

but hey, what a coward eh :rolleyes: Hesjedal was just stronger, simple as that. A 2nd place was the best purito could get out of it.
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