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Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

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15 Jun 2013 07:19

movingtarget wrote:C'mon there will always be excuses ! It's just that some people can't accept that their favourite riders can be beaten and instead of accepting it there will be some conspiracy theory or whatever. Or plaster on the knee etc... I hope there is no bad luck and the top GC riders fight it out but for some of them the best laid plans will be upset. It's the nature of the sport. The sooner people accept that the better. Just being able to recover and ride through any injury or illness for three weeks is hard enough let alone winning the race. The less talented riders are just happy to get to Paris.


You don't agree he is in bad shape this year? Because you don't think there should be excuses? You think we should only look at the results and not at the circumstances?

If so, lol, Alberto will lose over 12 minutes to Froome because he lost over 4 in Dauphiné. We shouldn't look at the circumstances and try to make excuses. Lol.

If Froome beats Alberto this year and it is clear Alberto isn't near his best, I won't hail Froome as the best GC rider of this generation. Period. Call that excuses, I call it common sense.
"The second place is not good."
The great Alberto Contador :p
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15 Jun 2013 07:22

What a jealous outburst. Lol, Fleur hopefully Froome doesn't need your permission. Alright, let's put it this way, the 2013 Tour can have other deserved legit winners but Contador? ... Deadlock question.
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15 Jun 2013 07:29

airstream wrote:What a jealous outburst. Lol, Fleur hopefully Froome doesn't need your permission. Alright, let's put it this way, the 2013 Tour can have other deserved legit winners but Contador?


Am I too "greedy" once again :rolleyes:

And stop calling me fleur. You're not a friend nor do I like you so call me by my username.
"The second place is not good."
The great Alberto Contador :p
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15 Jun 2013 07:35

LaFlorecita wrote:Am I too "greedy" once again :rolleyes:

And stop calling me fleur. You're not a friend nor do I like you so call me by my username.


You are totally out of common sense. If Froome wins the Tour it will be since he's the best. If you like to hail one and disparage others you should try to reason globally. If I were you say I'd wonder whether someone took the 2007 Tour because he was the best or because there wasn't Basso and Ras was kicked away from the race.
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15 Jun 2013 07:39

airstream wrote:You are totally out of common sense. If Froome wins the Tour it will be since he's the best. If you like to hail one and disparage others you should try to reason globally. If I were you say I'd wonder whether someone took the 2007 Tour because he was the best or because there wasn't Basso and Ras was kicked away from the race.


Airstream I believe your hatred of everything Contador affects your reading and interpretation skills.
"The second place is not good."
The great Alberto Contador :p
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15 Jun 2013 07:41

airstream wrote:Cmon it's not trolling. Some young fan just shares his assumptions. It's ok.


It's just obnoxious to present assumptions as fact.
Especially if he doesn't use paragraphs...
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15 Jun 2013 07:50

yeah but if they are better than the other gc riders (who also are on form) then they are truly deserving. froome has been racing against people who aren't on form so you can hardly say froome is the best based just on the results. yeah contador should be fitter at the tour than the dauphine so should lose nowhere near as much time/could even gain time?
- he lost 2 and a half minutes to froome in the tt
4 seconds 1st mtn stage
11 seconds second mtn stage
1 minute and a half third mtn stage
you can hardly say froome is better based on the legitimate reasons which aren't excuses: contador had the worst tt of his career so its unlikely his tt's will be that bad, was working on the front for rogers and had to sit up for rogers. im not saying froome didn't deserve to win the dauphine because he did, he outsprinted contador and as far as I can tell he would have even out sprinted contador if he was peaking, he wouldn't have beaten him in the tt. but the time gained in the sprint would be enough to win overall
comparing data from previous years where contador has won a gt, he is nowhere near that form. if froome were to race an on form contador who was putting out similar power to his previous peaks then based on all the data froome has no chance of winning. to beat an on form contador he'd have to tt better than cancellara and climb better than pantani which just aint happening. ok so I don't argue froome could podium but against a peaking contador and schleck he'd narrowly manage third. if froome wins against someone who is peaking then he deserves to win, other wise it doesn't really count imo
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15 Jun 2013 07:50

airstream wrote:Cmon it's not trolling. Some young fan just shares his assumptions. It's ok. I just don't think Froome won the races at 100%, probably it was only about 70-80%. In addition if Contador had shown such a winning swing it could've added him only more favoritism. In Froome's situation we allegedly have the opposite thing. It's not very logical.



No one can't because a rider's goal is to win the race, not to show 100% of current capabities. It's 2 different things.



hehe, following this logic riders who have more titles can lose only if they are unfit... No man, best riders change each other and we are on the edge of another change this year.


I think Froome may be close to optimum fitness I.e. top form. However he has not yet been required to demonstrate that form. Lets face it, he won the Dauphine with ease and looked to have a fair bit more in the tank. He was dragging Porte for a few km and had it been a Tour stage where he was required to win, he would have done so with ease. Froome showed used 80% of his capabilities and at that the rest were nowhere to be seen
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15 Jun 2013 07:58

he didn't look like he was taking it easy on the mountain stages he won and podiumed in and the tt? he demonstrated his form in the tt where it is needed, in the sprint between him and contador and when he was working for porte so yes he has shown his form. and its as simple as this: do you think froome can tt better than cancellara and climb better than pantani?? because I certainly don't and that is what is required to beat contador when he is on form by the same amounts he currently is doing, and which you say will stay the same amounts
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15 Jun 2013 08:10

nick101 wrote:he didn't look like he was taking it easy on the mountain stages he won and podiumed in and the tt? he demonstrated his form in the tt where it is needed, in the sprint between him and contador and when he was working for porte so yes he has shown his form. and its as simple as this: do you think froome can tt better than cancellara and climb better than pantani?? because I certainly dont


I agree , Besides (and i may be wrong here ) wasn't it Sky who said that their training methods involve keeping their leaders in good shape for the whole year ?

The decisive point for this TDF IMO is not Froome ' shape which i believe is close to his top shape. But what's more of a question mark is whether Contador will reach his "career peak" or not. Since Vuelta 2012 , he has never shown that he is capable of that. And that may result in total Froome domination.
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15 Jun 2013 08:27

I have a big question mark over andy. the rate at which he is progressing is massive. 1st stage in the tds he counldn't keep up, 2nd he managed to just, 3rd he didn't seem in too much difficulty and on the mountain stage he was one of the best climbers in comparison to being dropped on the mtf. if he keeps progressing at this rate he would definitely reach his best.

now if an on form schleck were to race against froome, then he would narrowly win because the time gained in the mountains over froome would be slightly more than what he would lose in the tt's. I don't discount contador off form either as it's more than possible that he could beat froome especially if the Spaniards conspire against him like at the vuelta. theres so many variables that could spell the disaster for skys one dimensional tactic that it could be a repeat of tirreno but the weather will probably be good so that is probably irrelevant. if strategically contador is better then he won't need the legs anyway.
2008 tdf carlos sastre was only fifth strongest but out smarted everyone. cadel was by far the strongest that year but on the alpe he couldn't chase sastre down as he would bring the other riders back to sastre also. the effort of closing the 2 min gap down would make him tired and open to attacks.
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15 Jun 2013 08:37

Afrank wrote:I'd say his climbing this year is better than the last couple years at least.


What about the year before that?
The Hitch: Winner 2013 Vuelta cq game. Winner, Velorooms prediction game 2012, 2013. 2nd all time cq rankings.
The Father of Clean Cycling, Christophe Bassons wrote:When I look at cycling today, I get the impression that history is repeating itself: riders who are supposed to be rouleurs are climbing passes at the front of the race, and those who are supposed to be climbers are riding time trials at more than 50 kilometres per hour.

The story is beginning again, just as it did 14 years ago


journalist with integrity.
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15 Jun 2013 08:39

Airstream, you obviously have nothing constructive to do this morning other than annoy my friend Fleur.. ;) xx

LaFlorecita wrote:You don't agree he is in bad shape this year? Because you don't think there should be excuses? You think we should only look at the results and not at the circumstances?


By that thought Airstream means that Lemond shouldn't have used the shooting incident to miss out on a couple of tours.....:rolleyes:

If so, lol, Alberto will lose over 12 minutes to Froome because he lost over 4 in Dauphiné. We shouldn't look at the circumstances and try to make excuses. Lol.


Inference and suggestion....the trolls way of prognositcation. You can say that Andy might lose 1;30 to Evans in the Dauphine ITT then he'll lose 3 minutes during the same ITT during the Tour. Andy can't TT, Bertie on form is a cracking TT rider, not the best but damn good you cannot infer a similar outcome

If Froome beats Alberto this year and it is clear Alberto isn't near his best, I won't hail Froome as the best GC rider of this generation. Period. Call that excuses, I call it common sense.


Winning one GT (even by default) does not make you a great, just look at Andy... ;) Winning two or three with a massive palmares of other wins makes it better but there's more to being great. Yet again Airstream is trying to bluster his way to painting Contador fans as the spawn of the devil (no not Didi) by confused logic and inference.

Tell you what Airstream....if you can keep schtum about Bertie between now and the end of the tour I'll put a Team Frandy avatar up for a month.

Alberto Contador is a GREAT GC Rider....... Chris Froome might be, IF he racks up a few wins....Andy Schleck never will be
I'm in shape...Round is a shape
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15 Jun 2013 08:41

nick101 wrote:this: do you think froome can tt better than cancellara and climb better than pantani?? because I certainly don't and that is what is required to beat contador when he is on form by the same amounts he currently is doing, and which you say will stay the same amounts

Since Contador neither is climbing better than Pantani and timetrialing better than Cancellara I dont think its required for Froome to do that either.

And by the way all the bull**** of who is on what precentage (not only meant to you) is actually quit silly. I know it started with Contador stating something, but I can assurare you thats its based on emossions and not science. And to estimate how good Froome are aint possible either because we dont know have good he can be. And even if we knew, it is still diffucult to calculate.

As a example, if Contador is in 75% shape. Does this mean that he in 100% shape could have ride the Dauphine time-trial in 56km/h?
(Martin who won it, ride in almost 53Km/h)
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15 Jun 2013 08:46

HCl+HN03 wrote:As a example, if Contador is in 75% shape. Does this mean that he in 100% shape could have ride the Dauphine time-trial in 56km/h?


No..... as an athlete reaches peak fitness the percentage improvement becomes less but harder to achieve, ie improvement is not linear
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15 Jun 2013 08:48

2011 was his best climbing so far and he isn't climbing much worse. he put out 1700VAM on long climbs and is currently putting out the same so hasn't really gotten better, others have just gotten worse. there are numerous riders that could beat froome if they were peaking but they haven't. evans, andy and contador all could. as for andy not being great I disagree with that as he set the third fastest time on the zoncolan so that surely counts for something plus his attacks on the tourmalet and izoard were certainly some of the most exciting in recent years.i never said contador can climb better than pantani or tt better than cancellara. contador has proven on verbier he can climb better than pantani on anything less than 20 mintues based on raw data. a riders percentage is exponential i.e. it would be easier to go from 70% to 80% than 80% to 90%. yes but just because he's climbing better doesn't mean he'll win. and I also said that if contador was climbing at his usual best then that'd be much better than froome, I never said froome had to be that good to beat an unfit contador. look at evans vs satre at the tdf and nibali vs froome at tirreno. tactics are important also not jut legs
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15 Jun 2013 08:49

Siriuscat wrote:No..... as an athlete reaches peak fitness the percentage improvement becomes less but harder to achieve, ie improvement is not linear


Of course I know that, I was just trying to make a point. Its impossible to calculate the so called precentages, because noone knows what the function looks like.
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15 Jun 2013 08:52

HCl+HN03 wrote:Of course I know that, I was just trying to make point. Its impossible to calculate the so called precentages, because know what the function looks like.


Soz....too many Airstream posts... ;)

I suspect that given enough parameters and data it would be possible to model fitness levels based on wattage output, actually the maths wouldn't be too complicated....no point asking me though, i'm a physicist!
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15 Jun 2013 08:52

nick101 wrote:verbier wasn't necessarily his career peak. he was then 26 so still has room to develop. contador has achieved similar power to that on climbs once or twice per season: 2007 - plateau de beille and the peyrsord; 2008 - angliru, plan de corones and Fuentes de invierno, 2011 - etna and 2012 - ancares.

strongly doubt in rightness of it but ok
I have no idea whether he will reach that power this year or not all I know is that if he does he will beat froome :)

no one knows it.
I really do get sick of skys one dimensional tactics at races


we got that at once.
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15 Jun 2013 08:54

Sirius cat calm down. Though, I can not help wondering why you continue to appeal to such dumb and uninformed forum member like me.

Nick101 wrote: if froome wins against someone who is peaking then he deserves to win, other wise it doesn't really count imo

how are you gonna to find out whether froome is better than them or they are off form, if froome wins the race?
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