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Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

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15 Jun 2013 12:55

movingtarget wrote:I don't call it commonsense to hail Froome as the best rider of his generation when he has not won a GT yet. Only mad people would suggest that, even if he wins the Tour. I would not read too much into the Dauphine. To me Contador looked like he was training apart from the TT where he was inexplicably bad and the sinus issue may have had something to do with it and on the first mountain stage which Froome won, Contador tested the waters and was beaten fair and square. after that he was just helping Mick Rogers hold his podium place. If Contador is beaten in the Tour and admits that he was not ill or injured well we have to assume he was beaten by a better rider at the time. It's funny that often when riders are interviewed they say that they did not have the legs or that others were too good for them, not many admit to losing because of injury or illness. The fans are completely different and often see things that even the riders say are not true. Contador has not had any serious illness or falls or injuries since he won the Vuelta so if he he is beaten in the Tour then in my eyes he has been fairly beaten. Does not matter whether people think he is not at his best or past his best that is irrelevant. It's all about what happens in the three weeks. If Contador can win a difficult Vuelta on a limited preparation he should be good in the Tour unless there is a serious reason for it which we have not heard about so far.




I think it is incredibly premature to call/hail Froome as the greatest rider in his generation--especially since his generation includes Contador. Palamares matter. He needs to rack up a couple of GT victories before we even can begin that conversation
"The truth is when I race, it's 100% me" Alberto Contador

"I have no intention of being a conformist in this race. Not in the slightest" Alberto Contador

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15 Jun 2013 15:36

nick101 wrote:yeah but if they are better than the other gc riders (who also are on form) then they are truly deserving. froome has been racing against people who aren't on form so you can hardly say froome is the best based just on the results. yeah contador should be fitter at the tour than the dauphine so should lose nowhere near as much time/could even gain time?
- he lost 2 and a half minutes to froome in the tt
4 seconds 1st mtn stage
11 seconds second mtn stage
1 minute and a half third mtn stage
you can hardly say froome is better based on the legitimate reasons which aren't excuses: contador had the worst tt of his career so its unlikely his tt's will be that bad, was working on the front for rogers and had to sit up for rogers. im not saying froome didn't deserve to win the dauphine because he did, he outsprinted contador and as far as I can tell he would have even out sprinted contador if he was peaking, he wouldn't have beaten him in the tt. but the time gained in the sprint would be enough to win overall
comparing data from previous years where contador has won a gt, he is nowhere near that form. if froome were to race an on form contador who was putting out similar power to his previous peaks then based on all the data froome has no chance of winning. to beat an on form contador he'd have to tt better than cancellara and climb better than pantani which just aint happening. ok so I don't argue froome could podium but against a peaking contador and schleck he'd narrowly manage third. if froome wins against someone who is peaking then he deserves to win, other wise it doesn't really count imo


Going by that logic there aren't a lot of wins that count. It's very difficult to tell if a rider is in there peak or not. And even if Contador can't beat Froome we can't really tell if it's because Contador wasn't in form or if Froome was simply the better rider.

Personally, if Froome wins I don't think it will be due to a case of an out of form Contador.
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15 Jun 2013 15:37

The Hitch wrote:What about the year before that?


The years before his sudden and unexpected rise? Yes, he's ten times the climber he he was since then.
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15 Jun 2013 15:39

Red Rick wrote:Nick101, you´re like an anti/airstream, exept his posts have better arguments and are less tiring to read.


+1, Please at least use some paragraphing Nick101. :o (and not every post has to be a essay).
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15 Jun 2013 16:13

Afrank wrote:Going by that logic there aren't a lot of wins that count. It's very difficult to tell if a rider is in there peak or not. And even if Contador can't beat Froome we can't really tell if it's because Contador wasn't in form or if Froome was simply the better rider.

Personally, if Froome wins I don't think it will be due to a case of an out of form Contador.


We'll see. Either it'll be very close or Froome will dominate. I don't know what will happen. Either way, I don't think Alberto will be at his best. He's been underperforming all season.
"The second place is not good."
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15 Jun 2013 16:26

movingtarget wrote:I don't call it commonsense to hail Froome as the best rider of his generation when he has not won a GT yet. Only mad people would suggest that, even if he wins the Tour. I would not read too much into the Dauphine. To me Contador looked like he was training ... If Contador is beaten in the Tour and admits that he was not ill or injured well we have to assume he was beaten by a better rider at the time. It's funny that often when riders are interviewed they say that they did not have the legs or that others were too good for them, not many admit to losing because of injury or illness. The fans are completely different and often see things that even the riders say are not true.


I agree with the first sentences. Froome obviously has the potential to win the Tour and he shows signs that he is stronger than AC on the climbs and in the TT. But it is not fixed as long as he’s not standing on the podium in Paris, clad in yellow. However anyone with his record of this spring would be considered to be the outright favourite in the Tour. AC on the other hand did not show any signs of his old form (remeber there were times when he - ridiculously - won virtually every race he entered). Not encouraging for him. This adds to a trend, because in the 2011 Tour, a bunch of guys was stronger than him, last years Vuelta was only won against guys like Valverde and Rodriguez (and a very tired Froome) without being impressive. His overrated performance in Italy 2011 was against a field of guys who were either out of form or not even nesr to a top performance in a Tour. This leads to the finding that a victory of AC in France would be - a possible and realistic - surprise.

The rest of the quote seems funny to me - AC usually never accepts that he has been beaten by guys who were simply stronger than him. He alsways comes up with some lame excuse... One more reason among plenty others why he cannot be considered to be a Champion.
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15 Jun 2013 16:37

Lol Si Ap long time no see.. refreshing to read your hater nonsense again.
"The second place is not good."
The great Alberto Contador :p
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15 Jun 2013 16:47

Florecita misses a common massive hook from Sip1984 :p
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15 Jun 2013 18:40

well, well, Contador performance this year is really spark a lot of debate, argument and speculation here. I'm enjoying myself reading the post varying from the pessimistic down right to hopeless suicidal, to inspirational heroism super hero delusion, to over confidence, over the top, right to cult worship post :D

In less than 3 weeks, we shall see what song the fat french lady choose to sing: "God save the Queen or God save the King" :p
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15 Jun 2013 19:05

Jelantik wrote:well, well, Contador performance this year is really spark a lot of debate, argument and speculation here. I'm enjoying myself reading the post varying from the pessimistic down right to hopeless suicidal, to inspirational heroism super hero delusion, to over confidence, over the top, right to cult worship post :D

In less than 3 weeks, we shall see what song the fat french lady choose to sing: "God save the Queen or God save the King" :p


I agree Jelantik :D

I'm crossing my fingers ;)
"The second place is not good."
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15 Jun 2013 20:19

SiAp1984 wrote:The rest of the quote seems funny to me - AC usually never accepts that he has been beaten by guys who were simply stronger than him. He alsways comes up with some lame excuse... One more reason among plenty others why he cannot be considered to be a Champion.


That's by far the dumbest statement i've read in a while
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15 Jun 2013 23:44

SiAp1984 wrote:Froome obviously has the potential to win the Tour and he shows signs that he is stronger than AC on the climbs and in the TT. But it is not fixed as long as he’s not standing on the podium in Paris, clad in yellow. However anyone with his record of this spring would be considered to be the outright favourite in the Tour. AC on the other hand did not show any signs of his old form (remeber there were times when he - ridiculously - won virtually every race he entered). Not encouraging for him. This adds to a trend, because in the 2011 Tour, a bunch of guys was stronger than him, last years Vuelta was only won against guys like Valverde and Rodriguez (and a very tired Froome) without being impressive. His overrated performance in Italy 2011 was against a field of guys who were either out of form or not even nesr to a top performance in a Tour. This leads to the finding that a victory of AC in France would be - a possible and realistic - surprise.


actually I think you're wrong there. at the 2011 giro contador was nearly as strong as the 2009 tdf based on his data. nibali and scarponi were climbing the best I've ever seen them at a race - nibali even chased contador down on the zoncolan. apart from last years gt's rodriguez was the most consistent I've seen him at a gt also. at the 2012 vuelta rodriguez and valverde were both probably the strongest I've ever seen them. The reason why froome is stronger than contador atm is because froome is fit while contador is unfit.. not necessarily because he is purely better than contador based on abilites
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15 Jun 2013 23:58

airstream wrote:What a jealous outburst. Lol, Fleur hopefully Froome doesn't need your permission. Alright, let's put it this way, the 2013 Tour can have other deserved legit winners but Contador? ... Deadlock question.


...and your posts are completely objective and lacking bias? This after you just admit that your reasoning for not rooting for a rider's success is strongly influenced not by the rider himself but by the attitude of some of that rider's fans? Oh you are so much better than LaFlo.:rolleyes:
"It's a little bit scarey when Contador attacks." Tommie Voeckler
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16 Jun 2013 00:29

nick101 wrote:pretty much agree with you there about froome, and contador at the dauphine. froome would probably have beaten contador on that stage regardless of his form. if contador doesn't have the legs then generally he doesn't deserve to win unless he can come up with a genius tactic like sastre or schleck have :D


What genius tactic did Andy have that resulted in an actual victory?
"It's a little bit scarey when Contador attacks." Tommie Voeckler
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16 Jun 2013 01:28

he sent several team mates up into the break, then attacked on the izoard. he then bridged up and then they helped him until the final 5-10kms of the galibier. he gained 2 minutes on evans who was working hard to try and chase him down on the galibier. if he had just attacked on the galibier evans would have either caught him or he would have gained under a minute. so with the tactic he used, he gained double the time on evans than what he could've with his normal attacks. it obviously didn't give him the win, but he got much closer to it; evans would've beaten him by nearly 3 minutes as opposed to a minute and a half.
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16 Jun 2013 05:03

Angliru wrote:...and your posts are completely objective and lacking bias? This after you just admit that your reasoning for not rooting for a rider's success is strongly influenced not by the rider himself but by the attitude of some of that rider's fans? Oh you are so much better than LaFlo.:rolleyes:


at least I find any rider's win completely legit and deserved and never settle in other subforum to whine about how unfair and ridiculous other rider's victory is.
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16 Jun 2013 07:33

airstream wrote:at least I find any rider's win completely legit and deserved and never settle in other subforum to whine about how unfair and ridiculous other rider's victory is.


I thought airstream never went personal, is there nothing legit about you? ;)
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16 Jun 2013 07:34

airstream wrote:at least I find any rider's win completely legit and deserved and never settle in other subforum to whine about how unfair and ridiculous other rider's victory is.


You do settle in another subforum to whine about how a certain cyclist needs to go to jail and needs to be shot in the head. Yes you are so much better mr. Airstream :rolleyes:
"The second place is not good."
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16 Jun 2013 09:59

LaFlorecita wrote:Lol Si Ap long time no see.. refreshing to read your hater nonsense again.


Instead of hiding behind "Contador hater comments" what are your thoughts on your hero. Will he win the Tour ? Can he win the Tour ? If not why can't he win the Tour ? And don't just say he has bad form. Do you actually have a view or is Contador simply beyond criticism in your eyes ? I agreed with some of Si App's comments and some points were valid ones. The last one about Contador always having excuses, I disagree with but some fans always have excuses.
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16 Jun 2013 10:07

movingtarget wrote:Instead of hiding behind "Contador hater comments" what are your thoughts on your hero. Will he win the Tour ? Can he win the Tour ? If not why can't he win the Tour ? And don't just say he has bad form. Do you actually have a view or is Contador simply beyond criticism in your eyes ? I agreed with some of Si App's comments and some points were valid ones. The last one about Contador always having excuses, I disagree with but some fans always have excuses.


My view is that Alberto won't win and can't win as long as he is in this **** form and that has been my view this entire season. If he improves maybe he has a chance but I think he still won't win. Only if he is even better than in 2009 but that won't happen.
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