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Peter Sagan discussion thread.

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Peter Sagan discussion thread.

10 Jun 2012 11:03

:eek: can't believe there isn't one yet.
Well it is now! Discuss!
glassmoon
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10 Jun 2012 11:07

Peaking too soon....
brilleaben
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10 Jun 2012 11:07

What is certain is that today will once and for all clear up all the uncertainty over Sagan's climbing.

He has never had a real reason to go for it on the steep stuff yet with the yellow jersey on his shoulders and no Nibali to help, he surely will want to give it his all.
I am a bit apprehensive after ATOC that he may not have it in him but whenever he has really wanted to go for it. (TDS last year even out of the break) he has, I dont expect to see him in the top5 but I am desperately hoping he can prove himself the new Kelly with at least a top10.
User avatar Froome19
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10 Jun 2012 11:07

brilleaben wrote:Peaking too soon....

more like peaking whole season :rolleyes:
or even better: isn't peaking yet at all :cool:
glassmoon
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10 Jun 2012 11:09

brilleaben wrote:Peaking too soon....


No he generally has a very strong base level and he was very strong last year in this race and then again in Poland and again at the Vuelta.

Also if you are looking at his short efforts then that is no indication of his peak as there isnt much corralation between him going well whilst sprinting and going well on the harder stuff.
User avatar Froome19
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10 Jun 2012 11:25

Of course he's not peaking too soon, it was just a fantastic and very original joke. But I wonder what he will focus on perfecting first. Will he be a sprinter, cobbler or puncheur? Or just all of them.
brilleaben
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10 Jun 2012 11:34

Froome19 wrote:What is certain is that today will once and for all clear up all the uncertainty over Sagan's climbing.

He has never had a real reason to go for it on the steep stuff yet with the yellow jersey on his shoulders and no Nibali to help, he surely will want to give it his all.
I am a bit apprehensive after ATOC that he may not have it in him but whenever he has really wanted to go for it. (TDS last year even out of the break) he has, I dont expect to see him in the top5 but I am desperately hoping he can prove himself the new Kelly with at least a top10.


He will be saving it for stages 3,4,5,6. I guess he put up some muscles since Cali. He looked really big and strong yesterday. In sprints he will be faster than ever. But obviously climbing will be a tragedy. Really, don't expect him today in top50.
Lance Armstrong
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10 Jun 2012 11:40

brilleaben wrote:Of course he's not peaking too soon, it was just a fantastic and very original joke. But I wonder what he will focus on perfecting first. Will he be a sprinter, cobbler or puncheur? Or just all of them.


Well he already is one of the best Puncher's in the world as shown by his AGR perfomance same with his cobbles as shown by his Flanders perfomance and sprinting with his Vuelta perfomance.

He is not the best in any of those disciplines but he is certainly close.
User avatar Froome19
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10 Jun 2012 11:40

Lance Armstrong wrote:He will be saving it for stages 3,4,5,6. I guess he put up some muscles since Cali. He looked really big and strong yesterday. In sprints he will be faster than ever. But obviously climbing will be a tragedy. Really, don't expect him today in top50.


Generally you would expect a rider such as Sagan to be a bad climber. But history shows he is fairly decent at that also, i think he will be able to put in quite a good performance.
User avatar Marcus135
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10 Jun 2012 11:42

Lance Armstrong wrote:He will be saving it for stages 3,4,5,6. I guess he put up some muscles since Cali. He looked really big and strong yesterday. In sprints he will be faster than ever. But obviously climbing will be a tragedy. Really, don't expect him today in top50.


One steep climb?

Expect him to win.
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User avatar Panda Claws
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10 Jun 2012 15:57

He's showed numerous times he can sprint the best and win.
He showed in Tirreno he can go head to head with the GC guys and beat them in a uphill finish.
He showed at Big Bear Lake in the 2010 Tour of California that he can survive the climbs to take the win.
He showed this spring that he can be a contender for the classics.
And now he has showed he can beat the best in a time trial

Sagan won't be the next kelly, he will be the next Merckx!
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10 Jun 2012 16:00

Afrank wrote:

He's showed numerous times he can sprint the best and win. Check
He showed in Tirreno he can go head to head with the GC guys and beat them in a uphill finish. Check.
He showed this spring that he can be a contender for the classics. Check
And now he has showed he can beat the best in a time trial Check
He showed at Big Bear Lake in the 2010 Tour of California that he can survive the climbs to take the win. Not so much





_____________
DominicDecoco
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10 Jun 2012 16:09

[He's showed numerous times he can sprint the best and win. Nope
He showed in Tirreno he can go head to head with the GC guys and beat them in a uphill finish. yes
He showed at Big Bear Lake in the 2010 Tour of California that he can survive the climbs to take the win. Nope
He showed this spring that he can be a contender for the classics. Yes
And now he has showed he can beat the best in a time trial Nope
User avatar Richeypen
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10 Jun 2012 16:11

He is the next sean kelly.
No way will he become like the cannibal though unless he drops his weight.
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User avatar dlwssonic
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10 Jun 2012 16:18

Sagan is extremely overrated as a climber. He's a great puncheur, but he's never shown anything in the mountains. And no, I don't count getting over the top of a HC climb in a slowly paced 15 man breakaway group (including climbing prodigy Salerno) as a particularly impressive climbing feat.

He's massively impressive in hills, sprints and prologues, but when he both lacks the ability to do a decent long ITT and climb a mountain I don't see how anyone can consider him to be a likely future GT contender. Not that it matters, because he'll certainly pick up a couple of monuments, WCs and Olympic medals.
maltiv
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10 Jun 2012 16:42

Richeypen wrote:[He's showed numerous times he can sprint the best and win. Nope
He showed in Tirreno he can go head to head with the GC guys and beat them in a uphill finish. yes
He showed at Big Bear Lake in the 2010 Tour of California that he can survive the climbs to take the win. Nope
He showed this spring that he can be a contender for the classics. Yes
And now he has showed he can beat the best in a time trial Nope


He has beaten Boonen, Goss, Hushovd, Petacchi, Freire in a sprint, all pretty good sprinters. He hasn't beaten Cav yet, but he will in the tour :D

I'll give you the Big Bear Lake, it was the only hill stage that he won that I could think of off the top of my head. Another one 2011 tour de suisse stage 3.

You don't consider Cancellara one of the best? Even if it is was a short prologue he did beat a 4 time world time trial champion in it.
User avatar Afrank
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10 Jun 2012 16:55

Afrank wrote:He has beaten Boonen, Goss, Hushovd, Petacchi, Freire in a sprint, all pretty good sprinters. He hasn't beaten Cav yet, but he will in the tour :D

I'll give you the Big Bear Lake, it was the only hill stage that he won that I could think of off the top of my head. Another one 2011 tour de suisse stage 3.

You don't consider Cancellara one of the best? Even if it is was a short prologue he did beat a 4 time world time trial champion in it.


He has shown that he is the fastest (barring Goss) of the guys who can get over climbs, thats a long way from beating the best sprinters.


As for TTing, beating Canc in a prolouge when he is coming back from injury and not inform is not showing that he can beat the best TTing. 27 riders beat the current World Champ in the P-N prolouge, does that mean that Jérémy Roy, Simon Gerrans etc have shown that they can beat the best TTing?
User avatar Richeypen
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10 Jun 2012 19:08

Richeypen wrote:As for TTing, beating Canc in a prolouge when he is coming back from injury and not inform is not showing that he can beat the best TTing. 27 riders beat the current World Champ in the P-N prolouge, does that mean that Jérémy Roy, Simon Gerrans etc have shown that they can beat the best TTing?


He was a handful of seconds behind the time Cancellara did last year in the prologue, same route. He's already one of the best in prologues out there.

Long ITTs on the other hand, not quite there.
User avatar SafeBet
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10 Jun 2012 19:14

SafeBet wrote:He was a handful of seconds behind the time Cancellara did last year in the prologue, same route. He's already one of the best in prologues out there.

Long ITTs on the other hand, not quite there.


Prologues are a completely different matter to proper ITTs. Even Cav has won one against the likes of Martin, Wiggins, Pinotti etc

A rider with Sagan's power is bound to be a very good Prologue rider.
User avatar Richeypen
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10 Jun 2012 19:15

Richeypen wrote:He has shown that he is the fastest (barring Goss) of the guys who can get over climbs, thats a long way from beating the best sprinters.


As for TTing, beating Canc in a prolouge when he is coming back from injury and not inform is not showing that he can beat the best TTing. 27 riders beat the current World Champ in the P-N prolouge, does that mean that Jérémy Roy, Simon Gerrans etc have shown that they can beat the best TTing?


I doubt he is much better than EBH in the sprints
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