Log in:  

Register

Bartagnolli and Blood Passport

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

Bartagnolli and Blood Passport

27 Jun 2012 15:11

Retirement announced:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/bertagnolli-snared-by-biological-passport

Is this just a smokescreen from the UCI to chase a lesser rider as a result of overlooking irregularities in more prominent riders in recent years?

Plus, obviously he doped.
peterst6906
Junior Member
 
Posts: 680
Joined: 30 Jan 2011 11:25

27 Jun 2012 15:25

peterst6906 wrote:Retirement announced:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/bertagnolli-snared-by-biological-passport

Is this just a smokescreen from the UCI to chase a lesser rider as a result of overlooking irregularities in more prominent riders in recent years?

Plus, obviously he doped.


convenient timing and transparent attempt to spare Lampre even more shame.
joepa

"There is a proper dignity and proportion to be observed in the performance of every act of life"

[email="joe@joepapp.com"]* email me[/email]
* read my ([color=Red]old) blog[/color]
* visit my website
* read my ([color=Red]new) blog[/color]
User avatar joe_papp
Junior Member
 
Posts: 1,267
Joined: 13 May 2009 15:57
Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA

27 Jun 2012 15:26

peterst6906 wrote:Retirement announced:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/bertagnolli-snared-by-biological-passport

Is this just a smokescreen from the UCI to chase a lesser rider as a result of overlooking irregularities in more prominent riders in recent years?

Plus, obviously he doped.


More to the point he was't actually caught by a positive test or the Bio passport. it was until CONI were investigating him for his links to Ferrari did the UCI decide there was a case and found the bio data to be "suspicious".

When Armstrong's 2010 data comes out from around his Flanders ride guys like Bertagnolli will just shake their head in amazement. Talk about Star-Chambers!
User avatar thehog
Senior Member
 
Posts: 16,686
Joined: 27 Jul 2009 20:00

27 Jun 2012 16:17

He's a mid-level rider by my reckoning. Probably started doping very early in his career (started with Saeco...lots of 'pros' to learn from).
User avatar Willy_Voet
Junior Member
 
Posts: 680
Joined: 02 May 2009 01:24
Location: Norte Havana

27 Jun 2012 17:13

In a further statement released later on Wednesday afternoon, Lampre-ISD distanced itself from Bertagnolli, claiming that the contested blood values on his biological passport date from 2008 and 2009, before he joined the team.

The squad underlined that it had noted “with surprise that […]the potential violations dated back to the period 2008 and 2009, when he was not in the blue-fuchsia team.” Furthermore, Lampre-ISD noted that “no anomalies were detected in all the blood exams performed within the internal monitoring program that the team performed in cooperation with Mapei Sport Center in 2011 and 2012 (when Bertagnolli was a member of Lampre-ISD) and in the biological passport exams that were performed in the same period.”

Bertagnolli joined Lampre-ISD from Androni Giocattoli ahead of the 2011 season


Could it be that Lampre-ISD (can) spend(s) more money on an 'internal correction' program, to ensure that their riders' values don't fluctuate too much, or exceed their 'natural' or 'biological' parameters? Did they teach Bertagnolli how to do it properly, or they steered him and corrected him when his values were off?

What other riders/teams are affiliated with the Mapei Sport Center?
User avatar Bala Verde
Senior Member
 
Posts: 7,119
Joined: 10 Mar 2009 02:32
Location: Chapel Hill, NC

27 Jun 2012 17:22

thehog wrote:...When Armstrong's 2010 data comes out from around his Flanders ride guys like Bertagnolli will just shake their head in amazement. Talk about Star-Chambers!


i'm genuinely conflicted when it comes to the biopass and alleged-corruption in the UCI. I know I get a lot of hate still from mostly anonymous/unnamed people who don't like me or what I've done (even though I doubt they've ever met me), but I really am in a very unique position that is different than most of the sport's stakeholders (much of this might have to do with the fact that I'm not earning any significant income from the sport right now). It's one with an almost-360-degree viewpoint (lol - no doubt made possible in part by all of the interaction I have w/ you very sophisticated fans of the sport - and some not-so-sophisticated ones).

So regarding something like biopassport, the UCI, LA and anti-doping, I am conflicted because I know from direct conversations w/ those at the highest level of anti-doping (including perhaps the most well-known to have sat on the biopass committee) that they were not permitted to declare/deem "suspicious"/warranting official action certain riders' passport data, but when they could rule they did and that feedback wasn't ignored (but still the white whale was off-limits).

The UCI does do more than any other international federation to fight doping, and they are at the forefront scientifically and logistically such that if someone tried to implement this system and carry-out these controls (w/ attendant penalties) in a sport where there was actual real money involved, they'd get whacked and end-up sleeping with the fishes.

And yet there's the allegation that LA was able to buy the UCI's help in covering-up a positive, something that I unfortunately also know from personal experience could be possible.

Yet I agree with McQuaid - who was willing to admit publicly on the record that the things Landis alleged "could've happened under his predecessor's watch b/c it was a different time" (paraphrasing) - that the culture of doping in pro cycling is under genuine attack and that doping has shifted from the macro level of the team down to the mico (dose! lol) level of the rider, who is often having to act w/o the assistance or support of the DS - unlike during 1991-2010.

Yet the reward from doping at the top level is still huge and the chances of being caught in an analytic trap alone are still small for those super-elites who can afford the sophisticated, individualized doping program provided by alchemists like Ferrari and Cecchini.

In the end, the bio passport is a semi-effective deterrent that can still be manipulated and gamed by those with the resources to do so, which means that the cases likely to come directly from it will be low-level riders. However, the passport has provided actionable intelligence, indicating suspicious activity that's led to targeted testing that's snared at least 3x as many riders as have come "directly" from the bio passport. But when certain riders' bio passports have basically been "diplomatic" and protected them from further scrutiny/threat of sanctions, it compromises the integrity of the entire program.

Yet at least cycling is doing something that is still unimaginable in other sports. And it results in guys like CVV claiming that they should be trusted when they say cycling is definitively cleaner than it was before. Yet they're not willing to admit to what they were doing before, let alone share any details, so how - in light of all the other bad signs - are we supposed to sit back quietly and say, "ok, we trust you."?

And yet complaining in the press that there's still doping in cycling, that the bio passport isn't as effective as it could be, that only smaller fish get caught, blah blah blah...that doesn't necessarily help the situation.
joepa

"There is a proper dignity and proportion to be observed in the performance of every act of life"

[email="joe@joepapp.com"]* email me[/email]
* read my ([color=Red]old) blog[/color]
* visit my website
* read my ([color=Red]new) blog[/color]
User avatar joe_papp
Junior Member
 
Posts: 1,267
Joined: 13 May 2009 15:57
Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA

27 Jun 2012 17:38

Joe,

Thanks for bringing your experience and perspectives to these forums/threads. It gives the average fan a glimpse of what truly goes on in the sport. The sport could benefit by more athletes being honest about the past.

I'm still incredulous of the "Lance is persecuted/500 tests, no positives/he's done so much good" nonsense elsewhere on the web...it's not 2004 anymore!
pleyser
Junior Member
 
Posts: 58
Joined: 12 Aug 2010 17:11

27 Jun 2012 17:47

Bala Verde wrote:Could it be that Lampre-ISD (can) spend(s) more money on an 'internal correction' program, to ensure that their riders' values don't fluctuate too much, or exceed their 'natural' or 'biological' parameters? Did they teach Bertagnolli how to do it properly, or they steered him and corrected him when his values were off?

What other riders/teams are affiliated with the Mapei Sport Center?


The absurdity is its from 2008. 4 years ago! Is it only because the Ferrari link has been established the UCI quickly drew a link?

They couldn't do the same in 2010 when the Landis revelations came out?
User avatar thehog
Senior Member
 
Posts: 16,686
Joined: 27 Jul 2009 20:00

27 Jun 2012 23:07

Just a lamb to the slaughter so the UCI have a positive to point to when the cycling public accuse them of being asleep at the wheel.

Also, the fact that Bartagnolli was retiring anyway should not be lost on anyone.
UlleGigo
Junior Member
 
Posts: 402
Joined: 23 May 2010 13:03
Location: Queensland

28 Jun 2012 00:19

2008/2009 tests results just in... so in four years we'll know if he did the same at Lampre?
CyclingNews Forum Member Number 1. (verified)
All my posts are of my own opinion.
October 10, 2012 The Reasoned Decision
Points: 10 CN Infraction Points
User avatar ElChingon
Senior Member
 
Posts: 5,919
Joined: 10 Mar 2009 03:19
Location: En el Internet, and Hiding from the UCI

28 Jun 2012 00:21

thehog wrote:The absurdity is its from 2008. 4 years ago! Is it only because the Ferrari link has been established the UCI quickly drew a link?

They couldn't do the same in 2010 when the Landis revelations came out?


UCI are trolling it seems.
Ferminal
Senior Member
 
Posts: 16,746
Joined: 03 Jul 2009 09:42

28 Jun 2012 09:19

Playing safe bets to build a case (with weak opponents) that the passport works, to later take on bigger fish? Thomas Dekker was a passport case also, supposedly? easy to claim with an EPO positive in hand.
USADA take the high road. Analyse the highest profile rider they have jurisdiction over, and bring the case forward.
Cloxxki
Junior Member
 
Posts: 1,973
Joined: 19 Mar 2009 14:25


Return to The Clinic

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: uspostal and 11 guests

Back to top