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Chris Froome Discussion Thread.

A place to discuss all things related to current professional road races. Here, you can also touch on the latest news relating to professional road racing. A doping discussion free forum.

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Re: Re:

06 Jul 2019 11:52

Poursuivant wrote:
Moviefan1203 wrote:It’s beyond me how people can legitimately believe some of these conspiracy theories.


It’s because they loathe him. Sad acts.

And they are crazy.
Singer01
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06 Jul 2019 11:55

Pretty sure the photos Froome is releasing on Twitter etc are done to troll such idiots. You only have to read Vayers tweets after the crash happened, the guy needs psychiatric help.
bigcog
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Re: Re:

06 Jul 2019 20:59

Leinster wrote:
Koronin wrote:
Escarabajo wrote:
rick james wrote:tin foil hat mob have broken out the lounge it seems

Rick, stop the BS. I believe he crashed. I could care less if he didn't as well. But he really looks good on those pictures. Maybe he might come back strong next year and it is not a career ending injury like some suggest.



I think most people believe he crashed. The pictures they've shown (not many) do not look like he suffered anywhere near the injuries they say he suffered.

There is absolutely no reason for them to lie about the extent of his injuries. All they had to say was “he broke his leg, he’s out of the Tour.” I do not understand anyone who would question the validity of the reports for any reason.

Well, some people think that the earth is flat, the holocaust didn't happen, no one has ever been to the moon (or space in general), JFK jr. is working with dt... it makes the basement more exciting. I don't think that anyone here falls into the conspiracy crew, they are just pointing out that Ineos isn't doing anything to shut them up.

Hopefully CF feels relieved just to be home. Being in the hospital that long will make most people stir crazy!
jmdirt
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07 Jul 2019 09:15

did LA mention a on-bike footage of CF's wobbling before the crash in the TdF preview WEDU podcast 2 days ago?
https://youtu.be/gjyyr5fp5uw?t=231
Shut up, Jens!
glassmoon
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Re:

07 Jul 2019 14:19

glassmoon wrote:did LA mention a on-bike footage of CF's wobbling before the crash in the TdF preview WEDU podcast 2 days ago?
https://youtu.be/gjyyr5fp5uw?t=231

I saw the video too. It might actually be linked up thread. All it shows is that he wasn't being careful, dare I say smart, during his recon ride.
jmdirt
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Re: Re:

07 Jul 2019 16:55

Escarabajo wrote:
Leinster wrote:
Koronin wrote:
Escarabajo wrote:
rick james wrote:tin foil hat mob have broken out the lounge it seems

Rick, stop the BS. I believe he crashed. I could care less if he didn't as well. But he really looks good on those pictures. Maybe he might come back strong next year and it is not a career ending injury like some suggest.



I think most people believe he crashed. The pictures they've shown (not many) do not look like he suffered anywhere near the injuries they say he suffered.

There is absolutely no reason for them to lie about the extent of his injuries. All they had to say was “he broke his leg, he’s out of the Tour.” I do not understand anyone who would question the validity of the reports for any reason.

Read again!!!
People being defensive are being silly.
Nobody is questioning his injuries here.

Your reply was fine. I was responding to Koronin, who said his injuries “do not look like the injuries they say he suffered.” He literally questioned the injuries.
Leinster
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Re: Re:

07 Jul 2019 17:25

Leinster wrote:
Escarabajo wrote:
Leinster wrote:
Escarabajo wrote:
rick james wrote:tin foil hat mob have broken out the lounge it seems

Rick, stop the BS. I believe he crashed. I could care less if he didn't as well. But he really looks good on those pictures. Maybe he might come back strong next year and it is not a career ending injury like some suggest.



I think most people believe he crashed. The pictures they've shown (not many) do not look like he suffered anywhere near the injuries they say he suffered.

There is absolutely no reason for them to lie about the extent of his injuries. All they had to say was “he broke his leg, he’s out of the Tour.” I do not understand anyone who would question the validity of the reports for any reason.

Read again!!!
People being defensive are being silly.
Nobody is questioning his injuries here.

Your reply was fine. I was responding to Koronin, who said his injuries “do not look like the injuries they say he suffered.” He literally questioned the injuries.[/quote]


Questing the pictures, which do not show his injuries in anyway is different than questioning the injuries themselves. The pictures look to be intentionally hiding his injuries. Also I'm a she.
User avatar Koronin
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Re:

08 Jul 2019 18:52

jmdirt wrote:I'm going to buck the trend here and say that CF will be flying for TdF 2020! Of course much like those who see this as the end of his career, I don't have enough info to make a true prediction. That being said, the femur will likely be fine, the question is more about the soft tissue.
Taylor Phinney had a compound leg fracture and was out completely for 14 months, then returned to racing in top form. But that was tibia fracture, not femur

Joseba Beloki is the famous example. Because that crash was also Armstrong's offroad adventure, and because Beloki was never the same after compound fracture of the femur. Beloki was back in grand tours two years later and completed the Tour de France and the Vuelta, with unremarkable pack finishes. And under questionable circumstances, because he was riding for Saiz and working with Fuentes

Froome could be back for Tour de France 2020, but why would he be selected, given that he will not contend for GC anytime soon - and would not be a great choice as a domestique of an 8-man team. Also, he is very controversial and unpopular in France, so not a sentimental favorite who fans demand to see in the race

Froome's injuries, from the available information, seem worse than Finney, but not as severe as Beloki. The two liters of blood loss, not clear where that is coming from - it is normal if that means intraoperative blood loss during the orthopedic surgery. If it means lost 2 liters on the ground at the scene of the crash, then he was almost dead, so that could be a misinterpretation of what the surgeon said

He is on contract with Brailsford until the end of 2020 - if Froome doesn't just retire, then Ineos will give him something to do, but not GT. The 'survivor' narrative of bilharzia, asthma, kidney failure, and now multiple bone fracture... isn't enough, because Froome is just not well-liked. Geraint Thomas was exasperated by the Froome salbutamol case, and has nothing to gain by 'co-leader' nonsense
ClassicomanoLuigi
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Re: Re:

08 Jul 2019 20:01

ClassicomanoLuigi wrote:
jmdirt wrote:I'm going to buck the trend here and say that CF will be flying for TdF 2020! Of course much like those who see this as the end of his career, I don't have enough info to make a true prediction. That being said, the femur will likely be fine, the question is more about the soft tissue.
Taylor Phinney had a compound leg fracture and was out completely for 14 months, then returned to racing in top form. But that was tibia fracture, not femur

Joseba Beloki is the famous example. Because that crash was also Armstrong's offroad adventure, and because Beloki was never the same after compound fracture of the femur. Beloki was back in grand tours two years later and completed the Tour de France and the Vuelta, with unremarkable pack finishes. And under questionable circumstances, because he was riding for Saiz and working with Fuentes

Froome could be back for Tour de France 2020, but why would he be selected, given that he will not contend for GC anytime soon - and would not be a great choice as a domestique of an 8-man team. Also, he is very controversial and unpopular in France, so not a sentimental favorite who fans demand to see in the race

Froome's injuries, from the available information, seem worse than Finney, but not as severe as Beloki. The two liters of blood loss, not clear where that is coming from - it is normal if that means intraoperative blood loss during the orthopedic surgery. If it means lost 2 liters on the ground at the scene of the crash, then he was almost dead, so that could be a misinterpretation of what the surgeon said

He is on contract with Brailsford until the end of 2020 - if Froome doesn't just retire, then Ineos will give him something to do, but not GT. The 'survivor' narrative of bilharzia, asthma, kidney failure, and now multiple bone fracture... isn't enough, because Froome is just not well-liked. Geraint Thomas was exasperated by the Froome salbutamol case, and has nothing to gain by 'co-leader' nonsense


He may not be liked by some, but every person has things to learn from, and if Froome can come back and rediscover any form, it will be an inspiration to many to fight the obstacles that life sometimes presents to you. Of course, he wouldn't be the first, and he won't be the last, but he's definitely high profile enough to inspire some people, and that can only be a good thing
User avatar PremierAndrew
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Re: Chris Froome Discussion Thread.

08 Jul 2019 20:26

Froome is the only great champion of the tdf in our time, the only GT-great since Contador (only much more so) only rivaled by LA in modern times. He is the guy everyone cares about, about 50% want to see him loose, and the rest want to see if the greatest still has it. He is the only one to be able to deliver magic in a GT, the rest will only win in his absence, injury or fatigue from a daring double or even triple. To loose him would be terrible for the sport, there are no one else regular people even know about, no one to pick up the mantle. I hope he can make it for 1 or even 2 more attempts, he should definitely be amongst the 5 wins guys.
«Sky helped for the GC, so did BMC - a lot of teams tried but one rider isn't enough. Not against De Gendt. He's like 10 riders.»
Oude Geuze
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08 Jul 2019 20:59

I don’t agree that a comeback against the odds “survivor” narrative would be met with indifference. I agree that he’s more controversial than popular among fans, including casual fans, but great champions often suddenly become popular in any sport if they look like having a last hurrah some time after their career at the top seemed over. If he can be competitive at the top level again, many people who cheered against him through his best years will be cheering for him.
Zinoviev Letter
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Re:

08 Jul 2019 21:10

Zinoviev Letter wrote:I don’t agree that a comeback against the odds “survivor” narrative would be met with indifference. I agree that he’s more controversial than popular among fans, including casual fans, but great champions often suddenly become popular in any sport if they look like having a last hurrah some time after their career at the top seemed over. If he can be competitive at the top level again, many people who cheered against him through his best years will be cheering for him.



Except that cycling fans in general are a very cynical group.
User avatar Koronin
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Re: Re:

08 Jul 2019 23:24

ClassicomanoLuigi wrote:
jmdirt wrote:
Froome's injuries, from the available information, seem worse than Finney, but not as severe as Beloki. The two liters of blood loss, not clear where that is coming from - it is normal if that means intraoperative blood loss during the orthopedic surgery. If it means lost 2 liters on the ground at the scene of the crash, then he was almost dead, so that could be a misinterpretation of what the surgeon said


I was under the impression the blood loss occurred at the scene of the accident, which I presume is why he spent so long there initially, about 1.5 or 2 hours whilst they stabilised him. There were some pictures/footage of blood near the wall where he crashed.

Unfortunately I think this is the end of his GT ambitions, unless the femur fracture was a lot less serious than it sounded. Plus if GT or Bernal wins the TDF this year I can't see either of them playing second fiddle to Froome next year if he does manage to come back.
bigcog
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Re: Re:

09 Jul 2019 00:28

Koronin wrote:
Zinoviev Letter wrote:I don’t agree that a comeback against the odds “survivor” narrative would be met with indifference. I agree that he’s more controversial than popular among fans, including casual fans, but great champions often suddenly become popular in any sport if they look like having a last hurrah some time after their career at the top seemed over. If he can be competitive at the top level again, many people who cheered against him through his best years will be cheering for him.



Except that cycling fans in general are a very cynical group.

If cycling fans were all as cynical as that, none of us would actually be cycling fans any more. The return from catastrophe is a tale as old as time, and we’re all romantics really, believing in feats of superhuman endurance when all around us tell us such things cannot be possible by the blood and sinew of mortal man.
Leinster
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Re: Re:

09 Jul 2019 21:14

Partly agree with ZinovievLetter
I don’t agree that a comeback against the odds “survivor” narrative would be met with indifference. I agree that he’s more controversial than popular among fans, including casual fans, but great champions often suddenly become popular in any sport if they look like having a last hurrah some time after their career at the top seemed over. If he can be competitive at the top level again, many people who cheered against him through his best years will be cheering for him.
Agree, but Froome is not a 'lock' for TdF or any grand tour, just for being Chris Froome, or for sentimental reasons... Ineos have to be pragmatic about a rider likely to abandon.
French fans are bitter about Froome being in competition at all, because he should be serving a doping suspension. And they will not go from: tossing urine on Froome, protest banners at the Grand Départ , telling him to get out of France, and booing him in the velodrome, one year, then hoping he will win the next. Begrudging respect for persistence through great adversity (for real this time), and therefore respectful enough not to attack Froome

The blood loss question appears to have been answered by curiosity seekers who went to the location :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZW3F2mE6rY
He wasn't bleeding to death on the scene. And the road there is not a 'technical descent', as some reporters assumed - it is a straight, steep urban street. Froome was fiddling with blowing his nose, with one hand off the bars of a TT bike, it was just a freak accident, like Wout Poels said. Hit the corner of the courtyard at 33 mph

"Une marche à suivre plutôt clair pour le chef de chirurgie Stéphanois : "Pour la suite, la rééducation va être longue. Il va falloir d’abord y avoir une période de consolidation osseuse qui est de minimum un mois et demi voire un peu plus pour des lésions complexes. Et ensuite une période de rééducation, de réathlétisation avec minimum une période de six mois en dehors de toute compétition."
For the chief of surgery Stéphanois, the course of action to follow is clear: ' From this point, the rehabilitation will be long. There must first be a period of bone reconsolidation which is at a minimum six weeks, and even a bit longer for complex fractures. And then, a period of rehabilitation, re-training in sport, with at a minimum six months away from all competition."

So Froome is out until March 2020 at the earliest... in theory he could be back in competition for the 2020 late spring warmup --> Dauphiné --> Tour de France sequence.
Doomsayers could be proven wrong
On the other hand, why would Froome be included in TdF squad when it's not in their interests ... personal whim of Ratcliffe to outweigh strategic good sense ? He knowingly bought Chris Froome's baggage when he bought the team... maybe Ratcliffe does subscribe to the redemption narrative, who knows
ClassicomanoLuigi
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Re: Re:

10 Jul 2019 02:52

ClassicomanoLuigi wrote:Partly agree with ZinovievLetter
I don’t agree that a comeback against the odds “survivor” narrative would be met with indifference. I agree that he’s more controversial than popular among fans, including casual fans, but great champions often suddenly become popular in any sport if they look like having a last hurrah some time after their career at the top seemed over. If he can be competitive at the top level again, many people who cheered against him through his best years will be cheering for him.
Agree, but Froome is not a 'lock' for TdF or any grand tour, just for being Chris Froome, or for sentimental reasons... Ineos have to be pragmatic about a rider likely to abandon.
French fans are bitter about Froome being in competition at all, because he should be serving a doping suspension. And they will not go from: tossing urine on Froome, protest banners at the Grand Départ , telling him to get out of France, and booing him in the velodrome, one year, then hoping he will win the next. Begrudging respect for persistence through great adversity (for real this time), and therefore respectful enough not to attack Froome

The blood loss question appears to have been answered by curiosity seekers who went to the location :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZW3F2mE6rY
He wasn't bleeding to death on the scene. And the road there is not a 'technical descent', as some reporters assumed - it is a straight, steep urban street. Froome was fiddling with blowing his nose, with one hand off the bars of a TT bike, it was just a freak accident, like Wout Poels said. Hit the corner of the courtyard at 33 mph

"Une marche à suivre plutôt clair pour le chef de chirurgie Stéphanois : "Pour la suite, la rééducation va être longue. Il va falloir d’abord y avoir une période de consolidation osseuse qui est de minimum un mois et demi voire un peu plus pour des lésions complexes. Et ensuite une période de rééducation, de réathlétisation avec minimum une période de six mois en dehors de toute compétition."
For the chief of surgery Stéphanois, the course of action to follow is clear: ' From this point, the rehabilitation will be long. There must first be a period of bone reconsolidation which is at a minimum six weeks, and even a bit longer for complex fractures. And then, a period of rehabilitation, re-training in sport, with at a minimum six months away from all competition."

So Froome is out until March 2020 at the earliest... in theory he could be back in competition for the 2020 late spring warmup --> Dauphiné --> Tour de France sequence.
Doomsayers could be proven wrong
On the other hand, why would Froome be included in TdF squad when it's not in their interests ... personal whim of Ratcliffe to outweigh strategic good sense ? He knowingly bought Chris Froome's baggage when he bought the team... maybe Ratcliffe does subscribe to the redemption narrative, who knows

I’m confused. The story all along was that he took excessive risks in removing both hands from the steering wheel to blow his nose and that a freak gust of wind knocked him off his bike. Why are you acting like you’re debunking a conspiracy theory? Also, color me bored after Contadors exit, but I for one am a former anti-Froomer who will be cheering for him. Same reason I cheered for Tiger at the Masters I guess. Deep down many of us love a return to dominance after being exposed to ruin even more than we love straight up dominance.
VayaVayaVaya
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10 Jul 2019 03:55

he took one hand off his handle bar
rick james
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Re: Re:

10 Jul 2019 05:48

VayaVayaVaya wrote:I’m confused. The story all along was that he took excessive risks in removing both hands from the steering wheel to blow his nose and that a freak gust of wind knocked him off his bike. Why are you acting like you’re debunking a conspiracy theory?
It was to correct inaccurate reporting about the incident, especially second-hand interpretations on Twitter, how he crashed on 'a technical descent', and the idea that Froome lost 2000ml of blood on the ground at the scene of the crash. Questions were unresolved for some other members in the forum. There isn't a conspiracy, and if the facts put an end to conspiracy theorists' nonsense, so much the better. Not to be indelicate or mean ...but will point out that racing bicycles have handlebars, not steering wheels. Maybe that just means 'the front wheel'
Deep down many of us love a return to dominance after being exposed to ruin even more than we love straight up dominance.
Agreed partially above... if you were French and tossed your own urine on Froome last year, but now seek his return-to-dominance next year, more people would be convinced. Again it's not just to be contrary, but to frankly answer the questions - Luigi
ClassicomanoLuigi
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Re:

10 Jul 2019 06:30

rick james wrote:he took one hand off his handle bar
Exactly, and one-handed is more than enough asking for trouble. Riding with no hands is about getting the center of gravity way back, by getting upright smoothly then leaning back slightly on the seat, it's possible to ride around indefinitely 'no hands' on a road bike. Time-trial bike is scary with no hands, and even worse with a rear disc wheel, I wouldn't dare do it, and would soon crash if I tried. The Froome scenario had a lot of factors going against him - TT bike with a forward seatpost angle, steep downhill putting center of gravity more toward the front wheel, crosswind (according to the gendarme, Poels and others).
ClassicomanoLuigi
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10 Jul 2019 08:39

So rookie mistake
leads to likely 8 months or so out of competition.
Move along now
haven't you got a Tour to watch?
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