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Chris Froome Discussion Thread.

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01 May 2013 09:16

Dave Brailsford tends to think big and if the opportunity for the Giro Tour double presented itself, I think he might find it hard to resist.
element
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01 May 2013 09:27

element wrote:Dave Brailsford tends to think big and if the opportunity for the Giro Tour double presented itself, I think he might find it hard to resist.


Frankly I find all the stuff about promises etc a bit far out. Sky (sponsor) is dishing out £10M or so a year. They would want maximum return.

If Wiggins is on target for the the double (and triple crown), he will be the man in focus. Sure the tactics will cover the risk along the way, but should Wiggo wear yellow after stage 17, Sky would want to find a way to make that stick until the end.
Dazed and Confused
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01 May 2013 09:46

Contadoraus Schlecks wrote:Who is disputing that this is the case?


IndianRider says that Contador>Froome>Wiggins, apparently based on Prati di Tivo. I disagree. Henao neutralized Contador's pull and to think that Henao wasn't weaker than Froome on that day would be very presumptuous.

Plus in Oman Froome dropped Contador by himself without team.
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01 May 2013 09:58

Dazed and Confused wrote:Frankly I find all the stuff about promises etc a bit far out. Sky (sponsor) is dishing out £10M or so a year. They would want maximum return.

If Wiggins is on target for the the double (and triple crown), he will be the man in focus. Sure the tactics will cover the risk along the way, but should Wiggo wear yellow after stage 17, Sky would want to find a way to make that stick until the end.


Exactly, that's what Wiggins is pretty much saying, and none of the childish crap thrown out by Froome and the Cound twitwoman is going to change any of that.
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01 May 2013 10:08

webvan wrote:Exactly, that's what Wiggins is pretty much saying, and none of the childish crap thrown out by Froome and the Cound twitwoman is going to change any of that.


And do you think Froome will back down if he is in a position to win ? Been there done that. It won't happen.
movingtarget
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01 May 2013 10:18

movingtarget wrote:And do you think Froome will back down if he is in a position to win ? Been there done that. It won't happen.


yea, don't think many expect Froome to just lie down and that will be the challenge of the Sky management if we ever get that far.
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01 May 2013 10:20

movingtarget wrote:And do you think Froome will back down if he is in a position to win ? Been there done that. It won't happen.


The road should decide (unlike what Froome and the Cound Twitwoman are currently trying to do) so if he can take off "clear" on the Alpe d'Huez, i.e. not dragging along a Delgado like Lemond was told not to in 1985, or covers an attack by a GC threat, I don't think anyone would have a problem with that because at the end of the day the objective is for a Sky rider to win the TDF, something Froome kept going on and on about last year.

I guess the only really difficult scenario would be if BW is in yellow and Froome is the last Sky rider around and a GC threat attacks...what to do then. Have Froome cover or pace him...hopefully it won't come to that, but after last year I'd say that Froome should be allowed to go.
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01 May 2013 10:25

Perhaps Bradley is trying to learn something from his idol, Lance. In 2009 situation was similar: two leaders, super strong team, and Lance also did the Giro, like Brad is doing now! Then, all Lance's plans were based on idea that once he gets the yellow, Contador will not attack him, and the team will control the race for him. But Lance missed yellow by a couple of seconds in the early phase, and then Contador spoiled everything by attacking at Arcalis.
The issue of leadership for the Tour, also developed similarly. At the beginiing Lance was supposed to work for Alberto. I remeber how one Lance fanatic on this forum 'Jackhammer' was absolutely certain that Lance will be the last in train and dragging Alberto on the climbs. Then all the games around the team leadership stared, and come July all was unclear.
Situation seems similar to me. So if Brad is copying Lance, Chris must copy Alberto and go on attack early on, even against team orders.
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01 May 2013 10:41

Not really comparable, Lance was a lot weaker than Contador on ALL terrains, mountain and ITT, he had zero chance, even if Contador hadn't attacked on Verbier he would have won that TDF.

In theory BW is still stronger than Froome in ITTs especially since Froome seems to have lost a tiny bit there compared to previous years (if you look at the TA and Romandie ITTs)...and according to BW and Kerrisson, who knows his numbers, BW has progressed in steep climbs...where he was already pretty decent in 2012.
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01 May 2013 10:44

webvan wrote:Not really comparable, Lance was a lot weaker than Contador on ALL terrains, mountain and ITT, he had zero chance, even if Contador hadn't attacked on Verbier he would have won that TDF.

In theory BW is still stronger than Froome in ITTs especially since Froome seems to have lost a tiny bit there compared to previous years (if you look at the TA and Romandie ITTs)...and according to BW and Kerrisson, who knows his numbers, BW has progressed in steep climbs...where he was already pretty decent in 2012.


Tour 2012 had almost no hard climbs in the final and a weak field. Best climber there wasn't allowed to go all out.

A low class rider like BW doing the Giro-Tour double? Clinic right there.
Ryo Hazuki wrote:horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato


The Hitch wrote:Goss will woop boonens candy a[color="Black"]ss[/color] in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
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01 May 2013 12:24

Gregory wrote:Perhaps Bradley is trying to learn something from his idol, Lance. In 2009 situation was similar: two leaders, super strong team, and Lance also did the Giro, like Brad is doing now! Then, all Lance's plans were based on idea that once he gets the yellow, Contador will not attack him, and the team will control the race for him. But Lance missed yellow by a couple of seconds in the early phase, and then Contador spoiled everything by attacking at Arcalis.
The issue of leadership for the Tour, also developed similarly. At the beginiing Lance was supposed to work for Alberto. I remeber how one Lance fanatic on this forum 'Jackhammer' was absolutely certain that Lance will be the last in train and dragging Alberto on the climbs. Then all the games around the team leadership stared, and come July all was unclear.
Situation seems similar to me. So if Brad is copying Lance, Chris must copy Alberto and go on attack early on, even against team orders.


That's pretty obvious that Froomedog is gonna attack once they hit Ax3 after frantic pace on Pailharès,isn't it?
Alberto Contador fanboy
Vamos Colombia!
Ryo Hazuki in August 2013 wrote:what? quintana is already better climber than froome. see final stages of the tour and he's only 23. quintana is the best climber I've sene since pantani. he will become a legend
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01 May 2013 12:31

Yep, that will be the moment of truth, till then all the Sky parties, and especially the Cound Twitwoman, should STFU and focus on the work at hand, if not they might be in for a little Contador/Purito/Quintana/etc... surprise!
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01 May 2013 12:33

I think that Froome could win the Tour without Wiggins.

I believe Wiggins could win it with Froome but not without him. And at this point I don't see a scenario where Froome would work for Wiggins unless there was a incident where he lost a boatload of time.
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01 May 2013 13:13

webvan wrote:Not really comparable, Lance was a lot weaker than Contador on ALL terrains, mountain and ITT, he had zero chance, even if Contador hadn't attacked on Verbier he would have won that TDF.

In theory BW is still stronger than Froome in ITTs especially since Froome seems to have lost a tiny bit there compared to previous years (if you look at the TA and Romandie ITTs)...and according to BW and Kerrisson, who knows his numbers, BW has progressed in steep climbs...where he was already pretty decent in 2012.


This is Wiggins with the Giro in his legs versus Froome who will be relatively fresh and singularly focused. I can't see Wiggins having any advantage (other than the possibilty of him being in yellow and Froome's hands being tied as a result) in this scenario especially come the final week of the Tour where fatigue will be more of factor with him than Froome. I think that Froome will ride his own race, taking opportunities where he can find them to put Wiggins in difficulty, yellow or no.
"It's a little bit scarey when Contador attacks." Tommie Voeckler
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01 May 2013 13:30

Image
Cancellara is like The Black Album. Really good but way overrated.
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01 May 2013 13:44

Netserk wrote:Image


LOL.. nice photoshop job :p
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01 May 2013 13:51

webvan wrote:Not really comparable, Lance was a lot weaker than Contador on ALL terrains, mountain and ITT, he had zero chance, even if Contador hadn't attacked on Verbier he would have won that TDF.

In theory BW is still stronger than Froome in ITTs especially since Froome seems to have lost a tiny bit there compared to previous years (if you look at the TA and Romandie ITTs)...and according to BW and Kerrisson, who knows his numbers, BW has progressed in steep climbs...where he was already pretty decent in 2012.


And that makes him better than Froome? Not to mention a Giro leg vs a fresh leg?? Whew... BW must be drinking some cool-aid somewhere. I noticed that he won't make that statement if he won't believe that he is as strong as or better than Froome. It's really some statement there. If BW in yellow, i really want to see what Froome would do if the likes of contador and others are attacking BW. Wait or not to wait? priceless :p
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01 May 2013 14:23

webvan wrote:Interesting...so DB will not be saying anything it seems...kinda blows away that crazy Cound woman and showboating Froome, no? Again, I really don't see the problem in having dual leaders, or two "protected" riders, how can Froome seriously deny that to the defending champion. Kinda shows his lack of understanding of cycling rules/"etiquette", like when makes these scenes on Toussuire or Peyragudes or taunts Peraud on CI, this is going to bite back at some point, especially if he fails in the TDF this year, for one reason or the other, and there are many reasons for things to go wrong, mechanical, fall, tactics like at T-A, etc...

It's not an end in itself to be the "sole" leader, it certainly wasn't in 86, 97 or '09, the strongest won and if he'd been the strongest overall last year he would have won too. The issue is that he's not convinced it's changed this year, especially with what BW and Kerrison are saying these days about BWs climbing abilities. In any case Froome and Cound are not getting BW off the TDF team if he wants/can to be there so they should take a pill and relax.


The problem is Wiggins made Froome slave for him in 2 GT's that he likely could have won. And in one of those GT's he was even forced to work for him while in the leaders jersey. Froome, for all he's done for Wiggins, deserves the chance to be the undisputed leader for the 2013 Tour. Have Wiggins be the back-up leader in case Froome crashes or has some kind of other problem, that's fine. But Wiggins isn't saying he will be the back-up leader in case something like that happens. He is saying his goal is to win the Tour. Which directly conflicts with Froome's goal to win it.

By doing this, IMO, Wiggins is just being a A-hole and causing more headache for Froome. He really needs to grow up and acknowledge that Froome deserves to be the undisputed leader much more than he does.
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01 May 2013 15:41

jaylew wrote:I think that Froome could win the Tour without Wiggins.

I believe Wiggins could win it with Froome but not without him. And at this point I don't see a scenario where Froome would work for Wiggins unless there was a incident where he lost a boatload of time.


+1
No way wiggins wins last year without froome. No chance in hell he wins a hillier tour this year without froome.
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01 May 2013 16:19

I don't know what race you guys watched last summer but writing that BW wouldn't have won the TDF without Froome is complete BS! Froome pulled maybe 5km tops for BW, the rest he was being paced like BW by Eisel, Rogers, Porte, etc...he had to let BW take over on Toussuire for several Ks to recover and same on Peyresourdes. There is absolutely ZERO chance that BW would have lost 3 minutes to Froome on Toussuire or Peyragudes, ZERO. Not even open to discussion if you know anything about cycling.

Having said that, I think we all agree that BW should be there as a backup leader, because, yes Froome has shown to be a better climber at this point, because Wiggins will have a Giro in his legs (normally) and because Froome worked for him at the Vuelta 2011 (most likely losing the Vuelta because of that, but no need to have that debate again, he was totally uproven as a GT rider before the Vuelta, and after the Angliru Wiggins buried himself for Froome) and the TDF 2012, in spite of the useless showboating.

The problem at this point is that Froome and the Cound Twitwoman apparently don't want BW to be starting the TDF, this is unacceptable and shows they have some issues they need to sort, preferably not in public as they've been doing lately.
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