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Vuelta 2013 route

A place to discuss all things related to current professional road races. Here, you can also touch on the latest news relating to professional road racing. A doping discussion free forum.

05 Jan 2013 21:34

Ok, I don't want any polemic. I just made a point. You can not know what it is in their heads. Alps are there, Dolomites and Apennines are there, Pyrenees are there, all those mountains from Basque Country, Andalucia are there every year, with perfect roads, they just don't want to use them, so we can hope for more and more. Right?
McLovin
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05 Jan 2013 21:37

McLovin wrote:You can not know what it is in their heads.
But we know it. They told us countless times. This is exactly the problem.
A race that doesn't give an attacker the chance to finish it off alone is not a race anymore.


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User avatar Eshnar
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05 Jan 2013 21:38

I was ironic.
McLovin
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05 Jan 2013 21:43

McLovin wrote:I was ironic.

then I don't actually see your point. You said that maybe they don't make multiple climbs stages because the roads have to be in perfect condition and all that. Whether it is true or not (and btw, how good was the road of the Bola?), we know, by their own words, that the reason is that they don't want to. So it's useless to go looking for possible excuses. It's their choice.
A race that doesn't give an attacker the chance to finish it off alone is not a race anymore.


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WARNING: Location says Germany, but I'm Italian...
User avatar Eshnar
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05 Jan 2013 21:55

McLovin wrote:I didn't checked, that's why I asked. But you know, a road, especially a mountain one has to be in perfect condition, not just asphalted. They resurfaced the last part of Galibier in 2011 for example, even it was in perfect shape 11 months before. Snow tend to broke them. Maybe some mayors just don't want to make a commitment. It was an article on cyclingnews this October, with ASO checking the road around Serre Pocon. You think the roads are bad in France? They must be perfect. Imagine a dh at 100 km/h. But I said a few posts before, I don't now how the roads are in Spain. Winters are not winters, anyway.

Winters can be proper winters in Spain, you know. There's a reason why they ride to Estación de Esquí El Morredero, Estación de Esquí Cerler, Estación de Esquí Fuentes de Invierno, Estación de Esquí Port-Ainé, Estación de Esquí La Covatilla, Estación de Esquí Valdezcaray and that's not including the Andorra ones like Arcalis and Pal. At altitude you're going to get snow and ice and other road-damaging things. And the Basque country had a series of snowstorms last year.

But look at the roads on Bola del Mundo, on Cuitu Negru, even on well-known climbs like Anglirú - the desire for spectacle (or the spectacle as Unipublic desire it) overrides the need for good quality tarmac. This isn't the Tour of California (much to Bavarianrider's disappointment - the tarmac quality in the Vuelta is a major sticking point in his enjoyment of the race). They aren't going over gravel like the Giro does from time to time yet (so no Trobaniello between Cobertoria and San Lorenzo, for example), and there has to be enough room at the summit for a finish (even so, with no car park to speak of and little in the way of infrastructure there, the Setmana Catalana put a finish on the Coll de Pal - not the one in Andorra - and I would have expected this to appeal to the Vuelta).
User avatar Libertine Seguros
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05 Jan 2013 22:25

I live in Asturias (the land of Angliru) (Spain) and I have seen that trobaniello is a very difficult climb for cyclists and this climb will not be included in the race ever, because this is a climb without asphalt and the Vuelta race director does not go up without asphalt around.

Sorry for my bad English !
alexcta
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05 Jan 2013 22:33

One more thing I would like to say, you want a stage which ends in the Cobertoria . The race will take long time to finish there, but there is a climb that is close to where it is known that there are more possibilities and is called the Gamoniteiru, a very tough climb


Again , sorry for my bad English !
alexcta
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05 Jan 2013 22:37

apmfbs wrote:Don´t worry the stage is from Avilés to Angliru , the last stage, riders will de very tired, and they don´t have to think, just repeating the stage of 2011,

Image


The same stage will not be repeated, no Cabruñana and Tenebredo . Perhaps the cyclists could climb the Cobertoria and the Cordal before the Angliru
alexcta
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05 Jan 2013 22:50

alexcta wrote:I live in Asturias (the land of Angliru) (Spain) and I have seen that trobaniello is a very difficult climb for cyclists and this climb will not be included in the race ever, because this is a climb without asphalt and the Vuelta race director does not go up without asphalt around.

Sorry for my bad English !

yes we know that Trobaniello has no tarmac and we already mentioned that Unipublic would rather die than use it, ours was just a dream. :o

btw no need to apologize for your English. This forum is full of people from all around the world and English isn't the first language of most of them (me included).
A race that doesn't give an attacker the chance to finish it off alone is not a race anymore.


Bronze Medal at the Great Grand Tour Game 2012

WARNING: Location says Germany, but I'm Italian...
User avatar Eshnar
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05 Jan 2013 23:00

According to a local newspaper , The Naranco stage will be soft and the stage go along the coast. If the cyclists climb a mountain pass which is called the Violeo, it will be a success because the pass is short, hard (20% in some areas) and narrow. The descent is complicated and has many tricky corners. The Violeo is close to the Naranco .
It is an option and if the Vuelta does that would be great.
alexcta
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05 Jan 2013 23:10

Libertine Seguros wrote:Nah, it's that Unipublic noted that the mountains were producing smaller gaps.

So rather than make the mountain stages harder, to produce larger gaps, they decided to live with the smaller gaps, but do it on more stages.

Worse, fortunate circumstances regarding Valverde crashing out of GC contention at the Tour and Contador's ban led to all three of the top Spanish cyclists being at the Vuelta last year, the Sky ambush on Valverde in La Rioja and the race was successful, so they've decided that the template works and will continue to move in that direction. But remove even two of the three amigos, and look how paper thin the race starts to look. Take them all out and you're left with Gorka Verdugo and Tomasz Marczyński in the top 10, and Laurens Ten Dam in 5th.

They may be creating classic duels "on the mountain (singular)" but not "in the mountains (plural)" because they are all too often failing to make any more than the last climb meaningful.

Worse yet, they're actively trying to reduce difficulty in the rest of the stage to that end. And they are, all too often, choosing only mid-length climbs (Arrate, Gallina), easy climbs (Valdezcaray) or occasional real challenge climbs, but with all the hardest gradients at the very end thus ensuring most of the activity will only come in that last few kilometres (Cuitu Negru, Bola del Mundo). These climbs are all perfectly useful up to a point; Arrate and Valdezcaray used as they were last year were absolutely fine as part of an otherwise balanced route. The early mountaintop or two that opens up small gaps between contenders and separates the GC men from the boys like Arrate did is ideal, as it also ensures less jostling for position in upcoming flat stages with sprinters, leading to the many crashes we see at, say, the Tour, where the GC status quo isn't usually really organised until a week in.

As for gaps between mountains, here are a few ideas from the Race Design Thread:

Mont Caro x2
Karabieta - Ixua - Oiz - Urkiola - Bikotx-gane
Alisas - La Sía - Picón Blanco
Colladiella - Cobertoria - Cruz de Linares - Maravía - San Lorenzo
Honduras - Tornavacas - Tremedal - La Covatilla (compare to the anæmic 2011 stage to La Covatilla and the much better 2006 stage)
(all of the above from Another Dutch Guy)

Calar Alto - Venta Luisa - Velefique
Monachil - El Dornajo (El Dornajo is rumoured to be a finish in 2013, so hopefully at least Monachil will precede it. This is only a small taster of what could be done with the area around Sierra Nevada).
La Sía - Lunada - Caracol - Estranguada
San Lorenzo - Cobertoria W - Cobertoria E - Ermita de Alba (not sure how feasible an Ermita de Alba finish is, though I'm sure it's steep enough for Guillén to want to find a way. Even if it isn't, because of descending through Cobertoria N via Alto del Cordal, the double Cobertoria climb is feasible - they usually descend the side they would be climbing to the finish here)
Cabra Montés - Las Sabinas - Alguacil (again, something new to do with Sierra Nevada)
Conjuros - Haza del Lino x2 (you'll notice Haza del Lino a lot in fantasy routes. How it's never been in the Vuelta is beyond me, and most other fans)
Fonte da Cova - Llana de las Ovejas (with a small downhill finish to El Morredero, this again is a common double act in Vuelta designs, especially as Ponferrada (which would be at the base of the full length descent) and El Morredero both pay for the Vuelta comparatively frequently but a stage with serious climbs like this gets left off the agenda)
Port del Comte - Banyères - Cantò - Eviny - Port-Ainé
(those ones thanks to Descender)

García - Velefique - Calar Alto
Somiedo - Farrapona - Cobertoria - Cordal - la Vara - Monte Naranco
Jaizkibel - Erlaitz/Castillo del Inglés - Santa Ageda - Mandubia - Lizarrusti - San Miguel de Áralar (concreted and over 8%, I wouldn't be surprised to see San Miguel in the Vuelta soon. Unfortunately I'd expect a flat stage first, or if we're lucky something like Descender suggested with Etxauri and Lizarraga first)
Miserat - Tollos - Tudons - Benimantell - Font de Partagas (again, not sure that Font de Partagas could realistically host the race but it's steep enough and gimmicky enough that I'm sure Guillén would think about it if he could)
Tablones - Canseco - Haza del Lino - Conjuros
(those are mine. I also had a couple of other brutal mountain stages of connecting climbs but they were in Las Canarias so I won't include them)

Lagunas de Neila - las Viniegras - Urbión
Not sure what all of these climbs are without a map, but Fumanya-Pradell is tough enough on its own
Again, not sure what all of thse are without a map but there's lots of them back to back
Almendra - Calar Alto - Velefique - Calar Alto
(thanks to roundabout for those ones)

That's without looking at the options done for Catalunya by Craig, País Vasco by myself or any of the other areas of the country.

http://www.altimetrias.net should be able to while away quite some time realising just how incredible the Vuelta COULD be.


Or going for a new european record. Would love to see something like this. :)

Úbeda - Sª Nevada IRAM

Image

http://plataformarecorridosciclistas.org/2012/10/09/la-vuelta-a-espana-de-los-parques-naturales/
User avatar Lupetto
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05 Jan 2013 23:22

Lupetto wrote:Or going for a new european record. Would love to see something like this. :)

Úbeda - Sª Nevada IRAM

Image

http://plataformarecorridosciclistas.org/2012/10/09/la-vuelta-a-espana-de-los-parques-naturales/


Instead, they're going to stop at km 152 of that and call it a day.
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06 Jan 2013 02:31

What stops them going over 2500m? At what point does the road to Veleta become unusable?
Ferminal
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06 Jan 2013 02:33

Ferminal wrote:What stops them going over 2500m?


Keep the gaps close to the last day to create (artificial) tense
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06 Jan 2013 10:07

According to the magazine DLC, there will possibly be a new clim i the stage of Cantabria ( the previous one to Naranco) and Rabasa is possible before Canolich

http://www.revistadesdelacuneta.com/tengopagina.php?page=archivo0762

They also say that the stage of Angliru will be short and with many difficulties, so perhaps it will be even shorter and easier than the stage of 2011 ( Cabruñana, Tenebredo, Cordal, Angliru). It could be Cordal, Angliru and stop.
apmfbs
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06 Jan 2013 10:41

Ferminal wrote:What stops them going over 2500m? At what point does the road to Veleta become unusable?


As Forunculo said, they're open about their intentions of preventing anything significant from happening until the last climb of the last stage.

In this interview, Olano used the word "sadly" when referring to the Fuente De stage.

http://www.eitb.tv/es/#/video/1847991764001

That proposed stage is a bit risky, though. There is a loop that should be long enough not to create any problems, but I doubt Unipublic would risk it. The roads used are not the Veleta one though, but rather the ones that lead to the Sierra Nevada ski resort and the last bit to the IRAM astronomical observatory. The Veleta road gets tricky at about 2,900 metres aprox. I think. In any case, there is no space at the top.
User avatar Descender
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06 Jan 2013 15:29

alexcta wrote:One more thing I would like to say, you want a stage which ends in the Cobertoria . The race will take long time to finish there, but there is a climb that is close to where it is known that there are more possibilities and is called the Gamoniteiru, a very tough climb


Again , sorry for my bad English !


Hola compatriota, aquí otro asturiano. No te preocupes por el inglés, tampoco el mio es académico.

ASTURIAS PATRIA QUERIDAAAAAAAAAA.
Asturiano
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06 Jan 2013 15:55

alexcta wrote:According to a local newspaper , The Naranco stage will be soft and the stage go along the coast. If the cyclists climb a mountain pass which is called the Violeo, it will be a success because the pass is short, hard (20% in some areas) and narrow. The descent is complicated and has many tricky corners. The Violeo is close to the Naranco .
It is an option and if the Vuelta does that would be great.


Me gusta:D:D
Red Rick
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06 Jan 2013 16:05

apmfbs wrote:According to the magazine DLC, there will possibly be a new clim i the stage of Cantabria ( the previous one to Naranco) and Rabasa is possible before Canolich

http://www.revistadesdelacuneta.com/tengopagina.php?page=archivo0762

They also say that the stage of Angliru will be short and with many difficulties, so perhaps it will be even shorter and easier than the stage of 2011 ( Cabruñana, Tenebredo, Cordal, Angliru). It could be Cordal, Angliru and stop.

A new climb in Cantabria? Anybody care to guess at La Estranguada or Bejes? Both would be 5-6km at 9% or so. Anyone know if there's enough room for a finish at La Capía?
User avatar Libertine Seguros
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06 Jan 2013 20:42

Lupetto wrote:Or going for a new european record. Would love to see something like this. :)

Úbeda - Sª Nevada IRAM

Image

http://plataformarecorridosciclistas.org/2012/10/09/la-vuelta-a-espana-de-los-parques-naturales/


Add Monachil before the two climb and the Vuelta has a queen stage
Red Rick
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