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UCI World Tour Teams for 2013

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29 Oct 2012 23:47

Argos will be really good April/May/June.
Ferminal
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29 Oct 2012 23:53

Ferminal wrote:Argos will be really good April/May/June.


True... I just don't think they do much for the sport (excitement wise). The bright side however is they have some riders who are will be fun to watch:

Deg, Barguil, Ludvigsson, & Rensburg, oh and Ardnt

Kittel is kinda boring for obvious reasons, but he's very anti-doping which is nice.
Moser fanboy.

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User avatar gustienordic
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30 Oct 2012 00:02

Ferminal wrote:Argos will be really good April/May/June.


I concur.Not sure if i am reading too much into things here but are some people not overly impressed with Argos? Is Degenkolb just another sprinter?? If anyone asks Cavendish or Matt Goss their view on Degenkolb, i think you'll find he's held in pretty high esteem,perhaps overshadowed by the emergence of Sagan but he can win more than Vuelta sprints,a future classic winner in my view,guaranteed.Would put my mortgage on it.
User avatar Telmisartan new
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30 Oct 2012 00:07

Degenkolb is held in really high esteem for good reason, but it doesn't mean we should be excited to have this team that can already get invited to all the races it wants anyway go World Tour and bore up a bunch more events. I'm not impressed with Argos not because they don't have good riders, but because they add absolutely zero value to races.

They'll get loads of points anyway. There are a massive amount of races that are easy pickings for a second tier sprinter, and whichever of Kittel and Degenkolb doesn't do the main event races will easily be the pick of the bunch at the second tier races, so they'll pick up a bunch of ranking points the same way André Greipel did in 2009-10.

I hope for more from Degenkolb in the vein of his Paris-Tours ride. That was great.
User avatar Libertine Seguros
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30 Oct 2012 00:13

Libertine Seguros wrote:Degenkolb is held in really high esteem for good reason, but it doesn't mean we should be excited to have this team that can already get invited to all the races it wants anyway go World Tour and bore up a bunch more events. I'm not impressed with Argos not because they don't have good riders, but because they add absolutely zero value to races.

They'll get loads of points anyway. There are a massive amount of races that are easy pickings for a second tier sprinter, and whichever of Kittel and Degenkolb doesn't do the main event races will easily be the pick of the bunch at the second tier races, so they'll pick up a bunch of ranking points the same way André Greipel did in 2009-10.

I hope for more from Degenkolb in the vein of his Paris-Tours ride. That was great.


I stand corrected,what everyone is really saying is that their squad doesn't yet have the depth required in all facets to be worthy of WT status.Who's the two best teams to get the nod for the fans then? FDJ/Saxo?
User avatar Telmisartan new
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30 Oct 2012 13:24

Did anybody see Saxo Bank last year? No, I did not see them eather. They have Contador, but is one rider enough for WT? It's Geox all over again: it's not a bad team, but it will be such a shame to send this squad to the Giro, to Ronde van Vlaanderen, to every race Contador does not compete in.

Argos won't be in the top 5 of LBL eather, but in most stage-races and non-mountain classics they have more to ride for them FDJ, AG2R and Cofidis combined.

Does anybody know more about Lotto and FDJ? They got a license for 2013 but why does everybody assume they won't be kicked out?
Matthijs
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30 Oct 2012 13:29

Matthijs wrote:Did anybody see Saxo Bank last year? No, I did not see them eather. They have Contador, but is one rider enough for WT? It's Geox all over again: it's not a bad team, but it will be such a shame to send this squad to the Giro, to Ronde van Vlaanderen, to every race Contador does not compete in.


You have some reading to do in the transfer thread.
DominicDecoco
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30 Oct 2012 13:35

Matthijs wrote:Did anybody see Saxo Bank last year? No, I did not see them eather. They have Contador, but is one rider enough for WT? It's Geox all over again: it's not a bad team, but it will be such a shame to send this squad to the Giro, to Ronde van Vlaanderen, to every race Contador does not compete in.

No we didn't see much of Saxo Bank last year. But this year they've got Contador, Kreuziger, Bennati, Roche, Breschel and Zaugg added to their lineup.
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User avatar Hugo Koblet
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30 Oct 2012 13:37

Matthijs wrote:Did anybody see Saxo Bank last year? No, I did not see them eather. They have Contador, but is one rider enough for WT? It's Geox all over again: it's not a bad team, but it will be such a shame to send this squad to the Giro, to Ronde van Vlaanderen, to every race Contador does not compete in.

Argos won't be in the top 5 of LBL eather, but in most stage-races and non-mountain classics they have more to ride for them FDJ, AG2R and Cofidis combined.

Does anybody know more about Lotto and FDJ? They got a license for 2013 but why does everybody assume they won't be kicked out?


Contador, Bennati, kreuziguer, roche, majka, breschel, Zaugg and Kump to name a few riders they signed. Overall with Saxo's new signings they will bring a much better and more complete team to the world tour than they other teams like Argos. They will be able to be competitive in a lot more races than Argos will be also.
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30 Oct 2012 14:24

Outside of Kittel and Degenkolb, Argos is a poor man's Greenedge. The team just shows what is wrong with the ranking system, when they would be ahead of Saxo even with Bert...
Cancellara is like The Black Album. Really good but way overrated.
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30 Oct 2012 17:21

Can the teams who already have World Tour licences for next season but are in positions 15-20 be demoted to Pro Continental?
argyllflyer
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30 Oct 2012 17:36

Should be a no brainer.

Saxo, FDJ and Lotto to fill the final 3 spots.
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30 Oct 2012 21:02

what is the method for determining "sporting value"? Is the UCI team ranking different than that?

1 1 SKY PROCYCLING (SKY) GBR 1,767
2 2 KATUSHA TEAM (KAT) RUS 1,273
3 3 LIQUIGAS-CANNONDALE (LIQ) ITA 1,197
4 4 OMEGA PHARMA-QUICKSTEP (OPQ) BEL 1,162
5 5 MOVISTAR TEAM (MOV) ESP 952
6 6 ORICA GREENEDGE (OGE) AUS 920
7 7 BMC RACING TEAM (BMC) USA 917
8 8 RABOBANK CYCLING TEAM (RAB) NED 799
9 9 GARMIN - SHARP (GRS) USA 762
10 11 ASTANA PRO TEAM (AST) KAZ 645
11 10 LOTTO BELISOL TEAM (LTB) BEL 625
12 12 RADIOSHACK-NISSAN (RNT) LUX 619
13 13 EUSKALTEL - EUSKADI (EUS) ESP 555
14 14 LAMPRE - ISD (LAM) ITA 435
15 15 TEAM SAXO BANK-TINKOFF BANK (STB) DEN 401
16 16 VACANSOLEIL-DCM PRO CYCLING TEAM (VCD) NED 364
17 17 AG2R LA MONDIALE (ALM) FRA 315
18 18 FDJ-BIG MAT (FDJ) FRA 246
User avatar Dedelou
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31 Oct 2012 10:06

The sporting value also includes non-WT races. Which is why Euskaltel signed nine Mehdi Sohrabis to get themselves a WT ticket.

Netserk wrote:Outside of Kittel and Degenkolb, Argos is a poor man's Greenedge. The team just shows what is wrong with the ranking system, when they would be ahead of Saxo even with Bert...

I don't think Argos is the problem, Euskaltel is. And the fact that the Saxo riders (apart from Contador) have scored little to no points. You can't ignore that.
theyoungest
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31 Oct 2012 10:15

The whole system is flawed, definitely. You shouldn't be able to buy yourself into the WorldTour. What has happened to Euskaltel for next year should be reason enough. It's sad to see.
Ryo Hazuki wrote:contador is such a coward :o
User avatar Hugo Koblet
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31 Oct 2012 10:30

I want either:

A: Back to the time, when financial security was the most important in handing out licenses.

OR

B: A sporting value where all the points stay with the team (and ex-dopers can score points, as they already have been sanctioned, and you can't/shouldn't get punished for the same crime twice)
Cancellara is like The Black Album. Really good but way overrated.
User avatar Netserk
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31 Oct 2012 10:43

Netserk wrote:I want either:

A: Back to the time, when financial security was the most important in handing out licenses.

OR

B: A sporting value where all the points stay with the team (and ex-dopers can score points, as they already have been sanctioned, and you can't/shouldn't get punished for the same crime twice)

Would you say the same when these two rules didn't favour Saxo? Saxo sans Contador have been really, really poor. You could argue that it wasn't a team worthy of WT-status.
theyoungest
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31 Oct 2012 10:46

theyoungest wrote:Would you say the same when these two rules didn't favour Saxo? Saxo sans Contador have been really, really poor. You could argue that it wasn't a team worthy of WT-status.


The thing is; It was in 2011 and will be in 2013.
DominicDecoco
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31 Oct 2012 11:10

theyoungest wrote:Would you say the same when these two rules didn't favour Saxo? Saxo sans Contador have been really, really poor. You could argue that it wasn't a team worthy of WT-status.


His second rule is only half in favour of Saxo. If you follow that rule, the points of all those new riders wouldn't count.
Dutchsmurf
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31 Oct 2012 12:09

DominicDecoco wrote:The thing is; It was in 2011 and will be in 2013.

Because they brought on a few riders who have done virtually nothing in their own right, these past two years?

Look, personally I think Saxo should get the nod ahead of Argos, if only for Contador. But Breschel and Bennati don't deserve a WT spot more than Degenkolb.
theyoungest
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