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Last world tour spot to be decided between Saxo and Shimano?

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22 Nov 2012 16:17

theyoungest wrote:Saxo were better on paper this season as well. However, in the actual races they simply sucked. And to solve that problem they signed some riders who are great on paper, but also sucked (Breschel, Bennati, Kreuziger). For next year I'd definitely expect more in the classics from Degenkolb than Breschel/Bennati.

That leaves a choice between one of the best stage racing teams (built around Contador) vs. one of the best sprinting teams (built around Kittel/Degenkolb). It's a cr.pshoot.


yeah with contador in it they were and showed they were (winning vuelta)
User avatar Ryo Hazuki
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22 Nov 2012 16:44

Easy solution: increase WT to 20 teams.

Reduce GT teams from 9 to 8.

Reduce classic teams from 8 to 7.
Ryo Hazuki wrote:horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato


The Hitch wrote:Goss will woop boonens candy a[color="Black"]ss[/color] in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
User avatar El Pistolero
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22 Nov 2012 16:45

El Pistolero wrote:Easy solution: increase WT to 20 teams.

Reduce GT teams from 9 to 8.

Reduce classic teams from 8 to 7.

Better yet:

GT: 6

Classic: 5
Cancellara is like The Black Album. Really good but way overrated.
User avatar Netserk
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22 Nov 2012 16:46

Netserk wrote:Better yet:

GT: 6

Classic: 5


Nah, 5 man teams and you get scenario's where nobodies can win because no one can control the race.
Ryo Hazuki wrote:horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato


The Hitch wrote:Goss will woop boonens candy a[color="Black"]ss[/color] in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
User avatar El Pistolero
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22 Nov 2012 16:51

El Pistolero wrote:Nah, 5 man teams and you get scenario's where nobodies can win because no one can control the race.

Or where race favourites will have to open up earlier to eliminate nobodies from the win ;) Perhaps riders won't wait for Roche aux Faucons before making a move in L-B-L :)
Cancellara is like The Black Album. Really good but way overrated.
User avatar Netserk
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22 Nov 2012 16:51

Final 3 spots will go to:
Lotto-Belisol
Saxo-Tinkoff
Argos-Shimano
roadbiker
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22 Nov 2012 16:54

Netserk wrote:Or where race favourites will have to open up earlier to eliminate nobodies from the win ;) Perhaps riders won't wait for Roche aux Faucons before making a move in L-B-L :)


With notorious wheelsuckers like Valverde, I'll pass lol.

Nah, it will just be your typical Olympic road race. I found the 2004-2008 events rather boring(and the most impressive thing, Cancellara's come-back, was barely shown on camera). 2012 was good given the course it was run on, but I was bummed by the fact that so many good riders just weren't willing to race actively. Instead they preferred to look at Team GB all day.
Ryo Hazuki wrote:horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato


The Hitch wrote:Goss will woop boonens candy a[color="Black"]ss[/color] in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
User avatar El Pistolero
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22 Nov 2012 17:01

Ryo Hazuki wrote:yeah with contador in it they were and showed they were (winning vuelta)


indeed, saxo had a team of fantastic domestiques but most of them don't have a leader's mentality, mostly because they have never been one. Guys like nicki sorensen, paulinho, pires, hernandes and navarro really make a difference on a team in while working for some1 but hardly get results themselves.
User avatar Parrulo
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22 Nov 2012 17:11

Pure sprinters team vs. one man GT Team who's main objective is the tour?

Easy decision if you ask me.
biopass
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22 Nov 2012 17:13

Kittel is one of the most boring riders in the peloton in my opinion. Wasn't even that good of a sprinter this year. He's definitely not real WT material yet if you ask me...

Degenkolb is so much better though.
Ryo Hazuki wrote:horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato


The Hitch wrote:Goss will woop boonens candy a[color="Black"]ss[/color] in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
User avatar El Pistolero
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22 Nov 2012 17:18

El Pistolero wrote:Easy solution: increase WT to 20 teams.

Reduce GT teams from 9 to 8.

Reduce classic teams from 8 to 7.


no, a much better solution is decrease to 12 teams or 15 at the most.
User avatar Ryo Hazuki
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22 Nov 2012 17:24

or simply end the nonsense know as the world tour. . . .
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22 Nov 2012 17:25

El Pistolero wrote:Kittel is one of the most boring riders in the peloton in my opinion. Wasn't even that good of a sprinter this year. He's definitely not real WT material yet if you ask me...


I think you're wrong. Of course Kittel wasn't very good in the Tour, which is bad luck and makes his season look not that good, and looking solely at results, no, his 2012 wasn't that good, but still very decent.

He was a very good sprinter this year though. Just take a look at his results against Greipel and Cavendish.

vs Greipel:

Tour of Oman stage 1: Kittel 4 - Greipel 1
Tour of Oman stage 3: Kittel 1 - Greipel 2
Driedaagse De Panne-Koksijde stage 2: Kittel 1 - Greipel 5
Scheldeprijs: Kittel 1 - Greipel 12
Ster ZLM Tour stage 1: Kittel 1 - Greipel 6
Ster ZLM Tour stage 2: Kittel 6 - Greipel 1
(Vattenfall Cyclassics: Kittel 112 - Greipel 2)
Memorial Rik Van Steenbergen: Kittel 17 - Greipel 4
GP Impanis - Van Petegem: Kittel 7 - Greipel 1
(Circuit Franco-Belge stage 2: Kittel 1 - Greipel 19)
Münsterland-Giro: Kittel 1 - Greipel 10

vs Cavendish:

Tour of Oman stage 3: Kittel 1 - Cavendish 8
Tour of Oman stage 6: Kittel 1 - Cavendish 14
Ster ZLM Tour stage 1: Kittel 1 - Cavendish 3
Ster ZLM Tour stage 2: Kittel 6 - Cavendish 2
Ster ZLM Tour stage 4: Kittel 1 - Cavendish 16

If he isn't good enough for WT, which sprinters, besides Greipel and Cavendish, are then? I guess Sagan, but who else?
Ryo Hazuki wrote:contador is such a coward :o
User avatar Hugo Koblet
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22 Nov 2012 17:33

kittel is a VERY limited sprinter. he can't climb for ****, lacks the engine to do anything in races around 200 km of any good level. will never have a chance in any classics, also sucks on cobbles. basically he's a lesser version of greipel. only in speed they are somewhat close, but I don't see kittel winning many gt stages, ever in his career.
User avatar Ryo Hazuki
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22 Nov 2012 17:42

Ryo Hazuki wrote:yeah with contador in it they were and showed they were (winning vuelta)

Yes, Saxo (a GC team) won the Vuelta. Argos (a sprinting team) won 5 stages. Each did very well in their own specialty.
theyoungest
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22 Nov 2012 17:45

theyoungest wrote:Yes, Saxo (a GC team) won the Vuelta. Argos (a sprinting team) won 5 stages. Each did very well in their own specialty.

I dare say that the GC competition was far stronger than the sprinting one ;)
Cancellara is like The Black Album. Really good but way overrated.
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22 Nov 2012 17:50

Netserk wrote:I dare say that the GC competition was far stronger than the sprinting one ;)

Don't know, the best stage racer of the season wasn't there. And the arguably second best was past his peak.
theyoungest
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22 Nov 2012 17:51

theyoungest wrote:Don't know, the best stage racer of the season wasn't there. And the arguably second best was past his peak.

And amongst the sprinters were Bennati, who won a bunch sprint....
Cancellara is like The Black Album. Really good but way overrated.
User avatar Netserk
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22 Nov 2012 17:54

Hugo Koblet wrote:I think you're wrong. Of course Kittel wasn't very good in the Tour, which is bad luck and makes his season look not that good, and looking solely at results, no, his 2012 wasn't that good, but still very decent.

He was a very good sprinter this year though. Just take a look at his results against Greipel and Cavendish.

vs Greipel:

Tour of Oman stage 1: Kittel 4 - Greipel 1
Tour of Oman stage 3: Kittel 1 - Greipel 2
Driedaagse De Panne-Koksijde stage 2: Kittel 1 - Greipel 5
Scheldeprijs: Kittel 1 - Greipel 12
Ster ZLM Tour stage 1: Kittel 1 - Greipel 6
Ster ZLM Tour stage 2: Kittel 6 - Greipel 1
(Vattenfall Cyclassics: Kittel 112 - Greipel 2)
Memorial Rik Van Steenbergen: Kittel 17 - Greipel 4
GP Impanis - Van Petegem: Kittel 7 - Greipel 1
(Circuit Franco-Belge stage 2: Kittel 1 - Greipel 19)
Münsterland-Giro: Kittel 1 - Greipel 10

vs Cavendish:

Tour of Oman stage 3: Kittel 1 - Cavendish 8
Tour of Oman stage 6: Kittel 1 - Cavendish 14
Ster ZLM Tour stage 1: Kittel 1 - Cavendish 3
Ster ZLM Tour stage 2: Kittel 6 - Cavendish 2
Ster ZLM Tour stage 4: Kittel 1 - Cavendish 16

If he isn't good enough for WT, which sprinters, besides Greipel and Cavendish, are then? I guess Sagan, but who else?


How many WT races did he win? Exactly, only 2. I'm not saying he's not good enough to be in a WT team, I'm saying he hasn't really proven much yet in WT races. He might as well stay in a procontinal team and get a wildcard for a GT and WT stage races like Poland and Eneco Tour.
Ryo Hazuki wrote:horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato


The Hitch wrote:Goss will woop boonens candy a[color="Black"]ss[/color] in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
User avatar El Pistolero
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22 Nov 2012 18:22

El Pistolero wrote:How many WT races did he win? Exactly, only 2. I'm not saying he's not good enough to be in a WT team, I'm saying he hasn't really proven much yet in WT races. He might as well stay in a procontinal team and get a wildcard for a GT and WT stage races like Poland and Eneco Tour.


Greipel has won exactly 6 WT stages, half of which he won Down Under.(the other half are Tour stages ofc) The rest of his victories are just small races just like Kittel's. How impressive is that. :rolleyes:
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