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Last world tour spot to be decided between Saxo and Shimano?

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22 Nov 2012 18:32

El Pistolero wrote:How many WT races did he win? Exactly, only 2. I'm not saying he's not good enough to be in a WT team, I'm saying he hasn't really proven much yet in WT races. He might as well stay in a procontinal team and get a wildcard for a GT and WT stage races like Poland and Eneco Tour.

Well, you can't win the races you aren't invited to. Last year he raced in two WorldTour-races (besides the Worlds and PR) and won one stage in the Vuelta and four stages in Tour of Poland.

This year he raced in three WorldTour-races (besides the oneday races) and won two stages in the Eneco Tour.

Plus he's shown that he's got the speed to compete with the top sprinters, Greipel and Cavendish.

Anyway, I just interpreted your comment "He's definitely not real WT material" more like "he's not good enough to be in a WT team" than "he hasn't really proven much yet in WT races". I guess you can see why that interpretation is the most obvious one.

I get your point though, but it would fit on most sprinters then. Kittel is, in my opinion at least, definitely among the best sprinters in the peloton and hence deserves to be on a ProTeam.
Ryo Hazuki wrote:contador is such a coward :o
User avatar Hugo Koblet
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22 Nov 2012 18:36

Ryo Hazuki wrote:what talents do they have then(general question)? the team is a joke and in every mountainstage every rider finishes in the bus


The same goes for Greenedge, but somehow they managed to win 2 WT stage races and a monument.

On the other hand, I resented the amount of invites Argos were able to get last year when their contribution to the races was virtually nil. I can count on one hand the amount of races that really benefited from their presence... Paris-Tours, and... erm... er... I'll get back to you.

I won't miss them if they're not WT. Probably cos they'll be invited to every race anyway.
User avatar Libertine Seguros
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22 Nov 2012 18:50

How many sprinter-oriented teams are in the WT? Two? Three?
How many GT-classement oriented teams are in the WT? A dozen?

So I'll cheer of course for Argos. :)
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22 Nov 2012 18:51

Libertine Seguros wrote:
I won't miss them if they're not WT. Probably cos they'll be invited to every race anyway.


Same for Saxo, so this is not an argument.
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22 Nov 2012 18:54

Bye Bye Bicycle wrote:Same for Saxo, so this is not an argument.

Saxo won't be invited to races, where you won't be able to see them. Argos will.
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22 Nov 2012 19:00

I think both Saxo and Argos deserve a spot in the world tour, but since only one of them can have that spot I hope it goes to Saxo. Argos for the most part will bring sprinter and possibly some classic contenders for the cobbles and MSR. They do have some promising U23 talents that could become good climbers or GC riders, but I doubt those riders will be contending for GC in their first season in the pro ranks (plus racing continental could be better for them). Saxo will bring a lot more to the WT, they have a much wider variety of riders, and can contend in more races. So I am hoping they get the spot.
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22 Nov 2012 21:16

Netserk wrote:Saxo won't be invited to races, where you won't be able to see them.

The Ardennes classics? And, if Breschel's knee gives in again, the cobbled classics?
theyoungest
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22 Nov 2012 21:34

theyoungest wrote:The Ardennes classics? And, if Breschel's knee gives in again, the cobbled classics?


Kreuziger was fourth in LBL last year if I remember correctly. That's good enough to get a wildcard. And if they bring Contador that would be even better. I think Contador will be there for Flèche Wallonne, but I'm not so sure about the other 2 classics.

Breschel is also good enough for Saxobank to deserve a wildcard for the cobbled classics. If his knee gives in, too bad! **** happens.

There's usually plenty of wildcards available for one day races. It's only problematic for GTs in my opinion.
Ryo Hazuki wrote:horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato


The Hitch wrote:Goss will woop boonens candy a[color="Black"]ss[/color] in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
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22 Nov 2012 22:19

theyoungest wrote:Don't know, the best stage racer of the season wasn't there. And the arguably second best was past his peak.


Now you are just being silly. The sprinters line up at the Vuelta was absolutely appalling. It was like watching Argos club baby seals.
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22 Nov 2012 22:31

theyoungest wrote:Yes, Saxo (a GC team) won the Vuelta. Argos (a sprinting team) won 5 stages. Each did very well in their own specialty.


argos also rode the tour with their a squad wn were the joke of that tour. argos were a joke in every wt race they ended, bar the vuelta, which had the worst sprinter participation of any gt in recent years :o
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22 Nov 2012 22:31

Pentacycle wrote:Greipel has won exactly 6 WT stages, half of which he won Down Under.(the other half are Tour stages ofc) The rest of his victories are just small races just like Kittel's. How impressive is that. :rolleyes:


3 tour stages against top competion >>>>>>> anything kittel or anyone at argos has ever done
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22 Nov 2012 22:49

Thats easy....Saxo/Tinkoff ofcourse.They have more to offer in Grand Tours and im looking forward to Riis/Contador smashing all riders come july...:D
blaxland
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22 Nov 2012 23:17

theyoungest wrote:Saxo were better on paper this season as well. However, in the actual races they simply sucked. And to solve that problem they signed some riders who are great on paper, but also sucked (Breschel, Bennati, Kreuziger). For next year I'd definitely expect more in the classics from Degenkolb than Breschel/Bennati.

That leaves a choice between one of the best stage racing teams (built around Contador) vs. one of the best sprinting teams (built around Kittel/Degenkolb). It's a cr.pshoot.


Well to help in this difficult decision: you have on one side the generations greatest stage racer vs. a team with 2 2nd tier (but promising) young sprinters. You have a team that can be a factor in the overall in WT stage races, week long and the grand tours and you have a team that can win a few stages here and there if they're lucky.

If the decision was based solely on performance in WT events it's not hard to decide who should get the call.
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23 Nov 2012 00:43

"From a sportive perspective" (Thanks, Matty Lloyd), I´d prefer Saxo, who´ve a great roster for 2013. Yet, would be glad to see Riis and Tinkov go down to 2nd division.

Normally, Saxo should get the spot. Argos get their wildcards anyways, Tour and Vuelta guaranteed, and their lineup is so much weaker than Saxo´s.

Though, I could imagine UCI wants to punish mainly Tinkov for his sharp critizism towards McQuaid and Verbruggen.
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23 Nov 2012 01:06

RHRH19861986 wrote:"From a sportive perspective" (Thanks, Matty Lloyd), I´d prefer Saxo, who´ve a great roster for 2013. Yet, would be glad to see Riis and Tinkov go down to 2nd division.

Normally, Saxo should get the spot. Argos get their wildcards anyways, Tour and Vuelta guaranteed, and their lineup is so much weaker than Saxo´s.

Though, I could imagine UCI wants to punish mainly Tinkov for his sharp critizism towards McQuaid and Verbruggen.


What did Tinkov say?
The Hitch: Winner 2013 Vuelta cq game. Winner, Velorooms prediction game 2012, 2013. 2nd all time cq rankings.
The Father of Clean Cycling, Christophe Bassons wrote:When I look at cycling today, I get the impression that history is repeating itself: riders who are supposed to be rouleurs are climbing passes at the front of the race, and those who are supposed to be climbers are riding time trials at more than 50 kilometres per hour.

The story is beginning again, just as it did 14 years ago


journalist with integrity.
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23 Nov 2012 01:27

The Hitch wrote:What did Tinkov say?


:D he said

Cycling will be better now without Bryneel,Armstrong and other cheaters.We all knew they doped.Now cycling need to get rid of UCI management


Here
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23 Nov 2012 02:10

Funny that even in the TDU there's only two Kittel stages next year.

Although his autobus antics from California could really add something to a Dauphine or Suisse.

If only Degenkolb could do 150 days :D

If I wanted to be talking up Argos' squad I'd be looking more at RJvR, Mezgec, Veelers, Dumoulin. These are the guys with potential to add something in WT races behind their two leaders.
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24 Nov 2012 07:43

theyoungest wrote: And to solve that problem they signed some riders who are great on paper, but also sucked (Breschel, Bennati, Kreuziger). For next year I'd definitely expect more in the classics from Degenkolb than Breschel/Bennati.

That leaves a choice between one of the best stage racing teams (built around Contador) vs. one of the best sprinting teams (built around Kittel/Degenkolb). It's a cr.pshoot.

Don't worry all those riders will perform well next year. Bennati i think could win SB, Kreuziger could go well at the Ardennes and Breschel could top 5 in one of RVV/ P-R.

I want Saxo to get the spot.
I'd agree with you but then we'd both be wrong

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greenedge
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24 Nov 2012 09:59

greenedge wrote:Don't worry all those riders will perform well next year. Bennati i think could win SB, Kreuziger could go well at the Ardennes and Breschel could top 5 in one of RVV/ P-R.

I want Saxo to get the spot.

SB?


10char
theyoungest
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24 Nov 2012 10:10

theyoungest wrote:SB?


10char


Strade Bianche I guess
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