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Sportsmanship: a comparative case study

A place to discuss all things related to current professional road races. Here, you can also touch on the latest news relating to professional road racing. A doping discussion free forum.

Who was right, who was wrong?

Luiz Adriano and Contador were right
7
21%
Luiz Adriano and Contador were wrong
3
9%
Luiz Adriano was right, Contador was wrong
1
3%
Luiz Adriano was wrong, Contador was right
23
68%
 
Total votes : 34

22 Nov 2012 20:32

Eshnar wrote:He couldn't, because rules don't include this situation.


I know, so he didn't do anything wrong. Either re-write the rules(and you still won't be able to punish him then) or drop the fair play act.
Ryo Hazuki wrote:horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato


The Hitch wrote:Goss will woop boonens candy a[color="Black"]ss[/color] in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
User avatar El Pistolero
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22 Nov 2012 20:36

El Pistolero wrote:With Cancellara a deal with the officials was also struck. What's the difference? Same goes for the Vino case.

Or do you guys really think there aren't any "referees" during a cycling race?

If there was a deal the referee should've handled it better . ;)


this is hillarious, you know nothing about football (and i dont blame you, i dont really like it much either) but you cant resist pretending to be omniscient so you change every single thing mentioned in this thread into a cycling analogy.

Cycling is a chaotic sport where 25 teams and 180 riders are facing eachother at any 1 point that takes place over many km and can have many geographical locations where things can be happening at the same time.

Football is beteen 2 teams with 1 focus point the ball and 1 central authority figure.

Can you understand the difference and the reason why you wont be able to win the argument by twisting everything into a totally unrelated sport with its own rules and systems and customs.

Cycling and football are about as distantly related as any 2 sports can be so your lectures on what happened to Cancellara or EBH or whoever the **** have 0 to do with Luis Adrianos behaviour in a the football game.
The Hitch: Winner 2013 Vuelta cq game. Winner, Velorooms prediction game 2012, 2013. 2nd all time cq rankings.
The Father of Clean Cycling, Christophe Bassons wrote:When I look at cycling today, I get the impression that history is repeating itself: riders who are supposed to be rouleurs are climbing passes at the front of the race, and those who are supposed to be climbers are riding time trials at more than 50 kilometres per hour.

The story is beginning again, just as it did 14 years ago


journalist with integrity.
User avatar The Hitch
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22 Nov 2012 20:37

El Pistolero wrote:I know, so he didn't do anything wrong. Either re-write the rules(and you still won't be able to punish him then) or drop the fair play act.


He won't be punished, indeed, as he didn't break any rule.

But we're talking of sportsmanship, not bad ruling.
A race that doesn't give an attacker the chance to finish it off alone is not a race anymore.


Bronze Medal at the Great Grand Tour Game 2012

WARNING: Location says Germany, but I'm Italian...
User avatar Eshnar
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22 Nov 2012 20:38

The Hitch wrote:this is hillarious, you know nothing about football (and i dont blame you, i dont really like it much either) but you cant resist pretending to be omniscient so you change every single thing mentioned in this thread into a cycling analogy.

Cycling is a chaotic sport where 25 teams and 180 riders are facing eachother at any 1 point and many points where things can be happening at once.

Football is beteen 2 teams with 1 focus point the ball and 1 central authority figure.

Can you understand the difference and the reason why you wont be able to win the argument by twisting everything into a totally unrelated sport with its own rules and systems and customs.

Cycling and football are about as distantly related as any 2 sports can be so your lectures on what happened to Cancellara or EBH or whoever the **** have 0 to do with Luis Adrianos behaviour in a the football game.


Uhm, read the topic: it's all about comparing the 2 sports. Whether or not you think that is possible I don't care. If you don't feel like comparing the 2 sports then get out of this thread and don't post?

What's the situation:

-Someone broke an oral agreement between teams and officials with no legal binding.

Yeah, that can never happen in cycling. :rolleyes:

*cough* Vino *cough*
Ryo Hazuki wrote:horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato


The Hitch wrote:Goss will woop boonens candy a[color="Black"]ss[/color] in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
User avatar El Pistolero
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22 Nov 2012 20:41

El Pistolero wrote:With Cancellara a deal with the officials was also struck. What's the difference? Same goes for the Vino case.

Or do you guys really think there aren't any "referees" during a cycling race?

If there was a deal the referee should've handled it better . ;)

If what Luis did was against the rules then the referee should've taken action. He didn't, so what's the problem exactly? It's not like he didn't see it.


Was Maradona right to handball against England in mexico in 86?

Yes because in 2010 Belgium Vino paid Kolobnev to win LBL.

Welcome to Pistrollero's world.
The Hitch: Winner 2013 Vuelta cq game. Winner, Velorooms prediction game 2012, 2013. 2nd all time cq rankings.
The Father of Clean Cycling, Christophe Bassons wrote:When I look at cycling today, I get the impression that history is repeating itself: riders who are supposed to be rouleurs are climbing passes at the front of the race, and those who are supposed to be climbers are riding time trials at more than 50 kilometres per hour.

The story is beginning again, just as it did 14 years ago


journalist with integrity.
User avatar The Hitch
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Location: London.

22 Nov 2012 20:42

El Pistolero wrote:Uhm, read the topic: it's all about comparing the 2 sports. Whether or not you think that is possible I don't care. If you don't feel like comparing the 2 sports then get out of this thread and don't post?

What's the situation:

-Someone broke an oral agreement between teams and officials with no legal binding.

Yeah, that can never happen in cycling. :rolleyes:

*cough* Vino *cough*

Did ALL the teams agree? If so, whoever broke the agreement is wrong. Quite straightforward.
A race that doesn't give an attacker the chance to finish it off alone is not a race anymore.


Bronze Medal at the Great Grand Tour Game 2012

WARNING: Location says Germany, but I'm Italian...
User avatar Eshnar
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22 Nov 2012 20:42

Eshnar wrote:He won't be punished, indeed, as he didn't break any rule.

But we're talking of sportsmanship, not bad ruling.


In both situations they used the misfortune of their opponents to get a personal advantage. If you're cool with the Contador case you should also be cool with this otherwise you're acting like a hypocrite in my opinion.

Eshnar wrote:Did ALL the teams agree? If so, whoever broke the agreement is wrong. Quite straightforward.


All the riders that rode the Tour in 2007 signed a contract with ASO that they wouldn't take doping and pay their yearly salary if they get caught anyway. Some riders paid that prize, but Vino refused and took it to court. The contract was not legally binding and he didn't need to pay even though he agreed in the first place. Same situation as with this football player don't you think? Yet Hitch doesn't mind supporting Vino.

This is what this thread is about isn't it? Comparing cases from cycling with the football incident? Vino is a hero here, those people shouldn't villainize Luiz Adriano now.
Ryo Hazuki wrote:horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato


The Hitch wrote:Goss will woop boonens candy a[color="Black"]ss[/color] in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
User avatar El Pistolero
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22 Nov 2012 20:48

El Pistolero wrote:In both situations they used the misfortune of their opponents to get a personal advantage. If you're cool with the Contador case you should also be cool with this otherwise you're acting like a hypocrite in my opinion.



All the riders that rode the Tour in 2007 signed a contract with ASO that they wouldn't take doping and pay their yearly salary if they get caught anyway. Some riders paid that prize, but Vino refused and took it to court. The contract was not legally binding and he didn't need to pay even though he agreed in the first place. Same situation as with this football player don't you think? Yet Hitch doesn't mind supporting Vino.


So Vino is ethically wrong (in my view ofc)
But AC was absolutely right.
A race that doesn't give an attacker the chance to finish it off alone is not a race anymore.


Bronze Medal at the Great Grand Tour Game 2012

WARNING: Location says Germany, but I'm Italian...
User avatar Eshnar
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22 Nov 2012 20:48

El Pistolero wrote:Uhm, read the topic: it's all about comparing the 2 sports.


No the thread is about 2 incidents. Thats Schlecks chain in 2010, not your grudge against Vino denying Gilbert 3rd place at 2010 lbl or ebh or any of that.
The Hitch: Winner 2013 Vuelta cq game. Winner, Velorooms prediction game 2012, 2013. 2nd all time cq rankings.
The Father of Clean Cycling, Christophe Bassons wrote:When I look at cycling today, I get the impression that history is repeating itself: riders who are supposed to be rouleurs are climbing passes at the front of the race, and those who are supposed to be climbers are riding time trials at more than 50 kilometres per hour.

The story is beginning again, just as it did 14 years ago


journalist with integrity.
User avatar The Hitch
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Location: London.

22 Nov 2012 20:49

http://shakhtar.com/en/news/24590

Apparently Adriano disagrees with El Pistolero...
Cancellara is like The Black Album. Really good but way overrated.
User avatar Netserk
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22 Nov 2012 20:54

Netserk wrote:http://shakhtar.com/en/news/24590

Apparently Adriano disagrees with El Pistolero...


Ah, a public apology.

Greg Lemond once apologized to Amstrong because he accused him of doping. Does that mean Greg Lemond is wrong now? Or that he was pressured to make that apology by someone bigger than him? *cough* Trek *cough* *cough* Armstrong *cough*

I hope you have better arguments.

The Hitch wrote:No the thread is about 2 incidents. Thats Schlecks chain in 2010, not your grudge against Vino denying Gilbert 3rd place at 2010 lbl or ebh or any of that.


Yes, 2 incidents from 2 different sports compared to each other. I don't need to explain you the meaning of the word comparative do I? Where does it state I cannot use an analogy as an argument?
Ryo Hazuki wrote:horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato


The Hitch wrote:Goss will woop boonens candy a[color="Black"]ss[/color] in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
User avatar El Pistolero
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22 Nov 2012 21:08

Another difference between the 2 is that chaingate cost andy the tour. This goal probably didnt affect the outcome much in a game that wasnt even that important.

Yet there is such an outcry. Why? cos everyone can see it was messed up

El Pistolero wrote: Where does it state I cannot use an analogy as an argument?


You can use what you want, im just telling you that justifying what happened on Tuesday with "They attacked when Ebh took a **** in the Tour of Oman" doesn't make any sense.

The 2 incidents have no similarities.
The Hitch: Winner 2013 Vuelta cq game. Winner, Velorooms prediction game 2012, 2013. 2nd all time cq rankings.
The Father of Clean Cycling, Christophe Bassons wrote:When I look at cycling today, I get the impression that history is repeating itself: riders who are supposed to be rouleurs are climbing passes at the front of the race, and those who are supposed to be climbers are riding time trials at more than 50 kilometres per hour.

The story is beginning again, just as it did 14 years ago


journalist with integrity.
User avatar The Hitch
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Posts: 27,077
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Location: London.

22 Nov 2012 21:10

If you draw your sword first then drop it....tough!! Abandony Schleck got what they deserved after their shenanigans on the earlier stages Alberto was spot on.

What's this other thing you're talking about?? Whats soccer..:rolleyes:
I'm in shape...Round is a shape
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http://www.justcycling.myfastforum.org
User avatar Siriuscat
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22 Nov 2012 21:12

I think Adriano was wrong, but the other team deserved to be scored on anyway for delaying the game with such a pathetic "injury". Guy falls down in a crumpled heap like his face had been melted off with acid, game stops, guy jumps up and is back in the game like nothing happened.

Isn't THAT a violation of "fair play"?

That's almost as bad as intentionally crashing one's track bike just to get a chance to redo the start, when it is in the spirit of "fair play" that the re-start rule was ever devised.
silverrocket
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22 Nov 2012 21:17

The Hitch wrote:Another difference between the 2 is that chaingate cost andy the tour. This goal probably didnt affect the outcome much in a game that wasnt even that important.

Yet there is such an outcry. Why? cos everyone can see it was messed up



You can use what you want, im just telling you that justifying what happened on Tuesday with "They attacked when Ebh took a **** in the Tour of Oman" doesn't make any sense.

The 2 incidents have no similarities.


There was no outcry, or a small one, when Andy got time on Contador at the cobbled stage. Yet there was a big outcry when Contador did the same to Andy. ;)

You tell me why. Double standards? Or people being stupid? According to Einstein it's the latter.

Some football fans could kill each other because they lost a match. I'm not sure why you're even using them as an argument. They make a big fuss about a sport and are willing to go very far for that. How many football riots have we witnessed already? I wouldn't dare go to a big football match without a whole police force guarding the safety of everyone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8_QpNue5S8

What football player are you going to blame for being unfair here? Such a big outcry, what did everybody see that was so messed up? Or are you willing to admit football fans make a big fuss about nothing.
Ryo Hazuki wrote:horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato


The Hitch wrote:Goss will woop boonens candy a[color="Black"]ss[/color] in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
User avatar El Pistolero
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22 Nov 2012 22:19

silverrocket wrote:I think Adriano was wrong, but the other team deserved to be scored on anyway for delaying the game with such a pathetic "injury". Guy falls down in a crumpled heap like his face had been melted off with acid, game stops, guy jumps up and is back in the game like nothing happened.

Isn't THAT a violation of "fair play"?

That's almost as bad as intentionally crashing one's track bike just to get a chance to redo the start, when it is in the spirit of "fair play" that the re-start rule was ever devised.



indeed, what i saw was a guy faking an injury to stop the game and maybe try to get one of the shaktar guys expelled for an aggression and then being but hurt because the other team didn't have any fair play. . . . honestly as much as i like football, the sport is filled with false fair play and hypocrisy.

you go luiz adriano.

as for contador, lol this again. still have fire in your tummy for things that happened 2 and a half years ago christian?
User avatar Parrulo
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22 Nov 2012 22:44

Parrulo wrote:indeed, what i saw was a guy faking an injury to stop the game and maybe try to get one of the shaktar guys expelled for an aggression and then being but hurt because the other team didn't have any fair play. . . . honestly as much as i like football, the sport is filled with false fair play and hypocrisy.


But why should he try to stop the game? His team had the ball. And how can you tell he wasn't elbowed in solar plexus?
User avatar Magnus
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23 Nov 2012 17:27

Magnus wrote:But why should he try to stop the game? His team had the ball. And how can you tell he wasn't elbowed in solar plexus?


The video clearly show that he collided face-into-shoulder with the other guy, and was holding his face as he flopped around on the ground. Video also shows him smiling as soon as he stood up. His "crippling face injury" was quite fleeting, wasn't it?!
silverrocket
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23 Nov 2012 20:39

El Pistolero wrote:Not my problem they're fools.

Everyone with a little ounce of vision saw that he was going for the goal to score. They didn't even try to do anything, probably because they thought the referee would back them up, I call that being lazy. I've even read interviews that a player of the Danish team thought the Ukrainian team would give them a goal for free after this. Lmao. No wonder they lost.

Anyway, I really don't care about football because of all the faking that goes on to try and get the referee to hand out penalties, yellow cards or red cards. Just play ball and take a hit once in a while.


This ignorance is baffling. There are no words.
DominicDecoco
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23 Nov 2012 20:41

DominicDecoco wrote:This ignorance is baffling. There are no words.


Hilarious post. Though not nearly as hilarious as the bad acting of that player on the Danish team. Sour losers.

Don't they teach you not to trust strangers in Denmark? Just wondering. This was a move the Greeks themselves would be proud of.
Ryo Hazuki wrote:horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato


The Hitch wrote:Goss will woop boonens candy a[color="Black"]ss[/color] in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
User avatar El Pistolero
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