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Better Cobblestone rider: Boonen or Cancellara?

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Better Cobblestone rider: Boonen or Cancellara?

Poll ended at 23 Jan 2013 21:19

Boonen
76
52%
Cancellara
70
48%
 
Total votes : 146

07 Dec 2012 14:06

The Hitch wrote:You said only canc and phinney " have any potential in roubaix".

So g has no.potential in roubaix? He won the u23 version came 2nd in the tdf stage and was ****ing awessome.in flanders last year, but hey no.potential in roubaix if you say so.

btw you do realize he missed this year because he had a more important goal.to focus on. And last year he crashed a bunch of.times but hey, only boonen is allowed.to use bad luck as an excuse for 2011 right?


I ask you again, what the hell has Geraint ever done during a one day classic? He's only been good in one race during a classic. And he wasn't "****ing awesome", he was just good. So was Staf Scheirlinckx.

If Geraint Thomas has any potential at Roubaix he has never shown it hence I did not include him. Come back next year. ;)

Boonen got second in the U23 version of LBL. Does this mean he has potential for LBL? Strange argument you have there. How many people who won Roubaix for espoirs have gone on to win the real thing by the way?

2nd in a Tour stage. Yeah, that's good. But it was on the easy pavé sectors of Roubaix and 95% of the peloton got eliminated early on because of crashes. Further more, Cancellara was slaving for Andy Schleck and not riding for him self and Boonen wasn't there. Ballan had his bad year and Pippo wasn't there either.
Ryo Hazuki wrote:horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato


The Hitch wrote:Goss will woop boonens candy a[color="Black"]ss[/color] in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
User avatar El Pistolero
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07 Dec 2012 14:17

Afrank wrote:Time trialing is more than just lots of training on a TT bike, being aero, and knowing the route. You have to have the strength and mentality to keep yourself going at a hard pace (close to, at, or even above your max) over a given distance. And this is the part of time trialing that will help a rider when they go solo in a cobbled race.


Did you even read my post?

"Correct mind set, Tony Martin is afraid of going over cobbles at suicide pace."

Just because you have the correct mind set for a time trial doesn't mean you have what it takes to ride over the cobbles at "suicide pace". Most of the riders that won Roubaix solo aren't time trial specialists. O'Grady, Vansummeren, Boonen, Museeuw, etc
Ryo Hazuki wrote:horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato


The Hitch wrote:Goss will woop boonens candy a[color="Black"]ss[/color] in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
User avatar El Pistolero
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07 Dec 2012 18:25

Wallace wrote: Being a great time trialist has always been one of the things needed for the cobbled races. Moser seems like a good example of this.


Yes, good example.

Hinault's example is even better for me. He apparently hated the race and yet managed to get it because of his tremendous power. Same for Merckx actually. Well as matter of fact, Hinault liked Paris-Roubaix. The hatred was a matter for journalist to dissert on.

Wallace wrote:And cyclo-cross skills also come in handy (see De Vlaeminck, Erik. His brother Roger was also pretty good).


Roger himself would rather debunk this. It means that Nys or Liboton can also be great Roubaisians and Merckx a good cyclocross rider. He would say. Actually Paris-Roubaix is for heavyweights and cyclocross for lightweights and he was the perfect balance between the two. Of course his technical skills were an advantage but not decisive.

The best crossers in history are rather climbers/Ardennes riders when they are roadies. See Robic, van der Poel sr, Zweifel, Breu or even Eric De Vlaeminck. Roger is an exception.

Ryo Hazuki wrote:
you are coming with examples of 50 years ago. the sport has evolved and is nothing like that anymore.


True. In those days, the cobbles were in much worse condition than today which means that technical skills were even more required. riders often had to cross sections on foot. Now the day before Paris-Roubaix they are cleaning it up with bulldozers or whatever and the friends of Paris-Roubaix did a great job in making the sections safe.

So today, technicality is even less required and power is more. Cancellara, Phinney and Boom are perfect examples. Or even EBH.

Ryo Hazuki wrote:pls explain to me a tiny guy like boogerd being one of the best in flanders, as he was the first time he ever did that race.


Very simply. Because Flanders is not Roubaix.
Echoes
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07 Dec 2012 18:43

Apart from Cancellara, non of the winners of the last 25 years was a great Time Trialist. (The last one that could classify as one, should have been Vanderaerden in 87)

You need power, not TT skills.
User avatar Buffalo Soldier
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07 Dec 2012 19:19

Aren't tt's the best indication of the power and/or endurance (and versatility) of a rider?

You're right. Vanderaerden was the last before Cancellara but the tt specialists of these last decades did not even show up at Paris-Roubaix out of lack of interest, I think.

But it's starting to change now, I think. Phinney is definitely a potential winner. Boom can also do great, for sure.
Echoes
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07 Dec 2012 20:43

Boonen - because he rides Paris-Roubaix without gloves.
User avatar GPdesAmeriques
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07 Dec 2012 21:03

El Pistolero wrote:Did you even read my post?

"Correct mind set, Tony Martin is afraid of going over cobbles at suicide pace."

Just because you have the correct mind set for a time trial doesn't mean you have what it takes to ride over the cobbles at "suicide pace". Most of the riders that won Roubaix solo aren't time trial specialists. O'Grady, Vansummeren, Boonen, Museeuw, etc


Did you read mine?

Afrank wrote:Time trialing is more than just lots of training on a TT bike, being aero, and knowing the route. You have to have the strength and mentality to keep yourself going at a hard pace (close to, at, or even above your max) over a given distance. And this is the part of time trialing that will help a rider when they go solo in a cobbled race.


Having the mentality to go hard of cobbles is just something I slipped in there, having the strength to do this is more what my post was about. Some riders can't do this, see Schleck. Not to say a rider that is not a TT specialist can't go solo on the cobbles as well, but the better a rider is at doing this in the TT the more it will help them if they try to go solo.

Buffalo Soldier wrote:Apart from Cancellara, non of the winners of the last 25 years was a great Time Trialist. (The last one that could classify as one, should have been Vanderaerden in 87)

You need power, not TT skills.


It's not TT "skills" that can help a rider in a cobbled race.
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07 Dec 2012 21:18

Echoes wrote:Aren't tt's the best indication of the power and/or endurance (and versatility) of a rider?


In my mind yes. Mental strength as well.
Now for positioning, explosiveness/sprinting and general race understanding it tells us very little naturally.

Bike racer:
Cancellara > Boonen

Cobbles racer:
Boonen > Cancellara
Dazed and Confused
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07 Dec 2012 21:55

Dazed and Confused wrote:In my mind yes. Mental strength as well.
Now for positioning, explosiveness/sprinting and general race understanding it tells us very little naturally.

Bike racer:
Cancellara > Boonen

Cobbles racer:
Boonen > Cancellara


He's great at ruining bike races. *cough* Tour de France *cough*
Ryo Hazuki wrote:horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato


The Hitch wrote:Goss will woop boonens candy a[color="Black"]ss[/color] in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
User avatar El Pistolero
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07 Dec 2012 22:01

El Pistolero wrote:He's great at ruining bike races. *cough* Tour de France *cough*


yeah, but the 200 other clowns should have shut down the one man show.
Dazed and Confused
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07 Dec 2012 23:41

GPdesAmeriques wrote:Boonen - because he rides Paris-Roubaix without gloves.

Doesn't he ride without gloves by default? That's the only thing I do just like him :D
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07 Dec 2012 23:50

I agree with Pistolero about Thomas. Really what has he done in a classic that is so spectacular? He may have the potential but it's not like he has shown it already. This also applies for Stannard by the way..... Sorry I just can't forget the "Hayman/Stannard/Thomas" should be protected riders on a cobblestone race in a team with Flecha and Hagen (to a smaller extent). There are some unbelievable ideas in this forum from time to time :D
User avatar trevim
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08 Dec 2012 07:31

IMO if both are at their peak Cancellara will win.

Boonen has been wonderful over the years and has the better record ,but as the 2010 Ronde showed if Cancellara is at his peak he's unstoppable.
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08 Dec 2012 08:24

trevim wrote:I agree with Pistolero about Thomas. Really what has he done in a classic that is so spectacular? He may have the potential.


This is confusing, because what pistrollero said was that thomas doesnt have any potential.
The Hitch: Winner 2013 Vuelta cq game. Winner, Velorooms prediction game 2012, 2013. 2nd all time cq rankings.
The Father of Clean Cycling, Christophe Bassons wrote:When I look at cycling today, I get the impression that history is repeating itself: riders who are supposed to be rouleurs are climbing passes at the front of the race, and those who are supposed to be climbers are riding time trials at more than 50 kilometres per hour.

The story is beginning again, just as it did 14 years ago


journalist with integrity.
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08 Dec 2012 09:27

trevim wrote:I agree with Pistolero about Thomas. Really what has he done in a classic that is so spectacular? He may have the potential but it's not like he has shown it already. This also applies for Stannard by the way..... Sorry I just can't forget the "Hayman/Stannard/Thomas" should be protected riders on a cobblestone race in a team with Flecha and Hagen (to a smaller extent). There are some unbelievable ideas in this forum from time to time :D


lol, Hayman must have 10 P-R finishes better than EBH's best.
Ferminal
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08 Dec 2012 09:32

If both are 100% then Cancellara will 'beat Boonen' in RVV and Boonen will 'beat Cancellara' in PR. They will not necessarily win.
"It is going to be very scary." - Tom Boonen*
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08 Dec 2012 10:06

The Hitch wrote:This is confusing, because what pistrollero said was that thomas doesnt have any potential.

Now I'm confused too. Let's wait for April and see :)
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08 Dec 2012 10:08

Ferminal wrote:lol, Hayman must have 10 P-R finishes better than EBH's best.

He also has never won a classic. EBH on the other hand has one at least. Still, I was refering to potential and if he sorts out his food problems, Hagen may be much better than Hayman also in Roubaix.
Hayman's best results in Roubaix are an 8th and a 10th place.
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08 Dec 2012 10:28

trevim wrote:He also has never won a classic. EBH on the other hand has one at least. Still, I was refering to potential and if he sorts out his food problems, Hagen may be much better than Hayman also in Roubaix.
Hayman's best results in Roubaix are an 8th and a 10th place.


Yeh but you say that people were calling for Hayman to be a protected rider ahead of Hagen as though it is incorrect. People were actually saying that Hayman should not have been doing all the work in P-R (a race he has proven to be a reliable campaigner in) whilst EBH (who is yet to show anything in P-R) did none.
Ferminal
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08 Dec 2012 11:04

trevim wrote:He also has never won a classic. EBH on the other hand has one at least. Still, I was refering to potential and if he sorts out his food problems, Hagen may be much better than Hayman also in Roubaix.
Hayman's best results in Roubaix are an 8th and a 10th place.

EBH shouldn't even do P-R imo, it doesn't suit him at all. He should do like Sagan and skip P-R to prepare for AGR instead. Unfortunately EBH has made P-R his main goal again though...
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