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Better Cobblestone rider: Boonen or Cancellara?

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Better Cobblestone rider: Boonen or Cancellara?

Poll ended at 23 Jan 2013 21:19

Boonen
76
52%
Cancellara
70
48%
 
Total votes : 146

08 Dec 2012 16:06

The Hitch wrote:This is confusing, because what pistrollero said was that thomas doesnt have any potential.


No I said he has never shown any potential for a race like Roubaix. ;)

He only rode it once and he wasn't good at it, so how the hell do you see that as potential?

When I say "come back next year" I obviously mean come back later when he finally does something in a classic to deserve all the hype he's getting at this forum.

Because I can name a lot of younger cyclists with more potential than him in the classics. He's almost 27 years old already. At age 27 Boonen already won 4 Monuments, Gent-Wevelgem, the E3 Prijs Vlaanderen four times, a WC, the green jersey in the Tour and 6 stages.
Ryo Hazuki wrote:horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato


The Hitch wrote:Goss will woop boonens candy a[color="Black"]ss[/color] in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
User avatar El Pistolero
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08 Dec 2012 16:08

Ferminal wrote:lol, Hayman must have 10 P-R finishes better than EBH's best.

Well, yes of course, EBH has started P-R two times, one in which he was 21 years old and had to give his bike to Hincapie...
maltiv
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08 Dec 2012 16:19

El Pistolero wrote:No I said he has never shown any potential for a race like Roubaix. ;)

He only rode it once and he wasn't good at it, so how the hell do you see that as potential?

When I say "come back next year" I obviously mean come back later when he finally does something in a classic to deserve all the hype he's getting at this forum.

Because I can name a lot of younger cyclists with more potential than him in the classics. He's almost 27 years old already. At age 27 Boonen already won 4 Monuments, Gent-Wevelgem, the E3 Prijs Vlaanderen four times, a WC, the green jersey in the Tour and 6 stages.


He punctured 3 times in the roubaix he did. And made it to the finish. Consider that in that very race your beloved boonen didnt even manage that ,before you say g has no roubaix potential.
The Hitch: Winner 2013 Vuelta cq game. Winner, Velorooms prediction game 2012, 2013. 2nd all time cq rankings.
The Father of Clean Cycling, Christophe Bassons wrote:When I look at cycling today, I get the impression that history is repeating itself: riders who are supposed to be rouleurs are climbing passes at the front of the race, and those who are supposed to be climbers are riding time trials at more than 50 kilometres per hour.

The story is beginning again, just as it did 14 years ago


journalist with integrity.
User avatar The Hitch
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08 Dec 2012 16:24

The Hitch wrote:He punctured 3 times in the roubaix he did. And made it to the finish. Consider that in that very race your beloved boonen didnt even manage that ,before you say g has no roubaix potential.


There's a reason why inexperienced people puncture so much in Roubaix. ;)

If you're good you can avoid all the bad parts on the road, as Boonen has said. In 2011 he was obviously not in his best shape and guess what? He had more bad luck in that year alone than all the years before combined. If you're in bad shape you'll pay less attention to the road hence your chances of getting a puncture increase. Roger de Vlaeminck has said something among those lines as well.

From 2002-2010 and again in 2012 Boonen almost never punctured, crashed or had a mechanical.

And he was third in his very first Roubaix unlike Geraint Thomas who punctured 3 times lol. Roubaix is probably one of the only races in the world where you can avoid most of the punctures by experience.

And do you really think Boonen cares about making it to the finish or not when he already lost the race? He's not going to keep on riding just to finish 35th.

By the way, are you implying that everyone that can finish Roubaix has the potential to win it? If so: :o.
Ryo Hazuki wrote:horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato


The Hitch wrote:Goss will woop boonens candy a[color="Black"]ss[/color] in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
User avatar El Pistolero
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08 Dec 2012 16:42

Dazed and Confused wrote:In my mind yes. Mental strength as well.
Now for positioning, explosiveness/sprinting and general race understanding it tells us very little naturally.


For an endurance race like Paris-Roubaix, positioning, explosiveness and sprinting are minor skills. Doesn't mean that it's useless but first you need stamina. Even technical skills on the cobbles are secondary. I repeat myself but De Vlaeminck, 4 time a winner and probably the best ever technically did say "Hinault and Raas won Paris-Roubaix because they are champions but not cobble specialists."

Dazed and Confused wrote:yeah, but the 200 other clowns should have shut down the one man show.


Bore de France again????
I thought this was a thread on cobble specialists, for Christ's sake. He ruined Bore de France? That has to be better that way. The hell with that sh*t race.

Panda Claws wrote:If both are 100% then Cancellara will 'beat Boonen' in RVV and Boonen will 'beat Cancellara' in PR. They will not necessarily win.


Just the opposite.

The Hitch wrote:He punctured 3 times in the roubaix he did.


"Punctures are not bad luck, it's a matter of clear_mindedness", said De Vlaeminck repeatedly. :p
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08 Dec 2012 17:05

El Pistolero wrote:There's a reason why inexperienced people puncture so much in Roubaix. ;)

If you're good you can avoid all the bad parts on the road, as Boonen has said. In 2011 he was obviously not in his best shape and guess what? He had more bad luck in that year alone than all the years before combined. If you're in bad shape you'll pay less attention to the road hence your chances of getting a puncture increase. Roger de Vlaeminck has said something among those lines as well.

From 2002-2010 and again in 2012 Boonen almost never punctured, crashed or had a mechanical.

And he was third in his very first Roubaix unlike Geraint Thomas who punctured 3 times lol. Roubaix is probably one of the only races in the world where you can avoid most of the punctures by experience.

And do you really think Boonen cares about making it to the finish or not when he already lost the race? He's not going to keep on riding just to finish 35th.

By the way, are you implying that everyone that can finish Roubaix has the potential to win it? If so: :o.


And now you try to change the discussion to whether he can win. No one is saying he is going to win roubaix.
The Hitch: Winner 2013 Vuelta cq game. Winner, Velorooms prediction game 2012, 2013. 2nd all time cq rankings.
The Father of Clean Cycling, Christophe Bassons wrote:When I look at cycling today, I get the impression that history is repeating itself: riders who are supposed to be rouleurs are climbing passes at the front of the race, and those who are supposed to be climbers are riding time trials at more than 50 kilometres per hour.

The story is beginning again, just as it did 14 years ago


journalist with integrity.
User avatar The Hitch
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08 Dec 2012 18:07

El Pistolero wrote:No I said he has never shown any potential for a race like Roubaix. ;)

He only rode it once and he wasn't good at it, so how the hell do you see that as potential?

When I say "come back next year" I obviously mean come back later when he finally does something in a classic to deserve all the hype he's getting at this forum.

Because I can name a lot of younger cyclists with more potential than him in the classics. He's almost 27 years old already. At age 27 Boonen already won 4 Monuments, Gent-Wevelgem, the E3 Prijs Vlaanderen four times, a WC, the green jersey in the Tour and 6 stages.


What? :confused: How does what Boonen had done at that age in any way mean Thomas can't be good in the cobbled races?
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08 Dec 2012 18:36

Afrank wrote:What? :confused: How does what Boonen had done at that age in any way mean Thomas can't be good in the cobbled races?


Just to put things in perspective as Geraint Thomas isn't all that young anymore. Besides, we were talking about Roubaix only. I think he has some potential for the Ronde van Vlaanderen, but he hasn't shown any potential yet for a race like Roubaix.

Besides the Ronde van Vlaanderen 2011 what exactly has Geraint Thomas done to deserve the hype he's getting in the classics? Like I said, he's not that young anymore. Peter Sagan, John Degenkolb and Taylor Phinney are all 4-5 years younger than him. And I think they will be the generation to finally overthrow Fabian Cancellara and Tom Boonen. They've been reigning for 7 years now. I wonder how long they can keep on dominating.

Greg van Avermaet has proven a lot more already in the classics yet people on this forum still insist on calling him "Greg Van Average" and what not. He's only one year older than Geraint Thomas and started cycling relatively late(Geraint had his track career of course, but at least that's cycling. Greg did football until he was 18 years old.). But I guess he gets extra hype just because he's an Anglophone.
Ryo Hazuki wrote:horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato


The Hitch wrote:Goss will woop boonens candy a[color="Black"]ss[/color] in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
User avatar El Pistolero
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08 Dec 2012 18:48

to put things into perspective, thomas has mostly ridden on track in his career :rolleyes:
User avatar Ryo Hazuki
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08 Dec 2012 18:50

Ryo Hazuki wrote:to put things into perspective, thomas has mostly ridden on track in his career :rolleyes:


I know that. Can you show potential for Roubaix during track races? I think not. ;)

He will never get those years back.
Ryo Hazuki wrote:horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato


The Hitch wrote:Goss will woop boonens candy a[color="Black"]ss[/color] in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
User avatar El Pistolero
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08 Dec 2012 19:13

El Pistolero wrote:I know that. Can you show potential for Roubaix during track races? I think not. ;)

He will never get those years back.


So.if i said to you 10 years ago that cadel evans, coming from.mtb still has potential. You would have argued till the cows came.home.that he is an.overated anglophone who woll never get those years back?
The Hitch: Winner 2013 Vuelta cq game. Winner, Velorooms prediction game 2012, 2013. 2nd all time cq rankings.
The Father of Clean Cycling, Christophe Bassons wrote:When I look at cycling today, I get the impression that history is repeating itself: riders who are supposed to be rouleurs are climbing passes at the front of the race, and those who are supposed to be climbers are riding time trials at more than 50 kilometres per hour.

The story is beginning again, just as it did 14 years ago


journalist with integrity.
User avatar The Hitch
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08 Dec 2012 19:16

The Hitch wrote:So.if i said to you 10 years ago that cadel evans, coming from.mtb still has potential. You would have argued till the cows came.home.that he is an.overated anglophone who woll never get those years back?


The rider who was close to win the Giro as a 25 year old?
Cancellara is like The Black Album. Really good but way overrated.
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08 Dec 2012 19:18

The Hitch wrote:So.if i said to you 10 years ago that cadel evans, coming from.mtb still has potential. You would have argued till the cows came.home.that he is an.overated anglophone who woll never get those years back?


2002 Giro in one of his first years as a pro.
Ryo Hazuki wrote:horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato


The Hitch wrote:Goss will woop boonens candy a[color="Black"]ss[/color] in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
User avatar El Pistolero
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08 Dec 2012 19:22

Netserk wrote:The rider who was close to win the Giro as a 25 year old?


Yeah .and thomas is 26. Evans improved so why is it seen as so obsurd that thomas can improve?
The Hitch: Winner 2013 Vuelta cq game. Winner, Velorooms prediction game 2012, 2013. 2nd all time cq rankings.
The Father of Clean Cycling, Christophe Bassons wrote:When I look at cycling today, I get the impression that history is repeating itself: riders who are supposed to be rouleurs are climbing passes at the front of the race, and those who are supposed to be climbers are riding time trials at more than 50 kilometres per hour.

The story is beginning again, just as it did 14 years ago


journalist with integrity.
User avatar The Hitch
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08 Dec 2012 19:25

The Hitch wrote:Yeah .and thomas is 26. Evans improved so why is it seen as so obsurd that thomas can improve?


And thomas was leading P-R with 15 km to go last year?
Cancellara is like The Black Album. Really good but way overrated.
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08 Dec 2012 20:33

Evans improved so why is it seen as so obsurd that thomas can improve?


Netserk wrote:And thomas was leading P-R with 15 km to go last year?



Dude are you for real? Riders who arent already contending for the top races cant improve? Only riders who are actually in with a shot for a monument or gt can experience "improvement" everyone else is doomed to remain at the same level for the rest of their careers?

This is honestly the dumbest thing i ever heard on the forum and that includes stuff pistrollero said?
The Hitch: Winner 2013 Vuelta cq game. Winner, Velorooms prediction game 2012, 2013. 2nd all time cq rankings.
The Father of Clean Cycling, Christophe Bassons wrote:When I look at cycling today, I get the impression that history is repeating itself: riders who are supposed to be rouleurs are climbing passes at the front of the race, and those who are supposed to be climbers are riding time trials at more than 50 kilometres per hour.

The story is beginning again, just as it did 14 years ago


journalist with integrity.
User avatar The Hitch
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08 Dec 2012 20:37

I guess we are going to see in april :rolleyes:
who the best collbestone rider is
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User avatar Vino attacks everyone
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08 Dec 2012 20:40

The Hitch wrote:Dude are you for real? Riders who arent already contending for the top races cant improve? Only riders who are actually in with a shot for a monument or gt can experience "improvement" everyone else is doomed to remain at the same level for the rest of their careers?

This is honestly the dumbest thing i ever heard on the forum and that includes stuff pistrollero said?


I didn't say that, and it isn't my opinion. It is *you* who used Evans as example, and I just showed why he isn't comparable with Thomas. Ten years ago was December 2002 *after* Evans' Giro performance....
Cancellara is like The Black Album. Really good but way overrated.
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08 Dec 2012 20:50

Vino attacks everyone wrote:I guess we are going to see in april :rolleyes:
who the best collbestone rider is


Yup. That's why this thread is so useless. Even if you determine who the best cobble rider is, you're still gonna watch next spring who can win the big classics. There aren't many certainties in cycling, a lot can happen in the coming four months.
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08 Dec 2012 21:30

The Hitch wrote:Dude are you for real? Riders who arent already contending for the top races cant improve? Only riders who are actually in with a shot for a monument or gt can experience "improvement" everyone else is doomed to remain at the same level for the rest of their careers?

This is honestly the dumbest thing i ever heard on the forum and that includes stuff pistrollero said?


I ask you again for the final time. Where has Thomas shown any potential at Roubaix that I need to include him on my list?

If he shows potential next year good for him, but for now he hasn't.

Yeah he can improve, but so can just about every cyclist lol.

Froome had shown no potential before the Vuelta in 2011 yet he came second. EBH showed great potential in 2009 yet has stagnated until recently.

I ask you again, exactly what potential has Geraint Thomas shown so far in Roubaix that I need to include him in my Cancellara list? Must I include every single person that can improve?

Getting third, fourth or even 15th in your very first Paris-Roubaix, that is potential. Finishing 64th in your first Roubaix and abandoning in your second Roubaix really isn't.

For all I know Moreno Moser will win Roubaix one day, but he sure as hell hasn't shown the potential to win it yet.
Ryo Hazuki wrote:horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato


The Hitch wrote:Goss will woop boonens candy a[color="Black"]ss[/color] in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
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