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Better Cobblestone rider: Boonen or Cancellara?

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Better Cobblestone rider: Boonen or Cancellara?

Poll ended at 23 Jan 2013 21:19

Boonen
76
52%
Cancellara
70
48%
 
Total votes : 146

05 Dec 2012 14:51

The Hitch wrote:Who is right now the better climber.

Pistrollero logic

2000 Garzelli
2001 Garzelli
2002 Garzelli
2003 Garzelli
2004 Garzelli
2005 Garzelli
2006 Garzelli
2007 Garzelli
2008 Garzelli ( easily the strongest)
2009 Garzelli
2010 Garzelli
2011 Froome
2012.Froome


Nowhere does it say that. ;)

And it's not my problem Froome was a nobody that became super man out of nowhere. He's the odd one out, so isn't even a good example for lot's of reasons. Boonen won his first Monument in 2005 and Cancellara won his first in 2006. They're the same age and started performing at top level during the same time in the same races. So flip off with your Garzelli-Froome comparison as it makes no sense at all.

Cancellara is probably the most overrated cyclist in existence. He wins a non-WT edition of Tirreno-Adriatico and a tailor made Tour de Suisse and some people are already claiming he can win Lombardia and the Tour de France. :rolleyes:

Year after year Boonen has been better than Cancellara. Only in 2010 was Cancellara truly better. What's next, Wiggins is the best GC rider now? That's the most stupid logic I ever heard.

I see I didn't make my point clear enough:

2002-2009: Boonen > Cancellara
2010-2011: Cancellara > Boonen
2012: Boonen > Cancellara

And don't give me the crap that he crashed out in the Ronde van Vlaanderen. As if Boonen never had stuff like that happening to him. I remember him crashing during the Ronde in 2007 and abandoning the race because of bad luck in Roubaix 2011.

It's sad Boonen has been hospitalized for a couple of days recently because of a serious bowel infection and has already lost 4kg because of dehydration, but no doubt you'll ignore that next season and say he had the perfect preparation for the classics. ;)
Ryo Hazuki wrote:horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato


The Hitch wrote:Goss will woop boonens candy a[color="Black"]ss[/color] in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
User avatar El Pistolero
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05 Dec 2012 15:13

Someone makes the case for *insert random rider* to be better than Boonen or Gilbert... El Calimero to the rescue.
theyoungest
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05 Dec 2012 15:19

El Pistolero wrote:
And don't give me the crap that he crashed out in the Ronde van Vlaanderen.



Yeah your right what a **** excuse. Real men like Gilbert or Boonen would have gotten up and raced on.

Cancellara is probably the most overrated cyclist in existence. He wins a non-WT edition of Tirreno-Adriatico and a tailor made Tour de Suisse and some people are already claiming he can win Lombardia and the Tour de Franc


Umm i think his 3rd at the olympics and his Mendrisio performance may have a little something to do with it;)
The Hitch: Winner 2013 Vuelta cq game. Winner, Velorooms prediction game 2012, 2013. 2nd all time cq rankings.
The Father of Clean Cycling, Christophe Bassons wrote:When I look at cycling today, I get the impression that history is repeating itself: riders who are supposed to be rouleurs are climbing passes at the front of the race, and those who are supposed to be climbers are riding time trials at more than 50 kilometres per hour.

The story is beginning again, just as it did 14 years ago


journalist with integrity.
User avatar The Hitch
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05 Dec 2012 15:19

theyoungest wrote:Someone makes the case for *insert random rider* to be better than Boonen or Gilbert... El Calimero to the rescue.


Or perhaps you're the calimero because your favorite cyclists are mediocre at best? ;) Scrap that question, I know you have some unresolved issues considering your posting style.

Anyway, if you have no real arguments then don't bother posting. This is a discussion forum if you didn't know, so why exactly are you complaining about an on-topic discussion? Sometimes I wonder if you ever finished high-school. Or perhaps you're still a toddler like your name suggest.
Ryo Hazuki wrote:horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato


The Hitch wrote:Goss will woop boonens candy a[color="Black"]ss[/color] in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
User avatar El Pistolero
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05 Dec 2012 15:22

theyoungest wrote:Someone makes the case for *insert random rider* to be better than Boonen or Gilbert... El Calimero to the rescue.


I love how all these topics turn into bashing el calimero
User avatar Ryo Hazuki
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05 Dec 2012 15:25

The Hitch wrote:Yeah your right what a **** excuse. Real men like Gilbert or Boonen would have gotten up and raced on.



You have no problem ignoring the bad luck of Boonen when we're talking of 2011. So why shouldn't you ignore Cancellara's bad luck this year? So yeah, crap excuse unless you look at both sides.

Still waiting for any real argument however. In the mean time, feel free to resort to personal insults. Shows how small you are. :D

What has Gilbert to do with this by the way? Please stay on-topic.
Ryo Hazuki wrote:horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato


The Hitch wrote:Goss will woop boonens candy a[color="Black"]ss[/color] in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
User avatar El Pistolero
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05 Dec 2012 15:30

Cancellara is better on the cobbles. I don't think anyone doubts who would win in a ITT between the two to Roubaix. However, Boonen is probably better in the cobbled classics in general, but that's because of his sprint, not due to his abilities on the cobbles per se.
maltiv
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05 Dec 2012 15:33

Well, it's not a itt.
There's team, tactics...
Who would have won in a cobbled ttt between RS-NT and OP-QS?
User avatar serfla
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05 Dec 2012 15:34

maltiv wrote:Cancellara is better on the cobbles. I don't think anyone doubts who would win in a ITT between the two to Roubaix. However, Boonen is probably better in the cobbled classics in general, but that's because of his sprint, not due to his abilities on the cobbles per se.


Cancellara was there for 6 of the 7 Monuments Boonen won. Boonen only beat Cancellara in the sprint in one of those. 5 other times Cancellara got dropped or crashed(once).

Ronde van Vlaanderen 2005: Cancellara finishes more than 10 minutes down.
Ronde van Vlaanderen 2006: Cancellara finishes more than a minute down.
Paris-Roubaix 2005: Cancellara finishes almost 4 minutes down.
Paris Roubaix 2009: Cancellara finishes almost 7 minutes down.

And for the semi-classic cobbled race:

E3 Harelbeke 2006: Boonen won in a sprint with two. Cancellara got dropped.
E3 Harelbeke 2007: Boonen won in a sprint with four. Cancellara was there, but got outsprinted.
E3 Harelbeke 2008: breakaway survives, but Boonen is once again the strongest of the favorites. Cancellara got dropped
Dwars door Vlaanderen 2007: Boonen wins the sprint. Cancellara got dropped even from there.
Ryo Hazuki wrote:horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato


The Hitch wrote:Goss will woop boonens candy a[color="Black"]ss[/color] in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
User avatar El Pistolero
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05 Dec 2012 15:36

Magnus wrote:Hitch logic

11 years 10 months=5 monthes


I dont get it.

JimmyFingers wrote:I voted Boonen, mainly because his break at 50k in Paris-Roubaix last year was one of the most astonishing rides I have ever seen


Look up 2010 roubaix. Cancellara did the same.trick only against far better opposotion and more.convincingly.
The Hitch: Winner 2013 Vuelta cq game. Winner, Velorooms prediction game 2012, 2013. 2nd all time cq rankings.
The Father of Clean Cycling, Christophe Bassons wrote:When I look at cycling today, I get the impression that history is repeating itself: riders who are supposed to be rouleurs are climbing passes at the front of the race, and those who are supposed to be climbers are riding time trials at more than 50 kilometres per hour.

The story is beginning again, just as it did 14 years ago


journalist with integrity.
User avatar The Hitch
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Posts: 25,786
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Location: London.

05 Dec 2012 15:40

El Pistolero wrote:Cancellara was there for 6 of the 7 Monuments Boonen won. Boonen only beat Cancellara in the sprint in one of those. 5 other times Cancellara got dropped.



Those.5 times being 2005 2005 2006 2008 and 2009.

Yep you have titaly convinced me that today boonen is the bettee cobbled.rider.
The Hitch: Winner 2013 Vuelta cq game. Winner, Velorooms prediction game 2012, 2013. 2nd all time cq rankings.
The Father of Clean Cycling, Christophe Bassons wrote:When I look at cycling today, I get the impression that history is repeating itself: riders who are supposed to be rouleurs are climbing passes at the front of the race, and those who are supposed to be climbers are riding time trials at more than 50 kilometres per hour.

The story is beginning again, just as it did 14 years ago


journalist with integrity.
User avatar The Hitch
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Posts: 25,786
Joined: 14 Jun 2010 10:58
Location: London.

05 Dec 2012 15:50

The Hitch wrote:I dont get it.



Look up 2010 roubaix. Cancellara did the same.trick only against far better opposotion and more.convincingly.


Look up 2010 Roubaix. No one chased after Cancellara except Boonen. What opposition are you talking about except him? Has anyone denied here in this thread that Cancellara was stronger in 2010?
Ryo Hazuki wrote:horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato


The Hitch wrote:Goss will woop boonens candy a[color="Black"]ss[/color] in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
User avatar El Pistolero
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05 Dec 2012 15:52

The Hitch wrote:Those.5 times being 2005 2005 2006 2008 and 2009.

Yep you have titaly convinced me that today boonen is the bettee cobbled.rider.


You have no problem using 2010 as evidence however. Again, why the double standards?

If you want to play the injury card in 2012 for Cancellara then you have to do the same for Boonen in 2011.
Ryo Hazuki wrote:horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato


The Hitch wrote:Goss will woop boonens candy a[color="Black"]ss[/color] in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
User avatar El Pistolero
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Posts: 14,298
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05 Dec 2012 15:56

Who's going to be better in 2013? Sagan.
User avatar Wallace
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05 Dec 2012 15:59

Wallace wrote:Who's going to be better in 2013? Sagan.


We don't know whether or not he'll ride in Roubaix. Nor if he's any good in that classic by the way. If he rides Roubaix I can't see him ride good at the Ardennes classics. He has to make a choice. Though this topic isn't about who's the best cobbled rider, but about who's better between Cancellara and Boonen.
Ryo Hazuki wrote:horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato


The Hitch wrote:Goss will woop boonens candy a[color="Black"]ss[/color] in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
User avatar El Pistolero
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05 Dec 2012 16:09

Boonen, of course.
He's the best of all times on the cobbles.
No one has ever won that much RVVs and P-Rs.
User avatar serfla
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05 Dec 2012 16:11

maltiv wrote:Cancellara is better on the cobbles. I don't think anyone doubts who would win in a ITT between the two to Roubaix. However, Boonen is probably better in the cobbled classics in general, but that's because of his sprint, not due to his abilities on the cobbles per se.

This I agree with. Compare Boonen's win in Flanders this year to Cancellara's in 2010. Just so much more convincing. Boonen was struggling to hold the wheel of Pozzato and Ballan uphill.
theyoungest
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05 Dec 2012 16:13

El Pistolero wrote:We don't know whether or not he'll ride in Roubaix. Nor if he's any good in that classic by the way. If he rides Roubaix I can't see him ride good at the Ardennes classics. He has to make a choice. Though this topic isn't about who's the best cobbled rider, but about who's better between Cancellara and Boonen.


I know, but I think it's a kind of silly discussion because Boonen has won so many more of the cobbled races than Cancellara, and that's really all that counts. Fabian is certainly stronger, but he doesn't have the team so his strength is neutralized. In 2010 Boonen thought he could go head-to-head with FC and match him pull for pull, and realized he couldn't. He won't make that mistake again. As everyone saw at last year's Flanders, Boonen knows that all he has to do is arrive at the end of the race at the front and it doesn't matter if the guys he's with are stronger--he can out-sprint them. With Chavanel, Terpstra etc. on his team, he doesn't have to be the strongest (unlike Cancellara)--he just has to be smart. Team work also won him last year's P-R, where the 2nd strongest guy in the race, Terpstra, was in the chasing group blocking for him and disrupting the rhythm (one of the commentators said it was practically cheating to have a guy doing that kind of work). In other words, if this year Tom and Fabian find themselves alone in front at the end of either race, Tom won't work as much as Fabian and will out-sprint him. And winning is kind of what matters.

What could change all this is if Sagan enters the mix--he's the guy who could be up there with Boonen and Cancellara, and out-sprint Boonen. If Cancellara, Boonen and Sagan enter the Roubaix velodrome together, Sagan's gonna win.
User avatar Wallace
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05 Dec 2012 16:14

El Pistolero wrote:Cancellara was there for 6 of the 7 Monuments Boonen won. Boonen only beat Cancellara in the sprint in one of those. 5 other times Cancellara got dropped or crashed(once).

All completely irrelevant, I'm talking about their abilities right now. Cancellara clearly improved on the cobbles after 2009.
maltiv
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05 Dec 2012 16:18

El Pistolero wrote:You have no problem using 2010 as evidence however. Again, why the double standards?
.


I did not use 2010 as evidence. I pointed out to a relatively new cycling fan who may not have seen 2010 that Cancellara was also able to do the 50k solo thing and better. (and to answer the question Hushovd, Pozzato, Boonen Flecha were the opposition. IMO that is a superior oppositon to Turgot and Ballan).

So no there are no double standards. 2010 is also the past. It is a more recent past though than 2005 justlike 2009 Boonen is a more recent past than Cancellara 2006.
The Hitch: Winner 2013 Vuelta cq game. Winner, Velorooms prediction game 2012, 2013. 2nd all time cq rankings.
The Father of Clean Cycling, Christophe Bassons wrote:When I look at cycling today, I get the impression that history is repeating itself: riders who are supposed to be rouleurs are climbing passes at the front of the race, and those who are supposed to be climbers are riding time trials at more than 50 kilometres per hour.

The story is beginning again, just as it did 14 years ago


journalist with integrity.
User avatar The Hitch
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Posts: 25,786
Joined: 14 Jun 2010 10:58
Location: London.

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