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2013 Speculation (and confirmation) thread - rider schedules and parcours

A place to discuss all things related to current professional road races. Here, you can also touch on the latest news relating to professional road racing. A doping discussion free forum.

22 Dec 2012 10:37

theyoungest wrote:Lol. Two things are very funny about this post.

1. Löfkvist didn't win Emilia, he got 3d behind Robert Gesink
2. By this same logic, Gesink is a great hilly classics rider

I never thought you'd say that ;)


It's sort of true, though. Gesink is (was) great in hilly semi classics. Liege, no... but shorter races, sure.
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22 Dec 2012 10:40

theyoungest wrote:Lol. Two things are very funny about this post.

1. Löfkvist didn't win Emilia, he got 3d behind Robert Gesink
2. By this same logic, Gesink is a great hilly classics rider

I never thought you'd say that ;)


3rd then. I remember him doing very well. he lost sprint to gesink I think? I didn't say lovkist is a great hilly rider but he isn't mediocre either and gesink 3 years ago was a pretty great hilly rider. now he's a joke yes
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22 Dec 2012 10:55

Ryo Hazuki wrote:3rd then. I remember him doing very well. he lost sprint to gesink I think? I didn't say lovkist is a great hilly rider but he isn't mediocre either and gesink 3 years ago was a pretty great hilly rider. now he's a joke yes


Exactly, he's a joke. But Mirador del Ezaro and Seraing were among his best performaces this year, how do you explain that? And he's always been quite bad in LBL, only a fool has ever seen him as a hilly rider. He's the least explosive pro ever, I can tell you that.
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22 Dec 2012 10:57

Emilia isn't really a hilly classic. The best hills rider in the world, Gilbert, probably can't win it. It's more of a mountain stage.

Maybe it's better to use Tirreno as an example of a hilly race where Löfkvist did very well. Löfkvist is reasonable in the hills, and it's certainly not only due to his MTB skills that he did so well in Strade Bianche.

Pentacycle wrote:Exactly, he's a joke. But Mirador del Ezaro and Seraing were among his best performaces this year, how do you explain that? And he's always been quite bad in LBL, only a fool has ever seen him as a hilly rider. He's the least explosive pro ever, I can tell you that.

"Least explosive ever" would also make Quebec very unsuited to him. Yet he's finished on the podium there twice. He can do it, sometimes. And never in the biggest races.
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22 Dec 2012 11:11

theyoungest wrote:"Least explosive ever" would also make Quebec very unsuited to him. Yet he's finished on the podium there twice. He can do it, sometimes. And never in the biggest races.


I know that he's finished well in those races, but he's never immediately reacted well to any attack or accelleration, he's only got one tempo. That doesn't mean he can't get results. But the reason he doesn't ride the classics any more is that even in his best form he can't win one. He's a rider with solid climbing and good TT, he needs to ride one week races ftw before he even attempts a grand tour classification. GT's and classics haven't been very kind to him after all.
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22 Dec 2012 11:28

Pentacycle wrote:I know that he's finished well in those races, but he's never immediately reacted well to any attack or accelleration, he's only got one tempo. That doesn't mean he can't get results. But the reason he doesn't ride the classics any more is that even in his best form he can't win one. He's a rider with solid climbing and good TT, he needs to ride one week races ftw before he even attempts a grand tour classification. GT's and classics haven't been very kind to him after all.

Depends on his form. He does have a snappy accelleration sometimes, and sometimes he absolutely doesn't. It's a bit unpredictable. But this discussion is as old as the guy's career.
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22 Dec 2012 12:00

Pentacycle wrote:Gilbert could have won RvV in 2011, if the finish would've been a few kms after the Bosberg. The Ronde doesn't necessarily reward the strongest rider,
the AGR does that more often with the Cauberg-finish. Gilbert is often the strongest (cobbled) hilly rider, without getting the win.

And AGR having a better field is a simple fact, most of the riders who did the Ronde are there, plus a lot of climbers who never ride the cobbles.


Uhm, only a fact to the Dutch it seems.

Ballan, Boonen, Cancellara, Pozzato and Devolder have almost never ridden the AGR in their prime years. Cancellara/Chavanel were the strongest in the Ronde in 2011. Gilbert has never been the strongest in the Ronde van Vlaanderen in his life. What a post of nonsense.

Guess what, the finish isn't right after the Bosberg or the Paterberg and that's why the Ronde van Vlaanderen is actually decent to watch unlike the AGR. ;)

Cyclists like Joquim Rodriguez or Nibali would never stand a chance in the Ronde van Vlaanderen. I've never even heard of a cyclist trying to peak for the AGR. Once the cobbled guys have done the Ronde van Vlaanderen and Roubaix their peak is over.

Here's the top ten of the WC in Valkenburg:

1. Philippe Gilbert Belgium 6h 10' 41"
2. Edvald Boasson Hagen Norway + 4"
3. Alejandro Valverde Spain + 5"
4. John Degenkolb Germany + 5"
5. Lars Boom Netherlands + 5"
6. Allan Davis Australia + 5"
7. Thomas Voeckler France + 5"
8. Ramūnas Navardauskas Lithuania + 5"
9. Sergio Henao Colombia + 5"
10. Óscar Freire Spain + 5"

Bolded have ridden the Ronde van Vlaanderen this year. Allan Davis and Navardauskas didn't ride the Ronde or AGR. And I don't think anyone missed Henao at the Ronde van Vlaanderen. :o
Ryo Hazuki wrote:horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato


The Hitch wrote:Goss will woop boonens candy a[color="Black"]ss[/color] in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
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22 Dec 2012 12:08

El Pistolero wrote:Uhm, only a fact to the Dutch it seems.

Ballan, Boonen, Cancellara, Pozzato and Devolder have almost never ridden the AGR in their prime years. Cancellara was the strongest in the Ronde in 2011. Gilbert has never been the strongest in the Ronde van Vlaanderen in his life. What a post of nonsense.

Guess what, the finish isn't right after the Bosberg or the Paterberg and that's why the Ronde van Vlaanderen is actually decent to watch. ;)

Cyclists like Joquim Rodriguez or Nibali would never stand a chance in the Ronde van Vlaanderen.

Nibali doesn't stand a chance in AGR too :o
A race that doesn't give an attacker the chance to finish it off alone is not a race anymore.


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22 Dec 2012 12:23

Eshnar wrote:Nibali doesn't stand a chance in AGR too :o


He did very well at the WC.

As a Belgian gregario.


:o
Ryo Hazuki wrote:horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato


The Hitch wrote:Goss will woop boonens candy a[color="Black"]ss[/color] in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
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22 Dec 2012 12:26

El Pistolero wrote:Uhm, only a fact to the Dutch it seems.

Ballan, Boonen, Cancellara, Pozzato and Devolder have almost never ridden the AGR in their prime years. Cancellara was the strongest in the Ronde in 2011. Gilbert has never been the strongest in the Ronde van Vlaanderen in his life. What a post of nonsense.

Guess what, the finish isn't right after the Bosberg or the Paterberg and that's why the Ronde van Vlaanderen is actually decent to watch unlike the AGR. ;)

Cyclists like Joquim Rodriguez or Nibali would never stand a chance in the Ronde van Vlaanderen. I've never even heard of a cyclist trying to peak for the AGR. Once the cobbled guys have done the Ronde van Vlaanderen and Roubaix their peak is over.

Here's the top ten of the WC in Valkenburg:

1. Philippe Gilbert Belgium 6h 10' 41"
2. Edvald Boasson Hagen Norway + 4"
3. Alejandro Valverde Spain + 5"
4. John Degenkolb Germany + 5"
5. Lars Boom Netherlands + 5"
6. Allan Davis Australia + 5"
7. Thomas Voeckler France + 5"
8. Ramūnas Navardauskas Lithuania + 5"
9. Sergio Henao Colombia + 5"
10. Óscar Freire Spain + 5"

Bolded have ridden the Ronde van Vlaanderen this year. Allan Davis and Navardauskas didn't ride the Ronde or AGR. And I don't think anyone missed Henao at the Ronde van Vlaanderen. :o

It's always some kind of national pride thing with you, oh don't touch the Ronde, the Amstel Gold Race sucks! Yes it does, problem is, we don't care ;)

It's not a national event like the Ronde is in Belgium. It just has a stronger field. I don't see how there's any discussion about that? Naming a few cobbles specialists hardly changes that. I mean, for god's sake, Devolder!?
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22 Dec 2012 12:32

theyoungest wrote:It's always some kind of national pride thing with you, oh don't touch the Ronde, the Amstel Gold Race sucks! Yes it does, problem is, we don't care ;)

It's not a national event like the Ronde is in Belgium. It just has a stronger field. I don't see how there's any discussion about that? Naming a few cobbles specialists hardly changes that. I mean, for god's sake, Devolder!?


Beats Ivanov and Gasparotto. ;)

I don't see that strong field at the AGR sorry. Most of the field isn't concerned with winning that race. And like you said, the race isn't similar to the Ronde van Vlaanderen like Ryo and Pentacycle have been claiming. ;) They're 2 different races with some similarities, but many differences.

Not even in Belgium do we have that much road obstacles on the road nor are there cars parked alongside the road. That's what AGR is most famous for after all...

Come back to me when the AGR changes name and the finish isn't on the Cauberg anymore. Then it will become a really big race. ;)

If the Cauberg was 12km from the finish Boonen could probably win the AGR if he peaked for it. As of right now, only a small handful of people can win the AGR.

I don't think the AGR sucks as for as classics go, but when someone compares it to a Monument... Yeah, then it sucks.
Ryo Hazuki wrote:horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato


The Hitch wrote:Goss will woop boonens candy a[color="Black"]ss[/color] in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
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22 Dec 2012 13:07

theyoungest wrote:Emilia isn't really a hilly classic. The best hills rider in the world, Gilbert, probably can't win it. It's more of a mountain stage.

Maybe it's better to use Tirreno as an example of a hilly race where Löfkvist did very well. Löfkvist is reasonable in the hills, and it's certainly not only due to his MTB skills that he did so well in Strade Bianche.

Sure, he is reasonable in hills, but I'm still quite sure he wouldn't have done so well in Strade Bianche without the gravel parts, which was my point. Also in Giro 2011, when he sucked, he was still one of the strongest on the Strade Bianche stage...
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22 Dec 2012 13:11

El Pistolero wrote:Beats Ivanov and Gasparotto. ;)



yea... no. Very different types of riders.
"I know how to ride my bike" - Nibali

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9LBsWCNE9I

Vuelta 06 - the greatest gt in history!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24TQdI7csHs
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22 Dec 2012 13:34

Vino attacks everyone wrote:yea... no. Very different types of riders.


Different as in better?

I know Devolder has been a joke for the last 2 years, but he still won:

- Won 5 stage races
- Won multiple time trials
- Wore leaders jersey in Vuelta plus 11th in GC
- Won 2 Monuments with the Ronde van Vlaanderen
- 2 National RR titles in direct battles with Boonen and Gilbert
- Top 10 in Paris-Roubaix

So, all in all, he's basically better than Ivanov and Gasparotto in just about everything. For now. ;)
Ryo Hazuki wrote:horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato


The Hitch wrote:Goss will woop boonens candy a[color="Black"]ss[/color] in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
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22 Dec 2012 13:37

theyoungest wrote:Depends on his form. He does have a snappy accelleration sometimes, and sometimes he absolutely doesn't. It's a bit unpredictable. But this discussion is as old as the guy's career.


no he does not. he only had one as an u23 and junior. never since.
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22 Dec 2012 13:40

El Pistolero wrote:Different as in better?

I know Devolder has been a joke for the last 2 years, but he still won:

- Won 5 stage races
- Won multiple time trials
- Wore leaders jersey in Vuelta plus 11th in GC
- Won 2 Monuments with the Ronde van Vlaanderen
- 2 National RR titles in direct battles with Boonen and Gilbert
- Top 10 in Paris-Roubaix

So, all in all, he's basically better than Ivanov and Gasparotto in just about everything. For now. ;)


AGR is a race where the final push is 95% of the race (with some exceptions)

There is very few people that is better than Gaspa on that type of terrain (Sagan, Gilbert, EBH, Valverde perhpas). RVV you need alot of luck and the tactics must be perfect. AGR you almost certainly need to be the best that day, this do not apply to RVV
"I know how to ride my bike" - Nibali

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9LBsWCNE9I

Vuelta 06 - the greatest gt in history!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24TQdI7csHs
Vino attacks everyone
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22 Dec 2012 13:43

Vino attacks everyone wrote:AGR is a race where the final push is 95% of the race (with some exceptions)

There is very few people that is better than Gaspa on that type of terrain (Sagan, Gilbert, EBH, Valverde perhpas). RVV you need alot of luck and the tactics must be perfect. AGR you almost certainly need to be the best that day, this do not apply to RVV


this puts it very well. as we also saw this year boonen winning the rvv, while not being the strongest.
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22 Dec 2012 13:43

Ryo Hazuki wrote:this puts it very well


thank you, this comment made my day :D
"I know how to ride my bike" - Nibali

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9LBsWCNE9I

Vuelta 06 - the greatest gt in history!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24TQdI7csHs
Vino attacks everyone
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22 Dec 2012 13:45

Vino attacks everyone wrote:thank you, this comment made my day :D


no proh\blem ;) also the comment about boonen I put there will make el calimero's day. can't wait for his reaction :D
User avatar Ryo Hazuki
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22 Dec 2012 13:48

Vino attacks everyone wrote:AGR is a race where the final push is 95% of the race (with some exceptions)

There is very few people that is better than Gaspa on that type of terrain (Sagan, Gilbert, EBH, Valverde perhpas). RVV you need alot of luck and the tactics must be perfect. AGR you almost certainly need to be the best that day, this do not apply to RVV


Yeah, so you also say AGR and the Ronde are different races? ;)

Funny how Ryo agrees with you considering he said Ronde and AGR are basically the same only AGR has a better field. LOL.

Ok, Gaspa IS better in an uphill sprint. But Devolder beats him in most other things, at least the Devolder of 2008-2010. The current Devolder is a joke. :o
Ryo Hazuki wrote:horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato


The Hitch wrote:Goss will woop boonens candy a[color="Black"]ss[/color] in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
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