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2013 Speculation (and confirmation) thread - rider schedules and parcours

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06 Dec 2012 01:26

the fact that a 22 year old was able be right up there on the final climb with guys like Sanchez, Uran, Henao, Hesjedal, Contador, Kessiakoff, Pellizotti and others



cineteq wrote:Does 'others' include the winner? I guess you were just paying attention to Quintana. :D


rewatch the race and then ask yourself if on "on the final climb", the 22 year old was "right up there" with "the winner", or was he maybe actually slightly behind "the winner" who was a few hundred metres ahead.

Maybe then your attempted cheap shots wont end up bombing so hard.
The Hitch: Winner 2013 Vuelta cq game. Winner, Velorooms prediction game 2012, 2013. 2nd all time cq rankings.
The Father of Clean Cycling, Christophe Bassons wrote:When I look at cycling today, I get the impression that history is repeating itself: riders who are supposed to be rouleurs are climbing passes at the front of the race, and those who are supposed to be climbers are riding time trials at more than 50 kilometres per hour.

The story is beginning again, just as it did 14 years ago


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06 Dec 2012 01:49

Afrank wrote:I didn't include Rodriguez because he beat Quintana (and everyone else) on the climb, and no one was hanging with him when he attacked on the final climb. I was talking more about the guys that Quintana either beat or matched on the climbs.
Gotcha, thanks for clarifying.

The Hitch wrote:Maybe then your attempted cheap shots wont end up bombing so hard.
Does the Hitch always have to answer condescendingly with anger? Is this guy okay? :eek:
Do you want to watch better bike racing? => Team radios (not race radio) must go!
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06 Dec 2012 04:15

Afrank wrote:Because the other guys sprinted faster in the end. Climbing is a very important part of a race like Lombardia; and the fact that a 22 year old was able be right up there on the final climb with guys like Sanchez, Uran, Henao, Hesjedal, Contador, Kessiakoff, Pellizotti and others shows he has enormous potential to be a future contender in the classics.


Yet the race is often decided on a descent. For better or worse(crashes). ;)

So because a person is a better climber he's automatically better than someone who's slightly worse at climbing, but much better in descending?

That's a strange look on racing.

Also being up there with all the rest doesn't mean you were the second strongest man in the race.
Ryo Hazuki wrote:horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato


The Hitch wrote:Goss will woop boonens candy a[color="Black"]ss[/color] in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
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06 Dec 2012 04:59

El Pistolero wrote:Yet the race is often decided on a descent. For better or worse(crashes). ;)


Yet in this years race it was decided on the climb. ;)

So because a person is a better climber he's automatically better than someone who's slightly worse at climbing, but much better in descending?

That's a strange look on racing.


Your putting words in my mouth, I never said this at all. All I did is point out that climbing especially mattered in this years race, the winner won by attacking on the climb, and that Quintana was very good on the climbs. Thus he was very strong in the race.

Also being up there with all the rest doesn't mean you were the second strongest man in the race.


Duh, but beating and matching some of the best climbers in cycling in terrible conditions in one of the biggest classics in cycling shows enormous potential and talent. This is what I've been saying from the start, do you deny it?
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06 Dec 2012 09:13

Afrank wrote:Duh, but beating and matching some of the best climbers in cycling in terrible conditions in one of the biggest classics in cycling shows enormous potential and talent. This is what I've been saying from the start, do you deny it?

I think the question is whether it shows real potential for the classics. This wasn't your regular classic of course, pretty much tailor made for a Colombian, certainly with the Muro di Sormano in it, and another wall at the end. El Calimero wants us to believe that Gilbert could have won it if he didn't crash, I'm inclined to think he couldn't have, precisely because this course is too hard for a "real" classics rider.
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06 Dec 2012 09:26

El Pistolero wrote:Lol, he wasn't the best rider after Purito. Since when does only climbing matter in a race?


Image
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06 Dec 2012 09:29

El Pistolero wrote:Yet the race is often decided on a descent. For better or worse(crashes). ;)

So because a person is a better climber he's automatically better than someone who's slightly worse at climbing, but much better in descending?

That's a strange look on racing.

Also being up there with all the rest doesn't mean you were the second strongest man in the race.


the rest were 4 riders behind purito, and he came in 2nd on that climb. also the big climb before he was first or one of the first. he was if not 2nd best than at leats 3rd or 4th best rider. way better than his 11th position if you just looked at results
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06 Dec 2012 09:31

theyoungest wrote:I think the question is whether it shows real potential for the classics. This wasn't your regular classic of course, pretty much tailor made for a Colombian, certainly with the Muro di Sormano in it, and another wall at the end. El Calimero wants us to believe that Gilbert could have won it if he didn't crash, I'm inclined to think he couldn't have, precisely because this course is too hard for a "real" classics rider.


El murro yes. but the final climb is nothing more than a lbl style climb. there it was where only 4 guys including samu, uran, henao were together with quintana and the rest was dropped. the first 3 of those at least known classical riders. purito was first and is also good in classics. I'm not going to say here that quintana is a future lbl winner, because that is doubtful. but he definitely has shown a lot more than pinot in the classics.
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06 Dec 2012 09:44

i have to agree with ryo's last 2 posts. quintana might not have been the second best but he was in the group of the second best riders. which is much more then anything pinot has ever shown on a classic.

and gilbert could have definitively contend for the win had he not crashed. after the muro there was still 50k of racing left with only 2 climbs and 1 of those suited gilbert to perfection, so saying he was out of contention for being dropped on the muro, where he didn't even lose that much time, is a bit of a stretch imo.

and quintana could very well win a lbl in the future, he will probably have to do it the same way schleck did in 09 or nibali tried this year but it is possible. hell if not for a super strong astana and iglinsky on what very likely will be the best performance of his career nibali would have done it and it would have been the second time in 4 years some1 won solo all the way from the Roche aux faucons.
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07 Dec 2012 18:13

Froome

Algarve - Tirreno-Adriatico - Tour

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/froome-i-never-rode-against-wiggins


Presumably Wiggins will try to defend his Paris-Nice title which might well be his only serious target pre-Giro.
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07 Dec 2012 21:34

Capechi Movistars leader for the Giro going for a top 10 and also wants a top 10 in MSR which he calls the best of the one day races.


http://www.biciciclismo.com/cas/wai/noticias-ficha.asp?id=57738

Hopefully hell live up to it, but i had been hoping for Quintana or even Valverde (unlikely i know) to give a go.
The Hitch: Winner 2013 Vuelta cq game. Winner, Velorooms prediction game 2012, 2013. 2nd all time cq rankings.
The Father of Clean Cycling, Christophe Bassons wrote:When I look at cycling today, I get the impression that history is repeating itself: riders who are supposed to be rouleurs are climbing passes at the front of the race, and those who are supposed to be climbers are riding time trials at more than 50 kilometres per hour.

The story is beginning again, just as it did 14 years ago


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07 Dec 2012 21:38

Parrulo wrote:i have to agree with ryo's last 2 posts. quintana might not have been the second best but he was in the group of the second best riders. which is much more then anything pinot has ever shown on a classic.

and gilbert could have definitively contend for the win had he not crashed. after the muro there was still 50k of racing left with only 2 climbs and 1 of those suited gilbert to perfection, so saying he was out of contention for being dropped on the muro, where he didn't even lose that much time, is a bit of a stretch imo.

and quintana could very well win a lbl in the future, he will probably have to do it the same way schleck did in 09 or nibali tried this year but it is possible. hell if not for a super strong astana and iglinsky on what very likely will be the best performance of his career nibali would have done it and it would have been the second time in 4 years some1 won solo all the way from the Roche aux faucons.


Be careful Parrulo, theyoungest might call you a Calimero any time soon now.

And yeah Quintana could very well win LBL in the future, but I can say the same about every promising young rider(that can climb of course). Cycling is unpredictable in that regard. I was actually having some fun with Ryo because I remember he said Lombardia was too hard for Phil last year as well because he only got 8th. He also completely ignored the fact that Phil had already reacted on an attack of Nibali, so only looked at the result. I call that hypocrisy.

And that's even ignoring the obvious: Phil was no longer in top shape and only rode Lombardia to win the WT for himself and the team. It's all in his book.

But my real point is: descending is also very important in Lombardia, so just because someone is slightly less good on the Muro di Sormano doesn't mean he's overall worse at the race than let's say Quintana. And like you said, the final hills suited a rider like Gilbert better than the Muro di Sormano. I like to compare the Sormano to the Koppenberg of the Ronde van Vlaanderen: too far from the finish to decide the winner, but you can definitely lose the race on them(for example Cancellara in '09). However, Gilbert wasn't far back at all and had already caught and dropped everyone on the descent. But whatever, they're allowed to think what ever the hell they want. I'd rather see Phil win LBL, the WC or the Ronde van Vlaanderen anyway.
Ryo Hazuki wrote:horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato


The Hitch wrote:Goss will woop boonens candy a[color="Black"]ss[/color] in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
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07 Dec 2012 22:37

El Pistolero wrote:Be careful Parrulo, theyoungest might call you a Calimero any time soon now.

And yeah Quintana could very well win LBL in the future, but I can say the same about every promising young rider(that can climb of course). Cycling is unpredictable in that regard. I was actually having some fun with Ryo because I remember he said Lombardia was too hard for Phil last year as well because he only got 8th. He also completely ignored the fact that Phil had already reacted on an attack of Nibali, so only looked at the result. I call that hypocrisy.

And that's even ignoring the obvious: Phil was no longer in top shape and only rode Lombardia to win the WT for himself and the team. It's all in his book.

But my real point is: descending is also very important in Lombardia, so just because someone is slightly less good on the Muro di Sormano doesn't mean he's overall worse at the race than let's say Quintana. And like you said, the final hills suited a rider like Gilbert better than the Muro di Sormano. I like to compare the Sormano to the Koppenberg of the Ronde van Vlaanderen: too far from the finish to decide the winner, but you can definitely lose the race on them(for example Cancellara in '09). However, Gilbert wasn't far back at all and had already caught and dropped everyone on the descent. But whatever, they're allowed to think what ever the hell they want. I'd rather see Phil win LBL, the WC or the Ronde van Vlaanderen anyway.



Didnt Gilbert crash through his own fault? He crashed becasue he was trying to catch up with and then distance the peloton.

Theres a difference between crashing cos the person in front of you did, or because your wheel punctured or because someone threw a bottle on the road, and crashing because you are deliberately using the descent to get an advantage.

Losing because your descending skills were not that great is the same as losing because your climbing was not so great an ability thing. You yourself felt no sympathy for Nibali afterall when Gilbert won in 2010.
The Hitch: Winner 2013 Vuelta cq game. Winner, Velorooms prediction game 2012, 2013. 2nd all time cq rankings.
The Father of Clean Cycling, Christophe Bassons wrote:When I look at cycling today, I get the impression that history is repeating itself: riders who are supposed to be rouleurs are climbing passes at the front of the race, and those who are supposed to be climbers are riding time trials at more than 50 kilometres per hour.

The story is beginning again, just as it did 14 years ago


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07 Dec 2012 22:56

The Hitch wrote:Didnt Gilbert crash through his own fault? He crashed becasue he was trying to catch up with and then distance the peloton.

Theres a difference between crashing cos the person in front of you did, or because your wheel punctured or because someone threw a bottle on the road, and crashing because you are deliberately using the descent to get an advantage.

Losing because your descending skills were not that great is the same as losing because your climbing was not so great an ability thing. You yourself felt no sympathy for Nibali afterall when Gilbert won in 2010.


I haven't seen Phil fall, so how could I judge? It's true, he could've crashed because he took too many risks. Perhaps he just wanted to do something special that day in his rainbow jersey, who's to say? All I know is that the race is not too hard for him to win.

Though Gilbert's descending skills are definitely great. ;)

If you take more risks you're more likely to crash than someone's who's cautious. If I remember correctly Nibali crashed while sitting on Phil's wheel trying to overtake him. Phil was at the head of the race while he crashed in 2012. Though no footage, so we don't really know what happened. Weather has something to do with it I suppose(same as in 2010).

I'm not really sympathizing for Gilbert here. Jrod deserved to win and he did. Plus I'm not a greedy fan, his WC win was good enough for me. ;)
Ryo Hazuki wrote:horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato


The Hitch wrote:Goss will woop boonens candy a[color="Black"]ss[/color] in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
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11 Dec 2012 10:13

Sky's lineup for TDU: EBH, Sutton, G, Hayman, Eisel, Rowe, Stannard.

I'm very surprised EBH is going, after Beijing he said that he'd start the 2013 season later since he had as long a season as one can have in 2012 (start in TDU, end in Beijing). I don't know if he's changed his mind or if he's being "forced".

I really think he should have started in Qatar or Oman instead. Not only are they better preparation for the classics, but they'd also bring more opportunities to get victories. In TDU there are lots of Australians who for some reason peak for the TDU (only to get the rest of the season ruined - see Matthews every year) so it's hard for foreigners to do much.
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11 Dec 2012 10:17

maltiv wrote:Sky's lineup for TDU: EBH, Sutton, G, Hayman, Eisel, Rowe, Stannard.

I'm very surprised EBH is going, after Beijing he said that he'd start the 2013 season later since he had as long a season as one can have in 2012 (start in TDU, end in Beijing). I don't know if he's changed his mind or if he's being "forced".

I really think he should have started in Qatar or Oman instead. Not only are they better preparation for the classics, but they'd also bring more opportunities to get victories. In TDU there are lots of Australians who for some reason peak for the TDU (only to get the rest of the season ruined - see Matthews every year) so it's hard for foreigners to do much.


2011 Tour Down Under:

Gossie in smoking form. Keeps winning in Paris-Nice and finally in the big one: Milan-San Remo.

2012 Tour Down Under:

Gerrans in smoking form. Wins Milan-San Remo.
Greipel wins 3 stages Down Under. Later wins 3 stages in the Tour.

2012 Tour de San Luis:

Boonen wins a stage and keeps on winning races till Paris-Roubaix.
Nibali did a decent time trial there. Wins Tirreno-Adriatico and was great in Milan-San Remo.

Maybe Matthews just isn't a very good cyclist yet?
Ryo Hazuki wrote:horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato


The Hitch wrote:Goss will woop boonens candy a[color="Black"]ss[/color] in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
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11 Dec 2012 10:26

Greipel had the same problem for most of his career. Stellar form in Australia, okay but not great the rest of the year.

It's a bit ridiculous to already include Matthews in the list of TDU failings... the guy is 22 years old for crying out loud. This year he crashed hard in the first stage of Tirreno and saw his classics season ruined (but of course maltiv only cares about injuries to mister Boasson Hagen).
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11 Dec 2012 10:26

El Pistolero wrote:2011 Tour Down Under:

Gossie in smoking form. Keeps winning in Paris-Nice and finally in the big one: Milan-San Remo.

2012 Tour Down Under:

Gerrans in smoking form. Wins Milan-San Remo.
Greipel wins 3 stages Down Under. Later wins 3 stages in the Tour.

2012 Tour de San Luis:

Boonen wins a stage and keeps on winning races till Paris-Roubaix.
Nibali did a decent time trial there. Wins Tirreno-Adriatico and was great in Milan-San Remo.

Maybe Matthews just isn't a very good cyclist yet?

Gerrans and Goss both had the same problem: when the next monuments came around, they had no form. Same with Valverde last year, who was out of gas in the ardennes. And Boonen obviously doesn't have to be in top shape to win a sprint stage of San Luis.

Matthews isn't a very good cyclist, no, but he's clearly much better in TDU than in any other race of the season. I'm just saying that the guys who peak for TDU traditionally can't keep the form until the cobbled classics or the ardennes.
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11 Dec 2012 10:29

maltiv wrote:Gerrans and Goss both had the same problem: when the next monuments came around, they had no form. Same with Valverde last year, who was out of gas in the ardennes. And Boonen obviously doesn't have to be in top shape to win a sprint stage of San Luis.

Matthews isn't a very good cyclist, no, but he's clearly much better in TDU than in any other race of the season. I'm just saying that the guys who peak for TDU traditionally can't keep the form until the cobbled classics or the ardennes.


I'm sure they cared after having won the biggest race in their career. :rolleyes:

Besides, Gossie is known as someone who likes to go out. I'm sure he did plenty of that after his Milan-San Remo win. Plus he got sick somewhere before Gent-Wevelgem.

Valverde came back after a 1.5 year suspension, he's not a great example for your point.

Matthews couldn't keep up in the cobbled classics regardless of how he does in the Tour Down Under. He's still young.
Ryo Hazuki wrote:horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato


The Hitch wrote:Goss will woop boonens candy a[color="Black"]ss[/color] in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
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12 Dec 2012 10:33

Cancellara is like The Black Album. Really good but way overrated.
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