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Who is next to dominate GT's?

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12 Dec 2012 07:07

Jason_Mercier wrote:He's 22 years. His trajectory is not the right way for be a superchampion?


No one knows so far. The step he made is much less than the step he should make in order to become a superchampion. History knows many more examples when someone couldn't realize his potential being perspective. I just pointed Talansky 'cos IMO TT is getting more and more valueable skill no matter how hard climbs are. I fear Pinot is an anti time trialist like all frenchmen. To gain a lot of time in mountains is overly difficult nowadays. It is just impossible being alone. One always should have a man to cooperate. Climbing level is being levelled off.
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12 Dec 2012 09:01

Jason_Mercier wrote:Pinot has to prove a lot? The youngest winner of Valle D' Aosta in amateurs. The youngest winner of the history. Tour of Romandia mountain classification in his first year as pro. Also in a breakway in the Dauphiné Liberé and finished top 20 in the final GC with 20 years. In 2011 (with 21 years) four wins and the GCs of Settimana Lombarda and Tour of Alsacia. Also shone one more time in Dauphiné specially in the Toussuire stage where he finished second after Joaquim Rodríguez and ahead of Evans, Gesink or Vinokourov. Ah. He was in the breakway this day. This year a bad beginning of season due to too much races in a short period of time. Even with that he was with the best climbers in Suisse. Then in the TDF a stage win after 50 kms to make the breakway dropping and ****ing the asses of guys like Kiserlovski, Kruivswijk, Mollema, Gallopin one by one and Kessiakoff in the last climb. The best climber in the Alps. Consistency in the Pyrenées. Only one bad day in all the race. The youngest top ten of the race since Raymond Impanis in 1947. (He didnt have a set up to come to the TDF. FDJ decided to include him in the nine one week after the race.) Then he made an exhibition in the last stage of the Tour L'Ain attacking from 30 kms to the finish and winning the stage. It's like in 2008 i am saying "Andy Schleck has to prove a lot" when he was second in the Giro D'Italia with 21 years and the best
young rider in the TDF where he shown amazing climbing skills.


Over the next 12-15 years Pinot will very likely win one or two GT's. I mean recently guys such as Hesjedal, Wiggins, NIbali and Cobo have picked up a trophy and I think the Frenchman has more raw talent than any of those guys. However the gulf between winning one or two GT's to being dominant seems rather big. Not sure Pinot got what it takes. We will see in the next few years. He will likely be exciting to watch in any case.
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12 Dec 2012 10:10

Pinot is à highly gifted climber. I guess it will be beween him and Dombrowski. I'm still ambivalent about Henao. Can he handle steep climbs too? I wonder.
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12 Dec 2012 10:32

Ryo Hazuki wrote:except van garderen sucks at climbing. he will never be a serious force in gt's.


I think he, in a few more years, will be good enough to limit time lost on climbs. He's not going to be an attacking climber. He has a great role model with him in Evans. If he copies Cadel's approach then his climbing might not be too big a problem.
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12 Dec 2012 11:20

Eric8-A wrote:Would anyone here rank Talasnky higher than TJVG?

I did a small comparison of the two riders last year with Teejay coming out on top, but Talansky improved greatly this year.


yes 100% I would rank him way above him as a gt rider.
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12 Dec 2012 11:36

Eric8-A wrote:Would anyone here rank Talasnky higher than TJVG?

I did a small comparison of the two riders last year with Teejay coming out on top, but Talansky improved greatly this year.


Van Garderen's climbing is very bad for a GT rider, don't let that 5th place in the Tour make you forget about that. He'll never win a GT except one with 150 km's of time trialing. At least Talansky showed in the Vuelta he can keep up with the big riders for some time.
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12 Dec 2012 11:41

I can not help wondering why people like to disparage Sky so much. WHY? :cool: Apparently, Tour just didn't satisfy you in terms of spectacle.

The rider is 25 years of age, but according to one's authoritative opinion, he is doomed not to win a GT no matter how he might try. Poor guy. He'd better quit right now...
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12 Dec 2012 11:42

Pentacycle wrote:Van Garderen's climbing is very bad for a GT rider, don't let that 5th place in the Tour make you forget about that. He'll never win a GT except one with 150 km's of time trialing. At least Talansky showed in the Vuelta he can keep up with the big riders for some time.
It's not just about physical talent, brain matters too, and that's not one of Tejay's strengths. Until then, he needs to concentrate in one-week stage races. Talansky is much better in that department, but he's not a force.
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12 Dec 2012 11:53

cineteq wrote:It's not just about physical talent, brain matters too, and that's not one of Tejay's strengths. Until then, he needs to concentrate in one-week stage races. Talansky is much better in that department, but he's not a force.


TJVG can have all the brain he wants, but it won't help him get up longer climbs faster. The only top ten results in the Tour this year were on a shorter climb(Peyragudes) and in TT's. He'll need a Wiggins-like transformation to win the Tour, I don't see that happening anytime soon. Talansky has the mental and physical strength to win a GT, he was the only rider along with Westra who came close to beating Wiggins this year, and he rode a good Vuelta in which Tejay would've cracked big time.
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12 Dec 2012 12:01

Pentacycle wrote:TJVG can have all the brain he wants, but it won't help him get up longer climbs faster. The only top ten results in the Tour this year were on a shorter climb(Peyragudes) and in TT's. He'll need a Wiggins-like transformation to win the Tour, I don't see that happening anytime soon. Talansky has the mental and physical strength to win a GT, he was the only rider along with Westra who came close to beating Wiggins this year, and he rode a good Vuelta in which Tejay would've cracked big time.

What was so great about Talansky's climbing in the Vuelta? He came in minutes behind the favourites, together with guys like Ten Dam and post-legbreak Gesink. Surely Van Garderen could have done the same.
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12 Dec 2012 12:23

I think VG is better climber than Talansky. Super Besse 2011. Croix De Fer and Peyragudes 2012. The only scenary where Talansky has shown a similar level was in the Ancares ascent of the Vuelta. And that's all for me. Maybe Talansky is better TT'er in long distances.
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12 Dec 2012 12:26

Jason_Mercier wrote:I think VG is better climber than Talansky. Super Besse 2011. Croix De Fer and Peyragudes 2012. The only scenary where Talansky has shown a similar level was in the Ancares ascent of the Vuelta. And that's all for me. Maybe Talansky is better TT'er in long distances.


Where he lost to Costa?
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12 Dec 2012 12:29

............................
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12 Dec 2012 12:30

Netserk wrote:Where he lost to Costa?


He was the most agressive that day. Atacked many times and then paid it in the final ascent. But is a good demonstration that he is a good climber.
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12 Dec 2012 12:30

Netserk wrote:Where he lost to Costa?


well i guess we now truly know who will dominate the GT's in the future. costa obviously :cool: after all he only just turned 26 like last month. . .
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12 Dec 2012 12:35

Jason_Mercier wrote:He was the more agressive that day. Atacked many times and then paid it in the final ascent. But is a good demonstration that he is a good climber.


i invite you to watch the stage again. i did, many times. the first selection is made by an attack from costa who then asks for TJVG for a turn which he does (you can see right when the camera catches the front of the break that costa is the one out of the saddle at the front and TJVG is moving to take his turn)

you can also see it when gautier is dropped that it was costa who made the acceleration. (same situation as the first selection)

TJVG was just willing to take bigger turns but his rhythm wasn't the one that caused the other guys to get dropped. TJVG raced stupidly that day taking big turns and sprinting to a KOM sprint costa clearly didn't care about which is why he got dropped hard on a 200 meter long hill.
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12 Dec 2012 12:35

theyoungest wrote:What was so great about Talansky's climbing in the Vuelta? He came in minutes behind the favourites, together with guys like Ten Dam and post-legbreak Gesink. Surely Van Garderen could have done the same.


no he couldn't van garderen sucks at steep climbs. also talansky was the only rider to finish within a minute of quintana in the avenir mountain itt. that vaeraged over 7 watt for quintana! the rest all lost 2 minutes or more
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12 Dec 2012 12:35

Jason_Mercier wrote:He was the most agressive that day. Atacked many times and then paid it in the final ascent. But is a good demonstration that he is a good climber.


Which just shows that he doesn't have the brain to win a GT (just like Andy), and that he should focus on week long stage races.

TJVG has the same GT winning potential as Porte and that is 0.
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12 Dec 2012 12:38

Netserk wrote:Which just shows that he doesn't have the brain to win a GT (just like Andy), and that he should focus on week long stage races.

TJVG has the same GT winning potential as Porte and that is 0.


Porte? When was Porte 5° on a GC of a TDF?
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12 Dec 2012 12:38

Ryo Hazuki wrote:no he couldn't van garderen sucks at steep climbs. also talansky was the only rider to finish within a minute of quintana in the avenir mountain itt. that vaeraged over 7 watt for quintana! the rest all lost 2 minutes or more


also without the time lost with TTT crash he would have been ahead of gesink and pretty close to froome.
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