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Who is next to dominate GT's?

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12 Dec 2012 12:39

Who was Porte in amateurs if we compare him to VG?
User avatar Jason_Mercier
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12 Dec 2012 12:41

Jason_Mercier wrote:Who was Porte in amateurs if we compare him to VG?

Doesn't matter. Both have zero chance to ever win a GT, and is both over-hyped anglos..
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User avatar Netserk
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12 Dec 2012 12:42

Netserk wrote:Which just shows that he doesn't have the brain to win a GT (just like Andy), and that he should focus on week long stage races.

TJVG has the same GT winning potential as Porte and that is 0.
+1 When in Rome?

TJ's brain might be fixable, Andy's seems permanently damaged.
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12 Dec 2012 12:53

Ryo Hazuki wrote:no he couldn't van garderen sucks at steep climbs. also talansky was the only rider to finish within a minute of quintana in the avenir mountain itt. that vaeraged over 7 watt for quintana! the rest all lost 2 minutes or more

Van Garderen is more explosive than Talansky on steep hills. Talansky lost about a minute every time on those walls. Van Garderen as a neo pro got 6th in Valdepeñas. So that evens it out.

What Talansky did in an Avenir TT doesn't matter in this regard. Van Garderen probably could have done the same.
theyoungest
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12 Dec 2012 12:54

He was the winner of Circuito Montañés with 21 years. He was there in Alpe D'Huez Dauphiné 2010 with 22 years. Then showed good climbing skills in this TDF especially in the CDF ascent when the favourites only could stay at Sky wheel. Then in Peyragudes with guys like Valverde or Van Den Broeck. Hes not a superclimber but he can improve in the mountains and challenge for the nexts TDFs.
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12 Dec 2012 12:57

Jason_Mercier wrote:He was the winner of Circuito Montañés with 21 years. He was there in Alpe D'Huez Dauphiné 2010 with 22 years. Then showed good climbing skills in this TDF especially in the CDF ascent when the favourites only could stay at Sky wheel. Then in Peyragudes with guys like Valverde or Van Den Broeck. Hes not a superclimber but he can improve in the mountains and challenge for the nexts TDFs.

If you ask me who could potentially be a better climber, between Van Garderen and Porte, I'm inclined to say Porte. Tejay got dropped like a stone when Porte went full throttle in the Algarve, and in the Dauphiné. The guy is 63 kg, he's really built more like a climber than a time trialist.
theyoungest
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12 Dec 2012 12:58

Potentially. He hasnt demontrated yet. And his trajectory is so irregular.
User avatar Jason_Mercier
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12 Dec 2012 13:00

Jason_Mercier wrote:Potentially. He hasnt demontrated yet. And his trajectory is so irregular.

He hasn't demonstrated yet? How did he not demonstrate it when he dropped Van Garderen on climbs, numerous times?

He just hasn't had a chance to ride for himself in GTs, except for the first time, when he got 7th or something.
theyoungest
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12 Dec 2012 13:02

Nunerous times? Algarve and? Dauphiné? Van Garderen is younger than Richie. Take it in count.
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12 Dec 2012 13:05

You mean Dauphiné 2012? Haha Was Van Garderen in top shape? NO by far. And Richie Porte ride for Sky. VG would be something like Greg Lemond if he would be a member of the friends group of Sky.
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12 Dec 2012 13:08

Jason_Mercier wrote:Who was Porte in amateurs if we compare him to VG?


porte started cycling very late(in his 20) but rode amazingly as soon as he hit the scene. I remember how he hammered the baby giro itt
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12 Dec 2012 13:17

Bob Jungels. Surprised he wasn't mentioned (sorry if I missed it, skimmed through but didn't find him)

Some people might think he is an ITT/classics/cobbles kind of rider. But he went to Italy and went up against those skinny Italians. And he found out that he can do it. In Giro del Friuli and Giro della Valle d'Aosta he showed that he can climb with the best. Same in Tour de l'Avenir.

As Ryo Hazuki once famously claimed about another rider - "the guy has no weaknesses!!!!!". Or as Andy Schleck put it - "Maybe in a few years we'll all be riding for him".
piccoli equivoci senza importanza.

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User avatar Christian
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12 Dec 2012 13:19

Jason_Mercier wrote:You mean Dauphiné 2012? Haha Was Van Garderen in top shape? NO by far. And Richie Porte ride for Sky. VG would be something like Greg Lemond if he would be a member of the friends group of Sky.

Okay. I'll give you an instance of Van Garderen in top shape: the Tour de France, Les Belles Filles. Porte went full gas (having formed the bottom of a pile of riders the day before), and Van Garderen went bye-bye.

Christian wrote:Bob Jungels. Surprised he wasn't mentioned (sorry if I missed it, skimmed through but didn't find him)

Some people might think he is an ITT/classics/cobbles kind of rider. But he went to Italy and went up against those skinny Italians. And he found out that he can do it. In Giro del Friuli and Giro della Valle d'Aosta he showed that he can climb with the best. Same in Tour de l'Avenir.

As Ryo Hazuki once famously claimed about another rider - "the guy has no weaknesses!!!!!". Or as Andy Schleck put it - "Maybe in a few years we'll all be riding for him".

Bob Jungels can't climb with the best. He showed that in l'Avenir. If he becomes a GC rider it will be more like Tony Martin.
theyoungest
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12 Dec 2012 13:29

theyoungest wrote:Bob Jungels can't climb with the best. He showed that in l'Avenir. If he becomes a GC rider it will be more like Tony Martin.


IINM he hadn't specifically prepared for l'Avenir, I think he used it more as preparation for another race (WC?) but I could be wrong. IIRC he even said in an interview that it was a pity to come to such a great race and not compete for the win. Plus you must also consider that in the National Events he never really had a team
piccoli equivoci senza importanza.

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User avatar Christian
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12 Dec 2012 13:44

Christian wrote:Bob Jungels. Surprised he wasn't mentioned (sorry if I missed it, skimmed through but didn't find him)

Some people might think he is an ITT/classics/cobbles kind of rider. But he went to Italy and went up against those skinny Italians. And he found out that he can do it. In Giro del Friuli and Giro della Valle d'Aosta he showed that he can climb with the best. Same in Tour de l'Avenir.

As Ryo Hazuki once famously claimed about another rider - "the guy has no weaknesses!!!!!". Or as Andy Schleck put it - "Maybe in a few years we'll all be riding for him".


LOL. jungels can't climb well at all. in that italian race you said he was in a solo effort when he was already long gone in gc, because he can't keep up with the real ones. he could become great classical rider
User avatar Ryo Hazuki
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12 Dec 2012 13:58

Christian wrote:IINM he hadn't specifically prepared for l'Avenir, I think he used it more as preparation for another race (WC?) but I could be wrong. IIRC he even said in an interview that it was a pity to come to such a great race and not compete for the win. Plus you must also consider that in the National Events he never really had a team

Bob Jungels is an allrounder, and he can indeed climb a bit, but he's on the wrong side of 70 kgs to ever be a GT contender. He was nowhere near the best climber in the U23s.
theyoungest
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12 Dec 2012 15:16

Ok maybe Jungels will become a good GT rider if he improves him climbing and really focuses on it but there is a big difference between podiuming a Grand Tour and dominating the stuff. He has never shown he has the potential to dominate on the climbs.
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12 Dec 2012 16:29

If we are talking about Jungels climbing ability lets not forget that Matthews finished Avenir in top10 (with extremeley great field). He's far from being climber and always was, inst he ? But he's pure talent with big engine and that was enough to compete with real climbers. Same goes to Lecuisinier who won Ronde d'Isard with 68kgs at the age of 19.
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12 Dec 2012 17:18

This is my current ranking in order of GT potential talents: Quintana, Pinot, Talansky, ... , Joey D, TJ, Bardet, Jungels

Pinot & Quintana are the closest to equal. There are arguements for both. I rank Talansky so high because he can climb & TT. Pinot is a weaker TT'er and I'm not sure about Quintana.
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12 Dec 2012 17:39

pinot could perhaps never win a gt, because his itt is so horrendous and his position on the bike is also very bad. he reminds me in many weays physically of andy schleck.
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